Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: November 24, 2008 06:17PM
Espiritu:
The thread hasn't fizzled off. Not for me it hasn't. All I have to do is wake up and look in the mirror and the thread is alive. All I have to do is look at my therapy bills to think about this thread. All I have to do is think about the people who say their methods are OK but those who run it are corrupt and want to vomit in my anger at the insensitivity of the comment. All I have to do is quit my practice because I have flashbacks of what happened to me and those horrid things I witnessed in the Impact Trainings. Because my anxiety is so acute now, I panic at the drop of a pin thanks to the methods of the LGAT. I am fighting it right now just typing here. It happens every time. How many posts do I have on this site? I am tired of the insensitivity of those who were not hurt so deeply by the destructive practices of the LGAT. Impact, Lifespring, Landmark. The only kind of people who can run these things are thieves and madmen, because only they are willing to be irresponsible enough to employ these unethical methods.
All that oneness and love they pump you with is merely the manipulation of your soul. They have no message other than the raping of your mind and wallet as they get off on the power of their adoration and self-satisfaction. It is empty and vacuous of real emotional meaning. It is a laboratory and we were Alice willing to jump down the booby trapped rabbit shithole.
Sometimes I have a paradoxical experience of feeling relief at watching the horrible events that infest this world. Homeless on the street, death in the Mid-east and Africa. I sometimes feel this twisted relief that "There! There is the proof that Hans Berger's vision of a healed world is false. There is proof that his visions of Jesus Christ and Archangel Michael and the promise of Ascension with the Exalted Masters of the Almighty God on High were smoke and mirrors bullshit." Sometimes, I need that to convince me that I am OK and sane now. And it sickens me.
I left Impact the moment I realized that no one and nothing changes through their methods. People undergo the placebo effect that they are changed, but it is false. I watched people stay the same or just get worse year after year. Either more poor, or just as poor, or more crazy or just as crazy.
Let it be known that the programs employed by the Impact Trainings and all other LGAT's are TREADMILLS. That is all. The illusion of movement. Wasted energy. But it only stays in the system that is Impact. Nothing real happens, and the longer and harder you run on that treadmill, the more of a wraith you will become, losing touch with reality as your imagination becomes your faith. As IMAGINATION becomes your LIFE. For those who jump off early and roll in the dust and walk away with barely a scratch, good for you. But if that is as far as you are willing to dig into this problem, you need an empathy check or a new moral compass. I don't have time for those kinds of people. That is why I left impact.
The thread hasn't fizzled off. Not for me it hasn't. All I have to do is wake up and look in the mirror and the thread is alive. All I have to do is look at my therapy bills to think about this thread. All I have to do is think about the people who say their methods are OK but those who run it are corrupt and want to vomit in my anger at the insensitivity of the comment. All I have to do is quit my practice because I have flashbacks of what happened to me and those horrid things I witnessed in the Impact Trainings. Because my anxiety is so acute now, I panic at the drop of a pin thanks to the methods of the LGAT. I am fighting it right now just typing here. It happens every time. How many posts do I have on this site? I am tired of the insensitivity of those who were not hurt so deeply by the destructive practices of the LGAT. Impact, Lifespring, Landmark. The only kind of people who can run these things are thieves and madmen, because only they are willing to be irresponsible enough to employ these unethical methods.
All that oneness and love they pump you with is merely the manipulation of your soul. They have no message other than the raping of your mind and wallet as they get off on the power of their adoration and self-satisfaction. It is empty and vacuous of real emotional meaning. It is a laboratory and we were Alice willing to jump down the booby trapped rabbit shithole.
Sometimes I have a paradoxical experience of feeling relief at watching the horrible events that infest this world. Homeless on the street, death in the Mid-east and Africa. I sometimes feel this twisted relief that "There! There is the proof that Hans Berger's vision of a healed world is false. There is proof that his visions of Jesus Christ and Archangel Michael and the promise of Ascension with the Exalted Masters of the Almighty God on High were smoke and mirrors bullshit." Sometimes, I need that to convince me that I am OK and sane now. And it sickens me.
I left Impact the moment I realized that no one and nothing changes through their methods. People undergo the placebo effect that they are changed, but it is false. I watched people stay the same or just get worse year after year. Either more poor, or just as poor, or more crazy or just as crazy.
