In the end, the contradictions win and ultimately the unethical behavior is in control, whether you are aware of it or not.

In response to utah's question number 5 about laws to prevent things like Impact Trainings I offer this:

On this thread there has been some discussion of French law passed in the last few years that does exactly that. Germany appears to be working toward the same end. In the U.S it may be more difficult to do the same. The best way to increase public awareness is through a forum such as this. Regular contributions from those who have experienced the effects of LGAT, particularly of the Impact sub-species, are powerful anti-LGAT enlightenment. There is no more powerful anti-LGAT weapon than the clear and cold truth. I find the detail exposed here of the experiences of those TIT veterans resonates with my own actual exposier to Impactian doctrine. The counterfeit, self-serving good preached by Impact is the seed of its own eventual destruction.

You know, all ranting aside, there is still one thing that persists and tears at me. The breakdown process in Quest is so arbitrary and violent. The feedback arcs are hideous things. Strangers shouting and tearing you down on the most brief and impersonal exposure to you. Granted, I am sure that not all of the people I gave feedback to were the greatest of people, but I think of all the good people I hammered and tore down, stabbing and twisting the knife with only the most superficial of judgments as the basis for my terrible pronouncements. All the while, Hans and Justin swaggering about, cheering it on and doing the most damage. If there is a Hell, they will go there just for that, let alone all of the other shit. Sometimes I think I should too...I see faces of old women I called empty shells, and young women HELL, they were only mere girls and boys I called heartless and vicious and souless and worse, all the while, Hans and Justin patting my back. Sick bastard sons of bitches. Most of my Impact-caused issues have gone down to a simmer, but it is my feedback arcs where I was butchered and let them trick me into believing I was a horrible person, not to mention the countless others I participated in where I held the serrated knife, THAT is what keeps me up at night, and keeps me from being able to function at times.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 03:04AM by exImpact.

In response to exImact regarding the injustices done during the feedback arch - just to let you know my family member who went through Quest stated she doesn't have any lingering problems or issues on what went on there. In other words she is not permanently damaged by the horrible feedback she received. She's moved on. I personally saw the major hurt she felt the evening after she went through the feedback arch and at least I was there to help build her back up again and tell her these people don't even know her where as I've known her all my life. Anyway, she survived, not in impact training anymore and is doing great. So there are happy endings for some who get out - so don't beat yourself up too much.

I too get incensed when I REMEMBER those damn feedback arcs. Impact philosophy cannot accept the fact that some and even many children now adults had ideal childhoods. They did not hate their father or their mother and they were not abused. There is a need to capture in simple, primer form the essense of these characteristics of "the process" so counselors and ecclesiastical leaders and mental health professionals become informed about the damaging nature of "the process." The ignorance among professionals who should know better is appalling. They are fooled by the fooled, to quote exIpact. utah softens the seriousness too much with the example given here. There are very likely latent defects, Impact induced, that will plague the soul at a later date. Impact processes are excessive, dangerous, universally bad and have no redeeming value as far as I am concerned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 11:06AM by Hopeful Soul.

Hopeful Soul wrote:

>>Impact processes are excessive, dangerous, universally bad and have no redeeming value as far as I am concerned.<<

I agree with this with just a couple of refinements:

1) These are NOT "Impact processes." Hans and Sally stole them from their Lifespring training. Lifespring did Feedback Arcs in their second (not first) level, did them right before Lifeboat (most of the time), and called them "The Living Mirror." Hans and Sally continue to "appropriate" their TIT processes, apparently mostly from newage crap they "borrow" from the Golden Braid bookstore.

2) Great Life Foundation, Harmony Institute, VisionWorks, Rising Star, and even Dr. Phil on his Oprah's Get Real challenge ALL do/did Feedback Arcs/Living Mirrors and the other Lifespring processes. None of this began with, or is unique to, Impact.

3) Once when I was staffing I asked Hans privately what he would do if Jesus showed up in Quest. His response was something like this (it was years ago, so I admit I may not remember this exactly -- maybe Hans will show up here to correct anything I've gotten wrong, after all he is a stand for "Truth." LOL)

HANS: "It doesn't matter what feeback the staff shares with (screams at) the participants. Only the things that are true -- the things they are already telling themselves -- will be heard and stick. The rest is just noise."

Of course this was before they went to having only the TIT III cult followers giving feedback. Maybe they are better at it than I was in those days -- LOL.

