Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: June 14, 2006 09:36PM

The recent article in the Sunday Times in Australia about the Landmark assault on kids is quite alarming.

[www.culteducation.com]

Health professionals find the program dubious or even dangerous for kids. The same program is being offered all over the US and Canada. What can we do to protect the children against these assaults? Why is this being tolerated in our society?

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: June 15, 2006 03:23PM

It is tolerated because the people who send their kids (who incidently are the only ones who know what goes on other then staff and volunteers) are so caught up in the programme.

There has been no tangible proof presented by any one that this is dangerous. That is what is so scary because I firmly believe the programme is unhealthy but its so carefully kept under wraps and it lives just under the radar so to speak.

I don't believe anything will change until there is a serious incident that is taken out of the parents hands. Parents beleive this works and anything negitive is ignored.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: Dynamix ()
Date: June 15, 2006 05:09PM

Unfortunatly, Rosenberg was much more cunning than Hubbard. I cannot imagine any kind of major incident that could possibly happen that would expose them... anyone who gets damaged or killed is written off as mentally ill. I think in the end though, the same system that supports their growth will ruin it. Quite a few people I invited to meetings said "no" and left me no room to respond at all, which to me is proof that although not really visible, public resistance is there. With every batch that goes through, it's these little stories, these little bad experiences that will add to the resistance until registrations dwindle and fail. The only thing we can do as critics is to tell people to read these stories first, not just sign up on the spot like they say.

I regret that kids have to get caught up in this mess. Childhood is a stressful enough time without adding this to the basket.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Date: June 15, 2006 08:47PM

I read this in the Sunday Times on the weekend.

I was thinking about making a comment here on this article myself.
Unfortunately the children attending these things are enrolled by their parents who already are part of the Landmark system.
What a load of rubbish, those quotes from the Landmark person about what the course brings; more loaded language making no sense at all.
I would call it, "breakthrough to breakdown".
I guess 'getting them while their young' is what they're after.

I have been wondering for a while, after educating myself here about Landmark and its offshoots, whether a presence existed here in my city.
Now I know.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: June 15, 2006 11:19PM

I wonder why the health authorities stay mute on this. Above all, how can parents do this to their own children. Remember these are kids between the age of 8 and 12!


This is the "Health Warning" on the application form to the Landmark Forum for Young People (the form is available through the official Landmark website):

Quote

NOTICE OF IMPORTANT INFORMATION AND HEALTH WARNINGS

You must read the section below carefully and completely.

1. We are pleased that you are going to participate in The Landmark Forum (the “Program”). Many people have found the Program to be an enjoyable and valuable experience. However, the Program is not advisable for everyone. The purpose of this
Notice is to ensure that you are not one of the people for whom this Program may be inadvisable.

We take our responsibility and your safety seriously. Please read each section of this Notice carefully and completely so you can make the right decision for yourself. The recommendations in this Notice have been made by mental health professionals who
advise Landmark Education.

Although the number of people who have experienced serious problems during or after the Program is quite small, you should be certain whether the Program is appropriate for you. If you have any questions, please contact a mental health professional.
We will assume from your participation in the Program and from your declaration at the end of this application that you have a full understanding of each and every paragraph which follows and that you understand our recommendations and will comply
with our instructions.

You and you alone are responsible for your choice to participate in the Program and for your own health and well-being at all times prior to, during and after your participation in the Program.

2. The Program is a unique course of instruction designed to support people in being more effective in realizing their own personal and societal goals. Through a series of philosophically rigorous and open discussions, voluntary sharing of your experience and short exercises, the Program provides an opportunity to explore basic questions that have been of interest to human beings throughout time and to examine many aspects of your own life. In the Program, people come to grips with what it means to be human — not as a mere classroom exercise, but as a rigorous inquiry. The Program offers a unique technology through which people create new possibilities for their lives.

3. In the Program, you will inquire into fundamental issues that have been of interest and concern to us as human beings. The experience of the Program is unique to each individual and there is no way to predict in advance exactly what you may think or feel.
It is normal for some people to experience unwanted or unfamiliar emotions from time to time, such as fear, anger, sadness, regret, hatred, irritation and impatience. For most participants, exploring thoughts and feelings that they have not fully explored before is a
useful and positive learning experience. Some participants have found that exploring life’s issues honestly may evoke uncomfortable and unpleasant feelings. For others, the Program may occur as physically, mentally and emotionally seriously distressing. If you are unwilling to encounter any of these powerful experiences in yourself or in others, or if you have any concern about your ability to deal with such experiences, THE MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WHO ADVISE LANDMARK EDUCATION
(“OUR ADVISORS”) STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program.