Let it be known that the programs employed by the Impact Trainings and all other LGAT's are TREADMILLS. That is all. The illusion of movement. Wasted energy. But it only stays in the system that is Impact. Nothing real happens, and the longer and harder you run on that treadmill, the more of a wraith you will become, losing touch with reality as your imagination becomes your faith. As IMAGINATION becomes your LIFE. For those who jump off early and roll in the dust and walk away with barely a scratch, good for you. But if that is as far as you are willing to dig into this problem, you need an empathy check or a new moral compass. I don't have time for those kinds of people. That is why I left impact.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: November 24, 2008 06:32PM
Quote
Impacted
and Ward's watermelon that you can suck the life out of then spit on the ground just like they do to Ward and did to Terri and JJ . . .
--Ed
Not to mention John Smart and their kids, Doug and Debbi Moore, Judy and Duncan and Zlata...and many many more.
I am surprised that Hans just doesn't start calling Ward "Boy".
I think Hans isn't lying about being blessed with the strength of Legions of Angels, because he juggles buses onto people like Godzilla.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Espiritu
()
Date: November 24, 2008 11:51PM
ExImpact -
Thanks for responding. I really am an empathetic person. I really do have a strong moral compass. And, I am truly sorry that you have that much anxiety and have to deal with flashbacks, etc. That's no way to go through life. Obviously, you are doing all you can to heal those wounds. I hope that you find peace again..really.
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
Thanks for responding. I really am an empathetic person. I really do have a strong moral compass. And, I am truly sorry that you have that much anxiety and have to deal with flashbacks, etc. That's no way to go through life. Obviously, you are doing all you can to heal those wounds. I hope that you find peace again..really.
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
exImpact
()
Date: November 25, 2008 05:48AM
I didn't ask for advice or your opinion about my situation. A situation you are mostly ignorant to. But you couldn't resist, could you. Your anti-blame ethic and your presumption to speak to me about my problems tells me you are still high on MENTAL CONDITIONING. We don't throw that term or the term BRAINWASHING around here just to get a reaction. Impact and LGAT's use it like a weapon. Affermations are mind control, and they work, that is why they use them. OF COURSE it doesn't mean they can't be used in a healthy way. Prayer and affirmations and their benefits are merely placebo in action. It's not God putting his hand in your brain and making reality change. If you want to point out the obvious, please go do it elsewhere.
It's a bit naive for you to think you have any advice to offer me concerning looking at the good and not the bad. Please refrain from giving me any advice I do not ask for. I do not require it. I believe in honesty, integrity and love, but not, NOT in any of this new-age, LGAT format horse SHIT. And thanks to Impact, most DEFINITELY not in the form of Religion. Thanks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2008 05:52AM by exImpact.
It's a bit naive for you to think you have any advice to offer me concerning looking at the good and not the bad. Please refrain from giving me any advice I do not ask for. I do not require it. I believe in honesty, integrity and love, but not, NOT in any of this new-age, LGAT format horse SHIT. And thanks to Impact, most DEFINITELY not in the form of Religion. Thanks.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2008 05:52AM by exImpact.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: November 25, 2008 07:19AM
Hi Espiritu, welcome to the thread. For some reason I stopped getting email notifications of new posts on the thread otherwise I would have responded more quickly.
I think its fair to say that some forms of new age meditation/practices are less harmful than others. I have even known people who seem to have experienced long term benefits from engaging in structured new age activities. That being said, Impact is guided by a group of people who exhibit sociopathic behaviour that allows them to think they are above their followers (While in prison Ted Bundy discussed his role as a "predator" and how it made him more than human, in my opinion much of what goes on at Impact is motivated by a similar desire for power).
The issue that I have with the movement as a whole is that because "Life Coaching" is so poorly regulated it seems to attract con-artists much more easily than other fields that have more barriers to entry. I could go and start a training tomorrow and my business plan would be successful as long as I kept getting people through the door because there is no quality control built in to ensure that I am actually doing more than simple mental conditioning. If I call myself a "Life Coach" or "Personal Improvement Trainer" my lack of credentials, life experience and education is a non-issue. In fact, my lack of these attributes may even be a benefit because I could make up an entire history about myself that would be extremely difficult to verify (which is exactly what Hans and Sally have done).
