Hello All,
I read all the posts before I attended Choices. I wanted to share my perspective on the organization. I was a long term hold out; I was set on not attending. I reconsidered when I thought to myself – “I’ve spent thousands of dollars on a Bachelor and Masters degrees, I’m successful in my professional life why would I hesitate to invest in my personal life?” Another point I considered was; did I believe I was living life to the fullest? I determined I was not. Therefore, I went for it and attended Choices. I can say today that I’m 100% satisfied with my decision. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

One sticking point for me before I attended was; could this be a cult?

On the other side looking back – NO.

According to Mr. Rick Ross’ site (http://www.culteducation.com/faq.html) and Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton a cult is characterized by:
1) A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
2) A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
3) Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

I PERSONALLY would add a 4th: lead you away from your family and loved ones.

Quickly:
1) “A charismatic leader” – this point is not valid there were many leaders in my session and I found none of them terribly charismatic. There was no worship.
2) There was no thought reform (http://www.culteducation.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html) based on Mr. Lifton’s writings.
3) On this point I have to say that Choices is honest, it in the business to assist people to get more out of life.
4) This was the most important for me – I found that Choices in no way turned anyone away from their family or loved ones in reality it did the opposite and taught me how to love those around me and myself to a greater extent.

This is one person’s insight I have hope everyone finds their own answer.

Wow..... lots of interesting views about Choices.

I attended Choices about three years ago. It gave me some tools that make it easier to make and maintain changes in my life. Those changes have helped me to have more open, honest and loving relationships with my family (none of whom have attended Choices, nor are they likely to), and with my friends, coworkers, and people I encounter out there in the world. More importantly, it has helped me to improve my relationship with myself.

I have returned to coach a couple of times, and will undoubtedly do so again. I value the opportunity to make a positive difference in someone else's life.

Choices Seminars challenged me to take a very honest look at myself in deeply emotional ways. I went because I trusted the man who invited me. I have never enrolled anyone else, nor do I feel any pressure to do so.

I found Thelma Box to be a very insightful, compassionate and caring woman who pulls no punches and brooks no BS. I have seen many miracles occur at Choices, where people show up broken and defeated, and leave with a sense of power and purpose. Some of them stop using the tools and go back to their old ways. Not everyone wants to keep doing the work. It ain't easy. I continue to use the tools, and I continue to grow.

Choices didn't change my life........ I did that. Choices just gave me some effective tools.

It remains one of the best gifts I have ever given myself.

Hi everyone,

I have posted a few times on this site about Choices Seminars. My views on Choices have evolved over the four years since I went to Choices, Givers I, and Givers II, and the two years since I coached. You can see those views change with some of my posts. I posted a few times to this thread, so you can certainly see how my thoughts have changed over time:

[forum.culteducation.com]

I no longer think that it is a good idea for anyone to attend Choices, bear with me for a few paragraphs and I'll explain why. I consider myself to be a fairly strong-minded individual but I am embarassed to say that Choices got inside my mind and changed it. I believed the change to be entirely good, and much of it was good, but some of the change was outright dangerous and harmful. The harm outweighed the good. Four years later I look back and wish I had not gone through Choices. Perhaps I would not have had to go through the pain of undoing some of those "mind changes." And when those changes come undone, it hurts twice as much as when the changes are introduced.

The problem with Choices is that it is pseudo-science, and relying on unproven philosophies in a psychological setting is not only unprofessional, it is unethical. I do not mean that it is somewhat scientific but still somehow works, I mean that it partially relies on proven psychological methods and partially relies on unproven techniques and philosophies, and the end can be dangerous.

One of those philosophies is the idea that "there are no accidents," or that some higher power is working within the Choices room. The coaches and leaders at Choices believe that the coincidences that are seen at Choices Seminars are not coincidences, but rather the influence of a divine or higher power - and if there are non-believers volunteering, they silently go along with this idea. Perhaps because they feel it does not harm, perhaps they don't want to speak up. I'm not writing this to question anyone's belief in a supreme deity, but no study has successfully linked earthly occurrences to fate or divine will. Everything that ever occurs that appears to be a coincidence has been shown to be just that. Rather than an occurrence happening with a meaning, our minds are excellent at finding meaning to match an occurence. Our minds are also blind to the occurrences that did not happen, so it becomes difficult to compare occurrences to non-occurrences. In the end we look and find reason whether it's real or not.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about "finding the value in all things," that is a good human quality for which we all should strive. I'm talking about attaching coincidences to an unknown power. Things like: My Choices roommate is an actor and I've always been interested in that, this can't be a coincidence! Never mind that she's also an alcoholic and you don't touch the stuff, or that you lost your mother young and it devastated you and her mother is alive and well, and that she loves peanut butter and the smell of it will make you vomit. We find links. We are all human, there are plenty of commonalities amongst any two of us.