4. Some people experience temporary and not seriously consequential stress during and after the Program. For most people, stress is a normal part of everyday life. However, people who have a history of mental illness or serious emotional problems personally
or in their immediate family may be more vulnerable to stress and may experience additional and very severe physical, mental or emotional problems. In people who have physical, mental or emotional problems, even normal amounts of stress from any
source may generate severe physical, mental or emotional problems. If you have any history of mental illness or emotional problems personally or in your immediate family, whether temporary, occasional or intermittent, and whether treated or not, or
have concerns about your ability to handle stress, OUR ADVISORS STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program. If you are uncertain about whether this applies to you, we advise you to discuss this with a
mental health professional before participating in the Program.

5. While it is ultimately your choice, OUR ADVISORS STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU SHOULD NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program if you:

(a) have a personal or family history of bi-polar affective disorder (manic-depressive disorder), schizophrenia, acute or chronicdepression or other psychotic disorder, whether or not you or they are being or have ever been treated or hospitalized;

(b) are taking, have taken or been prescribed to take within the previous twelve months anti-anxiety drugs (such as Librium, Ativan, Klonapin, Xanax, Dormicum or others); anti-depressants (such as Elavil, Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Cipram, Prothiaden or others); anti-psychotics (such as Thorazine, Haldol, Stelazine, Risperdal, Zyprexa, Dogmatil or others); any medication to treat bi-polar disorders (such as Lithium, Gabapentin or Depakote); any drugs or medicines, whether prescription or non-prescription, intended to treat or affect mental processes or mood or to treat a chemical imbalance; or
anabolic steroids;

(c) have an unresolved history of drug or steroid abuse;

(d) are or have in the past year been depressed and/or considered or had ideas of suicide, self-harm or harm to another;

(e) are currently in therapy and your therapist sees a health reason why you should not participate in the Program; or

(f) are uncertain about your physical, mental or emotional ability to participate in the Program.

6. From time to time, during or shortly after participating in the Program, a very small number of people who have no personal or family history of mental illness or drug abuse have reported experiencing brief, temporary episodes of emotional upset ranging
from heightened activity, irregular or diminished sleep, to mild psychotic-like behavior. An even smaller number of people have reported more serious symptoms ranging from mild psychotic behavior to psychosis occasionally requiring medical care and
hospitalization. In less than 1/1000 of 1% of participants, there have been reports of unexplained suicide or other destructive behavior.

While we know of no independent studies to suggest that people who are physically, emotionally and mentally healthy are at risk in the Program, certain persons have claimed that the Program has caused or triggered in them a psychosis or psychotic event.

7. The Program is designed for people who clearly understand they are responsible for their own health and well-being before, during and after the Program. It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not to be used as a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy or health program of any nature, regardless of what you may believe or have heard from anyone. We advise you that the Program Leaders, staff and people who assist at the Program are not mental health professionals and there will not be any mental health professionals in attendance.

8. If you experience any symptoms or suggestion of mental distress in the Program sessions, during the breaks or at the end of any session, or between sessions, you must immediately inform the Program Leader or the Program Supervisor. In such event, you
and the Program Leader will discuss the matter and you will determine what is the appropriate thing for you to do. If you experience any symptoms or suggestions of mental distress outside of the Program, we strongly recommend that you immediately inform a physician or mental health professional.

9. While there are breaks in the Program approximately every 2 to 3 hours, we do not promise that we will always break at precisely that interval. Each day there is one meal break. We suggest that you eat a meal before arriving at the beginning of each
day, and have a third meal or snack after leaving in the evening. If you have a medical condition requiring you to eat or care for some special need more frequently than the regularly scheduled breaks, or need special seating or must stand and stretch
frequently or have any other special needs, please notify the Program Supervisor or Director before the Program begins so that appropriate arrangements can be made.