Due to the alarming lack of structure in the movement I have a hard time believing that the good that is done in these retreats/trainings outweighs the bad. Financial markets used to allow investment houses called "bucket shops" to operate unregulated. These bucket shops provided a kind of investment opportunity to the masses while at the same time maintaining relationships with many company insiders (since insider trading was legal at this time). These relationships allowed the bucket shops to enter into contracts with their patrons, then contact insiders and make stocks go crazy on command thus robbing the patron's of their invested capital. Eventually the government began to create trading laws to make the market much more equitable but it took an extreme amount of regulation and even the outright ban of certain kinds of companies. I think the new age industry requires similar extreme action before its truly fit for human consumption.
I think its fair to say that some forms of new age meditation/practices are less harmful than others. I have even known people who seem to have experienced long term benefits from engaging in structured new age activities. That being said, Impact is guided by a group of people who exhibit sociopathic behaviour that allows them to think they are above their followers (While in prison Ted Bundy discussed his role as a "predator" and how it made him more than human, in my opinion much of what goes on at Impact is motivated by a similar desire for power).
The issue that I have with the movement as a whole is that because "Life Coaching" is so poorly regulated it seems to attract con-artists much more easily than other fields that have more barriers to entry. I could go and start a training tomorrow and my business plan would be successful as long as I kept getting people through the door because there is no quality control built in to ensure that I am actually doing more than simple mental conditioning. If I call myself a "Life Coach" or "Personal Improvement Trainer" my lack of credentials, life experience and education is a non-issue. In fact, my lack of these attributes may even be a benefit because I could make up an entire history about myself that would be extremely difficult to verify (which is exactly what Hans and Sally have done).
Due to the alarming lack of structure in the movement I have a hard time believing that the good that is done in these retreats/trainings outweighs the bad. Financial markets used to allow investment houses called "bucket shops" to operate unregulated. These bucket shops provided a kind of investment opportunity to the masses while at the same time maintaining relationships with many company insiders (since insider trading was legal at this time). These relationships allowed the bucket shops to enter into contracts with their patrons, then contact insiders and make stocks go crazy on command thus robbing the patron's of their invested capital. Eventually the government began to create trading laws to make the market much more equitable but it took an extreme amount of regulation and even the outright ban of certain kinds of companies. I think the new age industry requires similar extreme action before its truly fit for human consumption.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Espiritu
()
Date: November 25, 2008 07:31AM
Well...I didn't really ask you to call me ignorant, naive or mentally conditioned. But, I see you couldn't resist this either.
I wasn't trying to give you any kind of advice. I was just speaking up for what I believe in. I didn't expect you...or really anyone to agree with me. Like you, I don't really require that. What I believe in won't change because of what someone posts here. Nor did my initial or subsequent posts ever tell people they should go out and try IMPACT.
Whether you want to believe it or not, I was sincere in my hopes that, at some point, you no longer have to deal or live with the after effects of Impact. I love how this turns me into being "presumptuous". I never said..."Oh, hey..I know all about your problems". If I post my opinion about IMPACT and LGATs in general and it does not coincide with your opinion, then I am an insensitive person. If I make an effort to recognize that not all people had my experience, and that their lives were serverely damaged then I am "presuming to know about their problems". Whatever.
Just because I think differently about this whole thing than you do doesn't make me any less of a critical thinking individual. You don't know me as a person. You don't know my family (who also went through IMPACT) YEARS ago. Our family members who did NOT go through it would NEVER refer to us as "mentally conditioned". It did NOT break up any of our relationships or make our lives dysfunctional. That is factual...just as what happened to you and all the other posters who have been negatively impacted (pun intended) by this LGAT is.
What really sucks is the association between New Age ideas/philosophies and these groups. I do believe in a lot of New Age ideas, etc... BUT, it isn't because IMPACT made me believe it 15 yrs ago. In fact, that wasn't even part of their thing back then.
Lastly - I thought this was a place where I could freely express my thoughts about IMPACT. Isn't it the moderator's job to tell me to go elsewhere? Why do you have to attack me personally like that?