Whether you believe in predetermination, divine will, or fate is irrelevant. The issue is that untrained individuals are pushing people into a vulnerable psychological state and then introducing ideas such as fate and non-coincidence (which has no proven background, in fact has been disproven) when the Choices participants are likely to believe it. This is the equivalent of seeing a naturopath instead of an oncologist, or seeking out an alchemist instead of a pharmacist. Professionals base their actions on the results of repeatable and proven scientific studies. Psychologists do this, Social Workers do this, Choices coaches are not trained to do this and they don't do it. Not only are they not trained to rely on the output of scientific studies, they actively teach the opposite of what those studies have found.

A person could argue that those studies are incomplete or don't show the spiritual side of human beings. The natural counter argument to that is, yes you may be correct, but that does not mean it is okay to push whatever unproven idea is convenient. In this case the false ideas are non-coincidence, predetermination, or fate. We certainly don't know more than we do know, if that makes sense. But that doesn't make it okay to take stabs to fill in the blanks of what we don't know, and then run with those assumptions. There are infinite possibilities of answers, it's unlikely we have the right one when we do this.

One simple question remains. Would I allow someone to work with my mind that has no background or psychological training in doing so, and teaches ideas that are false? No. This is unethical behaviour on their part.

So what happens when a person leaves Choices believing these falsehoods and runs into a life-occurence for which no reason can be found? Say a mass murder, a horrible accident, the severe illness of a loved one? What then? What does that do to the false belief structure that has been built in the person's mind, and how does the mind react when that structure crumbles? I can tell you from personal experience that it's not pretty. And this problem or backlash alone should be enough to keep people away from Choices.

Go to trained professionals with your problems - people that have professional institutions and and codes of conduct to which they much adhere. If you still want to go to Choices, take what's good and ditch the garbage information and beliefs while you're there. And it's not all bad stuff at Choices. Some of it is good.

bananas

I see most of these posts are several years old, so I want to be sure to have some current information on here!

I recently attended Choices Seminars and have nothing but positive feedback to share. I first learned about Choices several years ago when friends / previous co-workers from the police department were sent by the city as personal / professional development. Over the years following their attendance, I have observed some WONDERFUL changes in their lives ... improved marriages, positive career changes, promotions, and overall happier lives. The pricetag held me back, but my friends wanted this FOR me, so they got together and paid my fee. WHAT A GIFT!!! If this is a cult, I sure wish I would have "joined" a long time ago! The alleged "veil of secrecy" ... honestly ... if I shared MY experience, it would very possibly be misleading. Choices is geared to the individual - every person walks away with their own experience. It saddens me that people who have not been through the seminar - or who have limited experience with it - make such damning remarks about Thelma (who DOES genuinely care about those who attend) and about Choices. This is a POSITIVE, life-changing seminar for those who attend and participate fully. You get what you give - if you refuse to participate, of course you're going to get nothing out of it. But how can improved/saved marriages, restored family ties and other positive life-changes be compared to cult activity? Cults BREAK those ties, they don't help you repair them. And as far as the person who attached the labels of "drug abusers," "losers," etc. ... may I just say, "He who is without sin, throw the first stone." We all have a past, and that's where it should stay. We also all have a future ... I choose to make the best of mine! :)

Litlmissy:

You are not really here for discussion, but rather apology and promotion of your group.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Most mass marathon training groups like "Choices Seminars" have the same problems.

1. They lack adequate participant-selection criteria.

2. They lack reliable norms, supervision, and adequate training for leaders.

3. They lack clearly defined responsibility.

4. They sometimes foster pseudoauthenticity and pseudoreality.

5. They sometimes foster inappropriate patterns of relationships.

6. They sometimes ignore the necessity and utility of ego defenses.

7. They sometimes teach the covert value of total exposure instead of valuing personal differences.

8. They sometimes foster impulsive personality styles and behavioral strategies.

9. They sometimes devalue critical thinking in favor of "experiencing" without self-analysis or reflection.

10. They sometimes ignore stated goals, misrepresent their actual techniques, and obfuscate their real agenda.

11. They sometimes focus too much on structural self-awareness techniques and misplace the goal of democratic education; as a result participants may learn more about themselves and less about group process.

12. They pay inadequate attention to decisions regarding time limitations. This may lead to increased pressure on some participants to unconsciously "fabricate" a cure.

Groups were determined to be dangerous when:

1. Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change.

2. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to create or force a breakthrough in every participant.