I did get the impression though that Hans thought he had some useful feedback for Jesus - that not even Christ was as "perfect" as Hans is. That Impact is better than the Church. That Impact does more good than any church ever did. That Impact is unique on the Earth and the only place to really experience Christ/God/Heaven.

Given that, I've wondered, what David/Hans/Sylvia/Mike/Justin would have to say to Jesus in a Feedback Arc, or what Duane/Hans/Lou/Pamela/ would have had to say to Jesus in Lifeboat.

A friend who is an attorney and went through those arcs and Lifeboat recently tells me there's a winable case related to slander for someone who wants to file it. Problem is they would have to claim they were/are a "victim" and that's not something anyone who completes Quest is likely ever to want to claim . . .

>>Impact (Great Life, Resource Realizations, Harmony, "The Experience," etc, etc, etc) processes are excessive, dangerous, universally bad and have no redeeming value as far as I am concerned.<<

Again, I agree. Not only Feedback but ALL of them. From dancing naked (or nearly so) in Womens, to pretending your spouce is dead for a night in Couples, to washing each other's smelly feet, to climbing trees on a dangerous (with completely untrained and unlicensed staff doing the safety harness etc), to going back to Shasta again this year for God know what sort of BS, to whatever, NONE of them are worth the price paid. NONE.

The ONLY "positive" thing I can say I got out of ANY of this was a slightly improved appreciation for some of John Denver's music.

Impacted, but over it.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 11:18PM by Impacted.

Quote
utah
...Anyway, she survived, not in impact training anymore and is doing great. So there are happy endings for some who get out - so don't beat yourself up too much.

I appreciate your wish to soften the blows, but a point I would like to make is that it can be GOOD to beat yourself up if it keeps you from doing something horrible again, or if it makes you a better person. Excessive tolerance can be immoral. Besides, I am aware some people get out of it OK. They aren't the ones I worry or think about. However, I am sure that if someone said to my mother's face some of the things I assuredly said to other people's mothers, I would punch them in the face without hesitation. They would be lucky if I stopped with a punch. Just because they may have survived feedback relatively unscathed doesn't absolve the inhuman treatment inherent in the practice.

It's interesting to hear that TIT is going back to Shasta again this year. I had heard rumors they were planning to go to Germany. I guess there were members who didn't create the abundance they've been decreeing - some of them have been decreeing for over 10 years now. Or maybe Hans didn't want to want to take the risk of someone finding out the discrepancies in his life story. Regardless of the reason, it's only a manifestation of the hypocrisies involved.

One of the things that gets me the most about the contradictions is that there are people that have been decreeing for houses, better jobs, millions of dollars, and all kinds of other things, yet they still live in apartments, shop at second hand stores and work dead end jobs at the cost of "funding Impact's vision". No wonder they haven't "manifested their vision" It's being flushed down Impact's toilet. In all of that the TIT member's continue to blame themselves for whatever they see as "getting in their way". Impact is never at fault. It's sad to see how Impact loyalists live from problem to problem because they are constantly told to "take a look". The whole idea of feasting on the banquet of life is interrupted by the panic of making sure your not getting in your own way and that your life is in alignment with what Impact is preaching that month.

Inconsistancies in Hans' life story would surely be frutiful ground to explore. His minions quote the story of his out migration a lot and may have gotten it a bit mixed up. Staying away from the second hand repeats would be wise. My limited first hand information suggests he began his childhood in the part of Germany liberated by the U.S. in 1945 and later turned over to the Soviets as a barganing chip to maintain allied occupation rights in Berlin. This would be in the area of the provinces of Thuringia and Saxony etc., part of what became East Germany. This would explain his contact with Russians following Americans. The story as Han's has told it is certainly a good one. The devil is in the detail though so statements witnessed directly from Hans and posted here would interest a lot of us. This would definitely be "going to the Source" as Han's teaches.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2008 03:53AM by Hopeful Soul.

Hans has a brother who apparently tells a vastly different version of the "escape from Germany" story -- apparently has nothing to do with Hans and see's Hans' version as one confused by too many viewings of The Sound of Music.

Hans also has an ex-wife and Sally an Ex-husband who would be worth researching/contacting.

Each also has siblings with whom they do not speak. Some of Sally's were active in the very early days, and know a ton of dirt.

On a different topic, is this guy in any way related to Justin Atkinson?

Sure looks like him, and he's over at the Grape Life Cult now

[www.youtube.com]


Ed