I wasn't trying to give you any kind of advice. I was just speaking up for what I believe in. I didn't expect you...or really anyone to agree with me. Like you, I don't really require that. What I believe in won't change because of what someone posts here. Nor did my initial or subsequent posts ever tell people they should go out and try IMPACT.
Whether you want to believe it or not, I was sincere in my hopes that, at some point, you no longer have to deal or live with the after effects of Impact. I love how this turns me into being "presumptuous". I never said..."Oh, hey..I know all about your problems". If I post my opinion about IMPACT and LGATs in general and it does not coincide with your opinion, then I am an insensitive person. If I make an effort to recognize that not all people had my experience, and that their lives were serverely damaged then I am "presuming to know about their problems". Whatever.
Just because I think differently about this whole thing than you do doesn't make me any less of a critical thinking individual. You don't know me as a person. You don't know my family (who also went through IMPACT) YEARS ago. Our family members who did NOT go through it would NEVER refer to us as "mentally conditioned". It did NOT break up any of our relationships or make our lives dysfunctional. That is factual...just as what happened to you and all the other posters who have been negatively impacted (pun intended) by this LGAT is.
What really sucks is the association between New Age ideas/philosophies and these groups. I do believe in a lot of New Age ideas, etc... BUT, it isn't because IMPACT made me believe it 15 yrs ago. In fact, that wasn't even part of their thing back then.
Lastly - I thought this was a place where I could freely express my thoughts about IMPACT. Isn't it the moderator's job to tell me to go elsewhere? Why do you have to attack me personally like that?
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
jk.genesis
()
Date: November 26, 2008 08:02AM
Quote
Espiritu
ExImpact -
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
***If a process or system is consistently used as a tool of abuse and manipulation, shouldn't it be held up to strict scrutiny? Good therapists who treat cult victims encourage them to go beyond what was wrong with the cult they just left and learn about the psychology of persuasion and influence so they can learn to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Impact is just another fucking cult. Literally.
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
***There is a fundamental disconnect in your reasoning that suggests you are still buying into the Impact line. You can't separate the dishonest and unethical motive for monetary gain from the message. It's like those Impacted/mind-fucked people who deny Joseph Smith was a prophet, believe he was a con man, yet still believe the Book of Mormon was inspired by God. They don't believe he translated ancient writings from gold plates but they do believe that Mormon and Moroni were real people who lived and continue to provide them with spiritual guidance. This is not harmless, it is insane. And the fact that thousands or even millions of people believe in a certain "truth" (i.e. the world is flat) or engage in a certain activity (driving drunk) does not make it true or smart.
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
***What evidence do you have that this collective meditation technique is a "good and powerful force for creating a better world"? None.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
***I am unaware of any reputable scientific studies or research suggesting "that the power of prayer is a real thing." Please cite your sources. That positive thinking is a motivating quality is a matter of common sense that is common to the human condition in general and is not attributable to any spiritual or religious belief. Spiritual and/or religious systems (and LGATs) steal ideas from smart innovative people then claim them for their own. Further, the damage Impact causes as fosters co-dependent relationships and encourages behaviors symptomatic of passive aggressive personality disorder is far outweighed by any positive thinking gimmicks it throws in for good measure that have been pirated from other sources.
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
***What baby?
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Espiritu
()
Date: November 26, 2008 11:17AM
Quote
jk.genesisQuote
Espiritu
ExImpact -
I think it's entirely possible for me to feel this way, and also feel that some of the methods used (gestalt techniques, meditation, confrontation) are not, in and of themselves, harmful. I find myself saying "don't blame the process or system, blame the people" for not just Impact, but for many things in this world.
***If a process or system is consistently used as a tool of abuse and manipulation, shouldn't it be held up to strict scrutiny? Good therapists who treat cult victims encourage them to go beyond what was wrong with the cult they just left and learn about the psychology of persuasion and influence so they can learn to avoid making similar mistakes in the future. Impact is just another fucking cult. Literally.