10. If you have not been feeling well or if you have been meaning to see a physician or a mental health professional for some complaint, symptom or concern, or if you have had difficulty sleeping lately, or been depressed, it is imperative that you consult with a physician or mental health professional prior to your participating in the Program. Upon request, Landmark will provide you with information required to enable you to make an informed decision about your participation.

11. Although the schedule of the Program usually (but not always) accommodates sufficient time for sleeping, some participants have stated that they did not have sufficient time to sleep or were unable to sleep at night before, during or after the Program. Some people have entered the Program without having had sufficient sleep. For some people, lack of sleep can become a serious problem and may be symptomatic of a mental or emotional illness. If in the past you have become (or think that you may
become) ill or seriously distressed because of lack of sleep, OUR ADVISORS STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program. If you do not have sufficient sleep or if you have a sleep disorder during the week
before the commencement of the Program, OUR ADVISORS STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the Program. If during the Program, you feel that you have been unable to sleep or have not had sufficient sleep, you must notify your Program Leader or Program Supervisor at once.

12. If, after your consulting with your medical or mental or health professional, your health professional needs any additional information about the Program in order to resolve your ability to participate, please contact the Registration Fulfillment Manager at the Center delivering this Program who will provide you with such information.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Date: June 16, 2006 03:19AM

thanks for that.

I wish that this form could be sent in to a 'letters to the editor' page of the sunday times newspaper (unfortunately it's too long).

How does this work? are the children supposed to read this form (and understand it!) and sign on the dotted line, or are the parent/s supposed to sign this after reading this?

Which got me wanting to know more....is the child participating in the company of a parent while the course is being run?

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: June 16, 2006 03:44AM

No, the children and parents are not doing the program together. My Forum leader explained that the children's version of the Forum takes less time because they aren't as argumentative, don't waste time and do as they're told. Adults don't interfere. This entire sales pitch for enrolling kids came after we were all ripped to pieces because someone supposedly returned from break three minutes late.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: midonov123 ()
Date: June 16, 2006 04:05AM

Quote
orangeperuviscacha
thanks for that.

I wish that this form could be sent in to a 'letters to the editor' page of the sunday times newspaper (unfortunately it's too long).

How does this work? are the children supposed to read this form (and understand it!) and sign on the dotted line, or are the parent/s supposed to sign this after reading this?

Which got me wanting to know more....is the child participating in the company of a parent while the course is being run?

No. The parents must read and sign up for their children. This is why I ask: How can parents do this to their own children? IMHO, they are irresponsible or blind. They are also Landmark graduates!

Note that the Health Warnings are the same for young or adults. There is also a very strong hidden message saying something like "We have something extraordinary to offer, but it's not for you because you are sick!". But everyone knows being sick is running a racket, right? See how manipulative this is!

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: skeptic ()
Date: June 16, 2006 07:18AM

Quote
Dynamix
I think in the end though, the same system that supports their growth will ruin it.

Are they already on the decline? Where's the gain or investment, exactly, in putting children through it? Children aren't going to get into the business of recruiting, ya think?

It is truly sick (and desperate?) to target children. But I wonder just how damaging it could be, in the long run. I don't mean to imply that the eperience won't be damaging; I think it is inherently damaging. But children, still growing and still open, will likely be influenced and shaped by many other things after the Landmark experience. And, it's not like they're going to stay stuck in Landmuck till adulthood, then run around recruiting everyone they know, re the investment angle.

According to Margaret Singer (_Cults in Our Midst_), " . . . large group awareness training programs . . . ordinarily do not intend to keep their customers for long periods of membership. They prefer that adherents buy more courses and products and bring in more customers ,staying around for perhaps a year or two." This is inapplicable as far as children are concerned. So, is Landmine on the decline? I can only hope.

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Landmark indoctrination for kids!
Posted by: MercurialMere ()
Date: June 17, 2006 02:46AM

It's terrifying to see so many children sucked into Landmark. The following site has testimonials from children and their parents. There are a few links on the left side of the page with several family stories.

[www.ilovepossibility.info]

One mother (in the section about the Leslie family) said the following:

Quote

I am so proud of his breakthrough in overcoming his shyness in the Landmark Forum for Young People. He was asked to do an exercise in relating to strangers which at first he didn’t want to do. [b:a96357b9f4]He wanted then to leave the Landmark Forum. I was tempted to let him off the hook, but I did not[/b:a96357b9f4].

Does anyone else find this to be incredibly sad?

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