A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
midonov123
()
Date: May 16, 2006 08:28PM
Quote
automaticftp
Well. Interestingly enough, the "ultimatum" has been softened considerably. There is now no timeframe, a development I find interesting, to say the least. Apparently the "no timeframe" approach was coached by another seminar leader.
Nutrino--I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about their love of dominance. I've seen a few hints of that already. And I think I've gotten the "enrollment conversation," to which I replied that I've "chosen" not to enroll. Also, I've met some of her friends, many of whom seem to be Landmarkians, and I always get this mad inclination to yell out "Stepford wives! Stepford wives!"
Ellen--I'm ahead of the power curve! I've already started to sow some deprogramming seeds, beginning with "Surely you're not telling me that Landmark is the ONLY way to develop these skills?" and to "consider that there might well be other ways that work even better for others." As far as professional persuaders--I'm a lawyer in both trial and appellate practice--persuasion is, quite literally, my life. And I have to say that some of what this woman (who, I must confess, I like very much) has said is straight out of routine sales training, mixed with a dollop of warmed-over Heidegger. And I have to say--"the possibility of nothingness?" Please. I nearly ROFLMAO.
There do appear to be a couple of cracks in the armor--she has talked about Landmark has helped give her the skills to "deal with" her father's abandonment, but at other times she clearly has not processed it despite her claims to the contrary.
If I had to guess, I'd say she's betting I'll fall for her first and will then do whatever it takes to keep her, which would quickly, I'm sure, lead to the re-introduction of the original ultimatum.
All that said, it has been fun so far! Details as they occur.....
Bob
I've been through this before. Like you say, she was coached about the "no timeframe". This is the "ultimate" tactic to enroll the reluctant ones. Just wait, keep talking about Landmark "I just want to be able to share with you what it does for me ..." and eventually win. This is because, since the direct pressure is gone, your critical view about the hard sells pitch will vanish, as if your first impression about this whole thing was wrong (have you been running a racket?).
My ex used to tell me "I will not ask you to do the Landmark forum ... for 3 months" !!! After I told her that wasn't enough, she came up (after being coached) with the "no timeframe" approach. She then told me "I will never ask you to do the Landmark forum again" ... "I just want to be able to share with you ...". Then, one day, after that last promise, she came up with this: "Landmark is the best thing that ever happened to your life ... You just don't know it yet"!
I could smell how manipulative she was being ... and the subtle coaching behind her well tuned rethoric.
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
nutrino
()
Date: May 16, 2006 11:52PM
Quote
Then, one day, after that last promise, she came up with this: "Landmark is the best thing that ever happened to your life ... You just don't know it yet"!
Ummmmm... that technique was "liberated" from NLP... who "liberated" it from Milton Erikson ... it falls into the category of Time Line work if you're of the NLP persuasion, and post hypnotic suggestion if you're primarily an Eriksonian.
The induction works thusly (whoever imagined that every Landmark utterance could be deconstructed from a third party perspective ?) ...
1. attempt to persuade in present time, i.e. "get some money, pay them, and do it next week"
2. if resistance is encountered due to present circumstance objections or present frame of mind, value system, or logical structure... then...
3. (tricky business here) ... create a hypnotic confusion state by collapsing past position on timeline "that ever happened" with future position "know it yet" .... this also suggests to the unconscious mind that the event already has taken place which [i:1f12322432] presupposes [/i:1f12322432] that all objections have already been "handled" ... CLASSIC Eriksonian technique dragged out of the textbooks....
4. tee hee... answer by reversing the induction "Gosh when I knew it yet when will it be the best thing that will happen to me before you knew that it would..." That should set her little wheels spinning through about a dozen obsessive loops before she regains her balance.... and back to happy coachland we go ! Tra La La....
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
Maggie
()
Date: May 18, 2006 04:49AM
I was told that taking the course was "100% my choice" and then a couple weeks later the boss kept yelling at me "WE REALLY WANT YOU TO GO. WE REALLY WANT YOU TO GO!"
Bad stuff, man..
What do you see in this woman? Do you have a "rescue" racket ;) that keeps you drawn to Landmarkians??
Dump her.. maybe then she'll get the hint.
Bad stuff, man..