When i refer to the "process" I am talking about techniques used - the ones i've referenced in parenthesis. These are legit techniques, that when used properly can help people. I am not advocating for the system of paying for implementation of said techniques by un-skilled, self serving individuals. The process, for example, of beating on the chairs or using a person in the group as a symbolic reference for a family member, etc. that a person has an unresolved issue with is NOT a bad thing. My mom said that this process helped her to let go of anger she held against my father, who was abusive. A more tame example of "don't blame the system" would be something like...when people think welfare is jacked up because so many people take advantage of it...or that politics are corrupt - it's not the system, it's the people within it who are acting in a selfish way who leave that impression
Yes, there are terrible things happening in this world. I don't really see these things as evidence that different people's attempts to promote healing and peace are not working. When I say different people, I mean that thousands of people around the world are trying to do the same thing as Impact "thinks" they are the only ones doing. The biggest problem with Impact is that the REAL guiding principle seems to be one of greed and monetary gain, with an added bonus of controlling people. Both the need to possess monetarily and mentally, all that people have, stems from a deep seated fear of not having. So, by virtue of what they are preaching - this is the reality the continue to manifest (one of not having and therefore, creating a continual need to have more). This is where these individuals are not living their message - and in the process they are damaging lives left and right, without caring. But, it doesn't make the message wrong.
***There is a fundamental disconnect in your reasoning that suggests you are still buying into the Impact line. You can't separate the dishonest and unethical motive for monetary gain from the message.
Why can't I? They are cleary using a message that's appealing to people...we are all one, we are all powerful, we can create peace....these are bad messages in your opinion? Might it be possible that I see beyond all of the smoke and mirrors of the impact people and recognize something that might be worthwhile? The fact that this message is a selling feature to lure people in and rape them mentally and monetarily does not negate the message.
It's like those Impacted/mind-fucked people who deny Joseph Smith was a prophet, believe he was a con man, yet still believe the Book of Mormon was inspired by God. They don't believe he translated ancient writings from gold plates but they do believe that Mormon and Moroni were real people who lived and continue to provide them with spiritual guidance. This is not harmless, it is insane.
Yeah, I agree that doesn't make sense, and it's hippocritical. I don't ascribe to any organized religion for that reason...it's full of contradictions and multiple interpretations to push agendas of men
And the fact that thousands or even millions of people believe in a certain "truth" (i.e. the world is flat) or engage in a certain activity (driving drunk) does not make it true or smart.
I hardly think ascribing to the idea that world peace is possible as the same thing as the world being flat or drunk driving. By the way...the world has been proven not to be flat (whoops, am i stating the obvious again?) and drunk drivers suffer consequences and eventually learn from their mistakes...or die of alcoholism
There's a group that promotes meditation on a peaceful world every day at 11:11. It encourages all people who are on this list to focus and generate thoughts of peace, healing, etc. This is a free thing (obviously) and doesn't involve any mind control. In my opinion, this is a good and powerful force for creating a better world. Like I stated before, Impact has borrowed ideas that have positive merit and are not just ways to suck your soul/mind dry, and then warped them with their true intentions.
***What evidence do you have that this collective meditation technique is a "good and powerful force for creating a better world"? None.
I don't have evidence. Did I say that I did? I will look for some, though. All I can say is it sure is doing more good that wallowing around in my anger, bitterness and pain thinking about how this whole world has gone to crap....I happen to think our thoughts create reality - but you might think me looney for that.
It's akin to prayer. There's research that documents that the power of prayer is a real thing. Prayer, essentially, is made up of thoughts that are intentional, directed and positive. Affirmations have been proven effective in therapy (treatment of increasing self esteem, decreasing anxiety and depression). Just because they were used in Impact by non-professionals doesn't make them "mind control".
***I am unaware of any reputable scientific studies or research suggesting "that the power of prayer is a real thing." Please cite your sources.
umm how about all the people sitting around in churches praying? actually, i will do some research on this and get back to you, because there have been studies
That positive thinking is a motivating quality is a matter of common sense that is common to the human condition in general and is not attributable to any spiritual or religious belief. Spiritual and/or religious systems (and LGATs) steal ideas from smart innovative people then claim them for their own.
I'm sorry...are you saying you have to be smart and innovative to think positively? Or, that it's just common sense to do so. If it were really common sense, then there would be far less depressed people in the world. Oh, and there wouldn't be a need for cognitive behavioral therapy.
Further, the damage Impact causes as fosters co-dependent relationships and encourages behaviors symptomatic of passive aggressive personality disorder is far outweighed by any positive thinking gimmicks it throws in for good measure that have been pirated from other sources.