3. Leaders had an evangelical system of belief that was the one single pathway to salvation.

4. Leaders were true believers and sealed their doctrine off from discomforting data or disquieting results and tended to discount a poor result by, "blaming the victim."

See [www.culteducation.com]

This research paper by a sociologist explains coercive persuasion techniques, which are often employed by mass marathon training groups.

The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:

1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance

2. The use of an organized peer group

3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified
Robert Lifton labeled the extraordinarily high degree of social control characteristic of organizations that operate reform programs as their totalistic quality (Lifton 1961). This concept refers to the mobilization of the entirety of the person's social, and often physical, environment in support of the manipulative effort. Lifton identified eight themes or properties of reform environments that contribute to their totalistic quality:

1. Control of communication

2. Emotional and behavioral manipulation

3. Demands for absolute conformity to behavior prescriptions derived from the ideology

4. Obsessive demands for confession

5. Agreement that the ideology is faultless

6. Manipulation of language in which cliches substitute for analytic thought

7. Reinterpretation of human experience and emotion in terms of doctrine

8. Classification of those not sharing the ideology as inferior and not worthy of respect

Unfreezing is the first step in eliciting behavior and developing a belief system that facilitates the long-term management of a person. It consists of attempting to undercut a person's psychological basis for resisting demands for behavioral compliance to the routines and rituals of the reform program. The goals of unfreezing are to destabilize a person's sense of identity (i.e., to precipitate an identity crisis), to diminish confidence in prior social judgments, and to foster a sense of powerlessness, if not hopelessness. Successful destabilization induces a negative shift in global self evaluations and increases uncertainty about one's values and position in society. It thereby reduces resistance to the new demands for compliance while increasing suggestibility.

Destabilization of identity is accomplished by bringing into play varying sets of manipulative techniques. The first programs to be studied utilized techniques such as repeatedly demonstrating the person's inability to control his or her own fate, the use of degradation ceremonies, attempts to induce reevaluation of the adequacy and/or propriety of prior conduct, and techniques designed to encourage the reemergence of latent feelings of guilt and emotional turmoil.3. They fail to adequately consider the "psychonoxious" or deleterious effects of group participation (or] adverse countertransference reactions.

I have been communicating with an EX LGATS (MJB SEMINARS) person who has gone through a lot of stress from the brainwashing type of Psychotherapy techniques that all these LGATS use.
I advised them to go to a Psychologist to help them overcome the damage done to their thinking processes and the confidence stripping way the LGAT staff make their victims think they are failing if they do not follow the "teachings" "training"etc of the Group Leader.
Anything that goes wrong in a followers life is blamed on the follower "not doing it right"., or being negative etc etc.

The first Psychologist the EX LGATS person went to, did not understand the effect involvement in a LGATS has on a person.

When I told her to contact the Mental Health Commission in our State Government, (Australia) they were able to receive advice and help, to arrange appointments with a Psychologist who had understanding of their emotional condition.
I dont know if they have a Mental health Division in the Government services in your state in America, but I would suggest if they do, that your family member approach them and ask for referral to a Psychologist who has had dealings with victims of LGATS like CHOICES, Landmark Forum, EST, ISA etc.
They would have a good idea of who has dealt with cases like that as there has been litigation in the Courts from people who have been harmed by these irresponsible money grubbing LGATS.

Dont give up, keep letting people know about your concerns regarding CHOICES targetting of Native Americans.

Contact every Politician who will listen to your information.

Contact Mental Health in your State.

Try to obtain copies of any written paperwork that the CHOICES hand out to participants.

Write down every bit of information you can gather.

Try asking on the Internet for anyone who has had a bad experience with CHOICES.

I put advertisements into a local free trading newspaper, (using a post box number for privacy), for persons who had a bad experience with the LGATS.

You could try putting posters up at local stores asking for anyone who was concerned about the CHOICES LGATS to contact you via a postbox number.

You may be only one person to start off with, but if you persevere you will find there are others out there who are worried about what is happening to their loved ones, and there will be people who have been hurt by CHOICES, who will contact you.

If you use a website like Rick Ross and protect your privacy, you can receive email contact diverted through the website. Use a created "member" name so you protect your privacy.
Dont name/identify any of your family, and if you get any information, protect the persons privacy by changing their NAME, GENDER and any information that could identify them to other CHOICE members , if you are posting any of the information on internet Anti Cult sites

This will protect your (CHOICES) family members and any other (CHOICES) informants you have, from pressure/harrassment within, or from, the CHOICES LGATS.