What do you see in this woman? Do you have a "rescue" racket ;) that keeps you drawn to Landmarkians??
Dump her.. maybe then she'll get the hint.
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
nutrino
()
Date: May 18, 2006 10:49AM
Quote
Maggie
and then a couple weeks later the boss kept yelling at me "WE REALLY WANT YOU TO GO. WE REALLY WANT YOU TO GO!".
Werer Hans' magic spell for turning humans into parrots.
Squawk!
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
initiate
()
Date: May 24, 2006 07:11AM
you must be getting laid a lot to put up with this sh*t. get real. find a woman who accepts you for who you are.
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
automaticftp
()
Date: May 31, 2006 10:42PM
An interesting evening. Told her I chose not to participate in a forum, and was treated with all expected broadsides. Apparently it was not "fair" of me to decide on my own, without talking to her about it. I'm sure the rest can be imagined. . .
I got one short bit of jargon, but the main appeal seemed to be that "imagine what we can be if you just do this!" The other interesting statement was that the forum can help condense communication. Since I think that communication is difficult enough as it as, the idea of condensing or compressing it holds no appeal.
Also, she was not impressed that I had actually done some outside reading, including the forum site itself. I finally said that it just did not appear to be anything I'd be interested in, and that I didn't see the value in it for me. To which I heard back "that's because you don't know what you don't know." Yes, jargon, I know.
So an interesting and mostly positive experience, but . . .
Thanks all!
Bob
I got one short bit of jargon, but the main appeal seemed to be that "imagine what we can be if you just do this!" The other interesting statement was that the forum can help condense communication. Since I think that communication is difficult enough as it as, the idea of condensing or compressing it holds no appeal.
Also, she was not impressed that I had actually done some outside reading, including the forum site itself. I finally said that it just did not appear to be anything I'd be interested in, and that I didn't see the value in it for me. To which I heard back "that's because you don't know what you don't know." Yes, jargon, I know.
So an interesting and mostly positive experience, but . . .
Thanks all!
Bob
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
tywebb
()
Date: May 31, 2006 11:53PM
I too was taken by a Lekkie on the internet. E-harmony was the site, and Yes I did report her, however they did not tell me what action they would take.
It is my firm belief that Landmark(I really hate calling them that as I feel they don't even deserve a name, except perhaps A collective group of dupes, pawns, drones and losers) is using dating sites to have their drones recruit people. It is yet another low for this heinous group.
My experience with the ultimatum is almost identical to yours, except my Lekkie's Mom has been into it for 9 years, and in turn I was double teamed by both of them.
I would advise you to run away as fast as possible.
It is my firm belief that Landmark(I really hate calling them that as I feel they don't even deserve a name, except perhaps A collective group of dupes, pawns, drones and losers) is using dating sites to have their drones recruit people. It is yet another low for this heinous group.
My experience with the ultimatum is almost identical to yours, except my Lekkie's Mom has been into it for 9 years, and in turn I was double teamed by both of them.
I would advise you to run away as fast as possible.
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
lightwolf
()
Date: June 01, 2006 02:24AM
Typical Lekkie behavior. It is not OK to make decisions without consulting them, but hey, they can make decisions without consulting you! Been there, done that. They get the mindset that you are a poor downstream boob, and live out the LGAT training style of trainee submits to trainer in the outside world.Quote
automaticftp
Apparently it was not "fair" of me to decide on my own, without talking to her about it.
It's all about control . . . .
-lightwolf
A new adventure in dating a Landmarkian...the ultimatum
Posted by:
nutrino
()
Date: June 01, 2006 03:52AM
Quote
tywebb
I too was taken by a Lekkie on the internet. E-harmony was the site, and Yes I did report her, however they did not tell me what action they would take .
One hopes, for their sake, that this conduct isn't the result of a high level instituional directive, suggestion, or coaching gone awry... [b:97f5acff9a] if [/b:97f5acff9a] they've gotten themselves into the flirty fishing business, yes, it is a new low, and yes, it speaks of either derangement or desperation ... has the Top Rosenberg lost touch with the his gruntlings ? Have the gruntlings taken over the asylum ?
I must say, as over the top as the old est organization was... there never needed to try anything as pathetic.... and this is [b:97f5acff9a] pathetic [/b:97f5acff9a] to the max.
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