Does anyone have any info pertaining to Klemmer & Associates, a company founded by Brian Klemmer? A number of my friends from church are attending his seminars and are returning with a lot of the same language that i read comes out of PSI and Landmark. I have listened to a cassette series called "The pursuit and practice of personal mastery",by Brian Klemmer and it's all about personal growth, how our beliefe systems are holding us back from our "full potential" etc. I noticed he refers to Tom Willhite as his mentor and friend. I am pretty sure this is the same Tom who founded PSI .Too many of the teachings and "speak" are the same as what i read here are coming from PSI seminars. What deeply disturbs and dismays me is the total absence of critical thinking I see in my friends. It's as if ,whenever I point out to them the concerns I have that this may be mind control, harmful teaching,etc they totally disconect with me. I would also like to point out to anyone interested that Tom Willhite's name appears on a list of students of a man by the name of Alexander Everret. Alexander Everret started a seminar group by the name or Mind Dynamics in the late 60's which went on to become the forerunner of the current human potential/LGAT industry, from what I have learned in my research. There are distinct similarities in the self-hypnosis techniches that Klemmer promotes as "powerfull tools to access inner creativity and find answers to your problems" {loose quote} and the techniques that Alexander Everret promotes as a way to develop est {extra sensory perception} . On Alexander Everret's website, they promote the idea that thru his techniques you can "communicate with the masters of the universe" . From a Judeo-Christian perspective, engaging in these, as Klemmer puts it, "relaxation techniques" and using the "screen of the mind", "workshop" and "Board of Directors" while in this state of what i believe is self hypnosis, is a violation of Biblical teaching. My conclusion at this point is that Klemmer may be one of the "kinder,gentler" if there is such a thing, LGAT's. I do know that they use confrontation, group dynamics, strictly controlled environment, limited bathroom and meal breaks to produce a "breakthrough" I could go on and on here but suffice it to say I am concerned for my friends and would appreciate any input from anyone out there. By the way, they use a lot of Bible quotes and claim to present teaching based on the Bible, which indicates to me they are targeting the christian segment of the population. Thanks in advance for your help

Your very right. Klemmer is a platform for getting people enmeshed in a humanistic philosphy for living live.

The application on my life has created such huge destruction. I chose to enmesh myself in Klemmer and finally came face to face with the destructiveness of this mindset on my life.

Unfortunately it will now cost me large amounts of money and time to sort out and remove the humanism that I allowed to be embedded within my psyche these past two years.

I have been a Christian for over 30 years. What woke me up to what I stepped into in Klemmer was the destruction that was produced across the whole gammit of my life.

I came face to face with how Klemmer seminars slowly moved my mindset over the course of the 4 seminars to a place that I was seeing myself as being able to create in my life what in the past was left in Gods hands to do in my life.

Kleemmer & Associates seminars took my emotional unhealth in my life and manipulated my psyche into seeing myself in the place that I know only God has the right to be in.

The destruction produced in my life has been a sharp reminder in me that I am not God. I do not have the ability to create some things in my life. Yes, I am responsible for myself, and myself alone.

But, when I step into thinking I can change another persons actions towards me by my beingness.

This is getting into dangerous levels of my psyche. These area's are best left in Gods hands, and not mine.

Klemmer & Associates seminars encourage participants to operate in these areas in ways that create relational turmoil with people who do not like the manipulation and control that is disguised in very passive terminology that gets taught in these seminars.

Life has conflicts, and emotional pain. These are the very aspects that people need to look at within themselves to grow up in maturity in relating to others without operating in a selfish mindset.

Unfortunately even though some participants in Klemmer seminars have the emotional health that they are able to apply the tools gained in these seminars in a healthy relational manner with others.

The vast majority of the people that I saw in my time of attending and going through all 4 seminars have been people who have chosen to apply these tools within their relational lives with people in destructive ways. While using the tools from Klemmer in inappropriate and unhealthy ways within the relationships of their lives.

Remember I am a graduate of all 4 Klemmer seminars and for the past 2 years engaged in being a cheerleader of Klemmer seminars.

Now my eyes are wide open and I recognize the emotional unhealthiness of these seminars as I see the unhealth within myself that made me a mark for Klemmer marketing tactics.

Rswinters, thanks for your reply. It would be interesting to some of us to know more of what it was that ,in your words, opened your eyes. Also, are there others who went through the program with? How are they doing as a result ? How is your relationship with them since you withdrew as a promoter of K&A?

Best wishes to you as you seek answers. Mt 6:33. God bless.

After I go to some professional counseling and sort some of the mess out. I will share some.

Right now, its all fresh. This website really openned my eyes to the lies and deceptions that I knew in my gut was present in Klemmer.

Now I know its not just my thinking that is messed up. There is validity to the things I been struggling with around Klemmer.

It is true that many of the seminar companies have embraced the life view that the universe is energy, always was, is and will be and therefore must be God. Perhaps this is not a humanist view, more a universal view. It is true that nearly all of the current personal growth seminar companies were born in the aftermath of Mind Dynamics, and that many of them use some sort of break down break through cycle to achieve an end result of awareness. So, they believe in a different manner than I do, that is a guarantee of freedom in this country. It does not make them a cult.