I had postings on the Virtual Gumshoe Internet site, which is for investigators and debt collectors etc, and when I asked for information on the Founder of MJB SEMINARS
I received replies from people who had bad experiences with MJB SEMINARS.

This gave me a greater insight into what they are doing to people, as I was able to gather copies of paperwork used in the Seminars and a lot of firsthand information from EX followers.

Stay strong and dont ever give up, as your family and your people are worth fighting for.

One small candle may not give much light in the darkness, but when others start to listen and join in, then changes can happen.

I went through Choices 5 years ago now. I do not advise people to go, and if someone asked me about it I would tell them not to go but to spend their time and money on counselling.

Before Choices I was a regular person with a few problems and a clear grasp that not everything was meant to be understood. The Choices experience worked on me . . . for a while. I went to Givers I and II, thought it was awesome. I even went back and coached. I believed that there was hope, that somehow life was going to be great from there on. Well it wasn't, and it came crashing down hard and put me out of commission for quite a while. I saw through the veil created by the brainwashing and I saw Choices for what it was, a funny mixture of psychology, skewed religion, and superstition. The problem is that Choices can create that tragic hope in people like me and then level them when the truth comes thundering down. And yes, I had psychotic episodes because of the collapse - I'm not proud of this but it's been documented as a possible consequence of LGATs that Choices ignores. It took me a year before I was okay again. God does not work in the Choices room. We are pattern-seeking creatures and when we find a connection we like to think there is a cause, but there isn't always a cause. If you put 80 people in a room there are bound to be some connections or similarities. Picking God to be the cause of that is not only BS, it's irresponsible. Putting people into a vulnerable state and suggesting powers working behind the scenes of your highly profitable organization is contemptible. Bringing those influenced people back to be slaves (volunteering is for charities, slaves are for profitable organizations) should be criminal.

Funnily enough, Choices wasn't wholly bad. I have no issue getting in front of 1000 people and talking now. I am far less judgmental, far more forgiving, and far less hard on myself. But the negative possibilities of Choices so strongly outweighs any benefit that I could never recommend it. Go see a counsellor, don't go to Choices.

I am posting here to speak the truth about Choices Seminar. On the agreement to post on this website there is a statement that says I agree 'not to post false, incorrect information', what I'm reading here on this forum, is much of that - FALSE information. What is Choices seminar? It is a program geared to teaching people how to live their best life. Help individuals deal with their issues to solve their own problems. It is an intensive 11-Day (total) seminar giving you the opportunity to change your life for the better. There is no secrecy, deception, peer pressure or coersion. The $2300 per person includes seminar fees & materials, hotel rooms for 8nights stay - it is the cost of the entire 3-part seminar. Figuring rooms at $125/night(with taxes) which is fairly avg. these days - That leaves $1300 seminar fee for 11 days. The cost per day of seminar = $120/DAY. I paid a counsellor for 2 hours of so-called 'counselling' - $160 for 2 HRS !!!! A friend I know who also attended, said, and I quote "I've been in counselling for 20 years! These 5 days here at Chocies has helped me MORE than those ENTIRE 20 years". Chocies has made a huge difference in my life. For me, it has helped me build and restore many relationships and live a much happier life. It has been running for nearly 30 years and helped thousands of people restore relationships, overcome addictions and heal all kinds of abuse suffered in their life. To see some true information about Chioces, visit their actual website at
www.choicesseminars.com
www.choicesseminars.com/testimonials

As far as the Native and Band involvement; there are people from many racial backgrounds that attend. As far as the people posting in reguards to Choices, not one of you have gone and finished. I have.. . and it continues to be a blessing in my life. You do have to be willing to be accountable and take responsibility for your own life however! Anyone looking to live their best life, it is a wonderful opportunity. There are many informational meetings in Alberta, BC and SK about the seminar that are posted on their website.

@gnstewart - There is so much that can be dismantled in your post that I don't know what to say.

First of all, you say "It is a program geared to teaching people how to live their best life. Help individuals deal with their issues to solve their own problems." - I'd be interested in knowing how the people who run Choices seminars know how to teach people to live 'their best life'. What is their training in this field of 'living your best life'? And how do they know what the best life is for each person who participates? Or do they believe that there is one 'best life' that everyone should be living that they know about? How do they 'help' people to deal with their issues when they do no background research into any person who is there, nor do they follow up after the seminar to find out if indeed anyone is really living their 'best life' or dealing with their 'issues'?

