A short time ago, someone posted that Dr. Phil was a graduate of est training and via the Oprah show, carried out a weeks-long Landmark-type of seminar.

There is a big difference in what Dr. Phil does\did and what LGATs do. Dr. Phil includes both people involved in a conflict - the "victim", usually the one who is seeking help, and the "perp". His question to the victim "how is that working for you" is always followed by questions to the perp as well. He also explains the responsibility of both parties in the conflict.

In Landmark, depending on the leader, the victim may be verbally abused, and then told to go tell their perp that the victim has been 'running a racket' on the perp. At my LF, there were no couples, no rape victims and rapists, no abusive parents and children - just those who were searching for answers and then blamed for things they were not fully conscious of.

People who consulted on the air with Dr. Phil have follow-up with him, by their own accounts, for multiple sessions. LE's follow up includes progressively expensive seminars, not one-on-one, and most of seminars include a large portion of high pressure sales for upcoming classes.

Landmark does not ask anyone to accept responsibility for crimes commited against them - for example, if a child was sexually absued, if a woman was raped, if someone had a drug addicted sibling, they are not told they are responsible for that.

What people are encouraged to do is to accept responsibility for what they made those events mean and how they have let them affect their lives.

For example, here's what I got out of doing the landmark forum.

I am the youngest of three. Both my sisters were brighter than me. They did well at school and I was always playing catch up. My folks just wanted the best for me, but I felt pressured, like I wasn't good enough. I failed some crucial exams.

I made this mean "I wasn't good enough. I was a failure."

That is what I grew up with my whole life.

After doing Landmark I realised that I wasn't responsible for the pressure I'd felt - my folks just wanted me to do the best I could, to have the chances they never did - but what I was responsible for was telling myself I was a failure. Plus, I got to see that there was no point beating myself up over it. I got to tell my mum and dad that for all these years I'd been blaming them for all the pressure, but that I'd realised this was just my story.

There is a very subtle distinction.

It is not about going to someone who has been a major source of trauma in your life and saying, "you abused me, it was all my fault and I deserved it." It's about going to someone who has been a major source of trauma in your life and saying, "You did, a, b, c and I made it mean x, y and z."

You can still hold people accountable for being a rapist, abuser, drunk, or whatever it is - what you get to do is be free of the meaning you created around those events (which is almost exclusively disempowering).

I hope this is clear

Anyone interested in taking Landmark courses should research this privately owned for-profit company founded by Werner Erhard and now run by his brother, quite carefully before becoming involved.

Landmark, previously known as EST, has a deeply troubled history of bad press, complaints and repeated lawsuits for personal injury.

See the following sections within the Institute database.

[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]

Constant complaints come in to The Ross Institute about Landmark and its programs from families, participants and concerned individuals.

There is no sceintific peer-reviewed and published study, which demonstrates that Landmark has any lasting benefits.

The benefits claimed by Landmark devotees are subjective and/or based upon anecdotal stories and testimonials. They do not represent scientific research.

Companies that have offered Landmark courses to their employees have often come under severe criticism and at times have been sued.

Employees often don't appreciate having a philosophy imposed upon them within a course format through the workplace.

Obviously, each person has his or her own personal philosophy and/or religion, which is a private matter.

Landmark is simply the philosophy of its founder Werner Erhard. And the touted Landmark "technology" is little more than downloading that philosophy (drawn from several sources and not really original) through a mass marathon training program.

And Mass marathon training like Landmark is itself quite controversial.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Such training often includes coercive persuasion techniques.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Based upon its troubled history, constant complaints, lawsuits for personal injuries I would not recommend Landmark to anyone under any circumstances.

Obviously there are much safer less controversial alternatives.

There are college level classes focused upon self-improvement and support groups sponsored through nonprofit community centers, social service agencies, churches etc.

For personal problems and issues, there are licensed mental health professionals that provide counseling one-on-one and/or in group sessions.

Unlike Landmark session leaders these professionals are accountable to State licensing boards, professional associations and typically possess relevant educational credentials and certification.

This is the third post of mine now that has been rebutted by the same stock answer.

I am in danger of becoming like the rrmoderator, replying with a stock comeback of my own.

How many people have done the landmark forum - ever?

How many complaints and lawsuits have there been?

What you've described in your post about growing up is an ordinary situation most people are able to put in perspective without psychotherapy. Lots aren't or don't, however, or the "pressure" is more severe, or there are other circumstances, and they get into some kind of trouble. They can do lots of things, including traditional counselling or therapy. Landmark loves to scoop up these types because they are easily influenced, easy to manipulate, and "thrilled" when they are relieved of the burden they have placed upon themselves through their own misconceptions or exaggerations. They feel so good, that what would be an ordinary benefit of traditional therapy, becomes like a drug "high" in its concentrated, quickie, intense, marathon form. They are likely to become zealots and true believers at this point, whcih is why Landmark can induce them into being unpaid sales reps. (They have to "deal" to support their own habit.)

You have described nothing a traditional therapist doesn't work with on a daily basis. It is the bread-and-butter of regular therapy. And you're not likely to be asked to recruit more patients or do free word-of-mouth advertising. (Or suffer other or worse psychological damage because you were treated by unskilled and uneducated "trainers" or "coaches.")


Ellen

Can anyone document that Dr. Phil actually took EST?

Where is that dcoumented?

Can't verify if he did, but he founded a non-profit in TX that looks rather much like a typical LGAT

[www.pathways-edu.com]

I don't know if Dr. Phil did est or not.
I think he is using a hodge-podge of things, from Behavior therapy, to Encounter Groups, etc etc etc.

He is also obviously a bit of a "jerk" and this may just be to create some Drama for ratings.
He is also obviously an Egomaniac, perhaps even a Narcissist.

[perso.wanadoo.fr]
On this page he is listed as "Other Transformational Encounter Groups".

Perhaps some investigative journalist will turn up some stuff on Dr Phil.
My gut tells me is that he just wants to run a psychological entertainment show.
He must tell himself he is "helping America", but its more like a big EGO trip, and making millions of dollars, in my view.

On the other hand, i think he give good advice, at times.
It would be interesting to see if he is connected to any of these Groups.
He may very well be.

Coz

I don't have any info on Dr. Phil training in EST, but in my search I came across this:

[www.pathways-edu.com]

It seems like he has his own $399 weekend seminar for life improvement.

I've deleted the post that refers to his participation until I find the actual excerpt of an interview with Dr. Phil. I have read quite recently that he was involved with EST, but either returned the book to the library or loaned it out, but can't remember which book it was in. There was a reference to Dr. Phil's Pathways Seminars that he started in 1985 stemming from his EST training.