If a person were to be involved in a cult, would beating them or the cult into sumbission to my beliefs and way of life make me any different?

I have experienced the Klemmer seminars, and I would say that most people approach the seminars without any ability to think critically, and that this was not something done to them in a seminar. Klemmer did not take their ability to think critically away, they never had it to begin with. This is true of the majority of the US, and is true of all of us in some form.

We all use visualization, all day every day, even if we do not admit it or acknowledge it. Creative people, artists, authors and many others have developed this ability to "see" . Using that ability is not hypnosis, in my opinion.

So, we can continue to support our beliefs, point accusations at others and criticize them for not thinking critically. It might be more effective to begin looking for the good things in life and being delighted when we find them. :D

I Said it was influenced by humanism. Which creates a self focus and a narcisstic mindset in most people who seem to embrace it in my opinion.

Read the rest of the feeds and you will see a common theme with this arrogant mindset that seems to be very common with LGAT, Klemmerize, and whatever universal mindset you want ot apply here.

The outcome on a persons life is what is being addressed as identifying mind control, cult, and such.

At least this is my take on what seems to be addressed on this website. I know there is alot more to this than just this.

I may be wrong, but it seems to be along with what is the main theme being used to identify such things.

If I spend a great deal of money and time to go to college to get an education, I guarantee I will listen to hours of arrogant professors, convinced thier way of looking at life is the only way. After I get out and find that my expectations were not met, I did not get the implied or stated promise of a "great job". How much of this experience was this a mind control exercise? How much of my expereince was created by my expectations and choices in the process? Do I then go back and inform everyone I know and meet that the college was a waste of time and do everything I can to stop them from attending? It is widely accepted that if I get good grades and go to college and get an education, my success is highly probable. Yet 90% of college graduates are working in a field other than their degree for less money than expected. What kind of results are Klemmer graduates achieving? Many are dis-satisfied with their experience and many go on to achieve great results in thier lives. A cult? It might seem harsh to make that conclusion.

Mass marathon training is not college.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Mass marathon training often relies upon coercive persuasion or "thought reform" techniques.

See [www.culteducation.com]

There are distinct differences between education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination and thought reform.

See [www.culteducation.com]

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Timberline
I have experienced the Klemmer seminars, and I would say that most people approach the seminars without any ability to think critically, and that this was not something done to them in a seminar. Klemmer did not take their ability to think critically away, they never had it to begin with. This is true of the majority of the US, and is true of all of us in some form.

Point well-taken. What lgats do is take advantage of and enhance the critical-thinking weakness. How can that be considered "personal growth"? Personal growth is just the sales pitch, and there's even an appearance that it's what the attendees get, but in fact they get just the opposite. Whatever critical thinking they went in with is significantly reduced, if not totally obliterated, when they walk out.

Okay folks lets get this cleared out of the way before I explain what I am going to share here. I chose to attend seminar, I chose to sign waivers, I chose to participate, I chose, I chose. The list could go on.

I am not removing my responsibility here.

When I went through the second seminar called Advance Leadership Training I was placed in a situation where I was teamed up with a buddy for the whole four days where I had to work through a strong negative judgement I held for this guy.

So we are on the same page. This was my judgement that I held. This man was illegally married to two women in Utah with about 10 kids between the two. His first wife was also in attendance at this seminar and was sharing her struggles with her husband choice of getting married to a second women. This has been the situation for years at this point in time.

I struggled with this mans choice to break the laws of the land and ignore them by living what is very clearly a illegal lifestye in our nation.

Yet, I was on the emotional ride of these seminars and took on the challenge to not be in judgement of this mans behavior. I did arrive at a place of loving and accepting this man as a human being and we are still good friends now. Although I still hold my judgement of his illegal behavior. I just learned to love the man and and not his behavior.

Well, to expand on this. When I went to the 3rd seminar that is 5 days. This man not only was in attendance, but he brought both of his wives to the seminar.

The man and the second wife were eating up this non-judgemental stuff and trying to get his first wife to embrace this non-judgemental state. She was really struggling with loving her husband as she was his first marriage, and at the same time was struggling with being in a marriage with a husband who has two legal wives (I guess in Utah they know how to get around the legality of it being agianst the law)

The first wife was in extreme turmoil around trying to embrace not being in judgement of her marriage reality. She was really struggling with this.

I had some gut feelings which contradicted what I was hearing in these seminars. Yet, I kept riding the emotional ride all the way through all of Klemmer seminars.

Now I am facing how I was not listening to my gut, and that is where I was wrong. Klemmer has all the whistles and bells to influence you into their mindset that is hard to say no to.

If you don't agree with them. Your being not teachable, your being judgemental. and the response list is never ending in how your wrong for not embracing Klemmer mindset without out question.

I was listening to Brian Klemmer say to a group of volunteer staff that I was a part of that he only hires and keeps staff that will choose to operate with no resistance to the companies requests that he makes of his staff.

All others are fired, or they quit and leave.

I will share more of my experience in Klemmer later. I have several more experiences that did not sit will in me that I want to share in time with you.