Furthermore, there are people who go to such seminars on the recommendation of friends and family are not going there to deal with any issues whatsoever. They may be there out of curiosity, or intrigue, or out of not wanting to offend their friends/family, or perhaps - since these seminars say they are for successful people - to see where they could achieve even more success. It's troublesome that you assume that everyone there is there to deal with 'issues'. I'd be suspicious of going to any place where there is an assumption before you even step in the door that everyone in the room is there to 'deal with their issues' - this just allows people like Choices to create a one-sized-fits-all cookie cutter everyone-is-the-same approach and enforce that view on people - which is what tends to lead to the types of fall out that people are discussing on this forum. How do you and Choices know that the people in the room do not already have a firm grip on dealing with their own lives and solving their own problems? Isn't this a very presumptuous and arrogant perspective to take? Don't you also find it strange that they are doing 'counselling' in a group setting?

Secondly, do you really, honestly, truly believe that in 11 days you can 'change your life for the better'? That, after having lived on a planet for decades that in a short period of time you can totally undo your entire lifetime of understanding of the world? If this is true, you should be deeply frightened if someone can totally change your life in that short a period of time - what exactly do they do to you for this to happen?

You are talking about having attended counseling. Well, it is great for you that choices worked out to be an alternative to that. HOWEVER, I am sure that many people are not going there for any kind of counseling alternative whatsoever. Why should people be subject to counseling-type techniques if they have not signed up for that? In addition, counseling is usually done (or at least it should be) by people who are qualified mental health practitioners, with many years of studying, research and having also been observed and studied themselves to ensure that their own biases and perceptions do not interfere with the client - usually psychologists and such like. From Choices own website the woman who owns the company is: "...a successful Texas business woman. Years spent in successful real estate, hotel and insurance businesses left her wondering why employees and friends practiced behaviors that were self-defeating." What on earth does she know about counseling? In fact, the site says "Thelma Box had a dream for people to use the tools she practiced in business to assist people in living their lives with clarity and passion." Nowhere does it talk about counseling, so if there is anything counseling-like going on at Choices, that is a major red flag and should be very problematic.

Where did Thelma Gold and her crew get their information from that they are charging such a large amount of money for people to access? Who trained them? What techniques are they using? What impact do they have? These are questions that any self-respecting adult should be asking themselves - and the answers to how these large group awareness training work and their impact is widely available on this great invention known as the internet.

Do you really just believe whatever you are told? How can you know that people are living their best lives unless you follow up with them afterwards? Where are these thousands of people whose lives have been helped? What are they doing now? Do you know? Did any of them have any ill effects? Let me answer that question for you: YES clearly because some of them are posting on this website. Any con artist can tell you "Oh I'm so great at what I do and everyone loves me" - they are hardly going to tell you otherwise are they? The key to life is to employ a little critical thinking and to find out for yourself, not just by going by what you think alone but by asking others as well. And posting a link to 'testimonials' is laughable, since a testimonial is always something that extolls/praises. Can you be so naive as to believe that a business will post unfavorable comments on its own website?

In order to know what is true and false, you must go beyond your own subjective understanding and actually look at this wonderful thing that we will call EVIDENCE. It means looking past your own nose and into the real world and actually looking at reality. In this case, evidence is not just what Choices tell you (which business will not tell you that everyone thinks they are wonderful??), but what actually happens in the real world to people as a result of taking these courses. This is what this forum is about. If people are going to courses and experiencing psychological damage as a result, then that's evidence that something is up. If more and more people are experiencing dangerous side effects that they had not experienced before in their lives as a result of taking these courses, that should tell you that something is wrong.

You remind me of someone who has taken drugs and said "Well i really enjoyed it, it was great for me, so if anyone else dies or gets addicted or has a terrible experience while on drug X, that must be because they don't want to be responsible". No, my dear. Some things are objectively bad for one's health and have harmful effects on large numbers of people, as research, evidence and objective real world data and analysis have shown. Just because you have not experienced any ill effects (yet) does not deny that that thing may not be good for someone's health.

I understand that having spent so much money that it is hard for you to see that you may have been duped. That can be extremely difficult to come to terms with. But if people are giving 'false' information on this site, you have to ask what their motive would be for doing so? What's the agenda behind this? Because we just hate Choices? Come on now, let's employ some common sense. I know that Choices teaches you that people complain because they don't want to be responsible, but the truth is people complain when they have been wronged and are upset about it. People generally do not complain unless they have something to complain about. In this case, many people have much to complain about regarding what goes on at Choices and the damage that they inflict on people.

I'd imagine that living your 'best life' would include skills such as being able to listen, to empathize, to ask questions and to actually see where someone may be coming from rather than trashing their (often very upsetting, disturbing and destructive) experiences - all of which you lack. It sounds like you still need some help because without emotional intelligence, which seems to be in short supply from your post, it's hard to go far in life. And I don't need to spend $2300 to know that.