Ok, I left Impact and did not become co-dependent on them. Instead, I am 20 yrs married to my husband who didn't go through the training. I hold a Masters degree in counseling and am a very positive person...with a happy life.
I guess all I am trying to say is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I encourage you not to discount the value of certain things that were brought up or used in Impact because of your Impact experience. If, for any reason, that these ideas are not exclusively Impact.
***What baby?
The baby is what can be taken away when all is said and done....those things that I learned about myself in the experience of Impact. I gained confidence. I became more aware of my fear of depending on men. I healed my relationship with my sister.....these things happened because of the way I responded to the things done in the LGAT. I honestly do feel for those who had a negative experience.
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
Espiritu
()
Date: November 26, 2008 11:29PM
Quote
formerimpactgrad
Hi Espiritu, welcome to the thread. For some reason I stopped getting email notifications of new posts on the thread otherwise I would have responded more quickly.
Hi former. Thanks for the welcome...
I think its fair to say that some forms of new age meditation/practices are less harmful than others. I have even known people who seem to have experienced long term benefits from engaging in structured new age activities. That being said, Impact is guided by a group of people who exhibit sociopathic behaviour that allows them to think they are above their followers (While in prison Ted Bundy discussed his role as a "predator" and how it made him more than human, in my opinion much of what goes on at Impact is motivated by a similar desire for power).
I couldn't agree more. When I have referred in previous posts the the "process", I guess what I am really referring to are the practices that these sociopaths have stolen. There is NO MERIT to a cult - which, I believe Impact is. I have always had issue with the idea that this is somehow "secret" information that only a "selected group led by by charismatic leader" can guide you to. That's balloney!!
The issue that I have with the movement as a whole is that because "Life Coaching" is so poorly regulated it seems to attract con-artists much more easily than other fields that have more barriers to entry. I could go and start a training tomorrow and my business plan would be successful as long as I kept getting people through the door because there is no quality control built in to ensure that I am actually doing more than simple mental conditioning. If I call myself a "Life Coach" or "Personal Improvement Trainer" my lack of credentials, life experience and education is a non-issue. In fact, my lack of these attributes may even be a benefit because I could make up an entire history about myself that would be extremely difficult to verify (which is exactly what Hans and Sally have done).
This is where it lies with us, the consumer...or seeker...of personal "training". Thank God there is a place like this forum where individuals can become familiar with what really goes on in this "training"
Due to the alarming lack of structure in the movement I have a hard time believing that the good that is done in these retreats/trainings outweighs the bad. Financial markets used to allow investment houses called "bucket shops" to operate unregulated. These bucket shops provided a kind of investment opportunity to the masses while at the same time maintaining relationships with many company insiders (since insider trading was legal at this time). These relationships allowed the bucket shops to enter into contracts with their patrons, then contact insiders and make stocks go crazy on command thus robbing the patron's of their invested capital. Eventually the government began to create trading laws to make the market much more equitable but it took an extreme amount of regulation and even the outright ban of certain kinds of companies. I think the new age industry requires similar extreme action before its truly fit for human consumption.
I hear what you are saying about the good outweighing the bad. I suspect that my postings about what I actually gained (through my own accord) while attending Impact is seen as some kind of "see, they really did do good things" type of justification or encouragement to attend. It's not meant to be this. Instead, it's more of a "See, it's possible to move on from this experience without being totally damaged." I encourage anyone who wants to experience personal growth to do their OWN reading, attend SMALL groups run by a PROFESSIONAL therapist and follow up with individual therapy.I am not sure if New Age ideas/philosophies can be regulated any more than churches or organized religions can, though - since they are mostly about spirituality
Re: IMPACT Trainings
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: November 27, 2008 12:11AM
Thank you for the response.
As you said, thankfully there is more information available today than there was a few years ago. My issue with this statement stems from my belief that it is reasonable to expect more from some people than others. While I am of the opinion that I am ultimately in charge of my own life, Impact caters primarily to broken, depressed and desperate individuals who cannot be reasonably expected to make well informed choices on a consistent basis. Simply saying that the responsibility lies with the consumer or seeker assumes that the consumer or seeker in question is capable of looking past the recommendation of a friend or loved one and ignoring the manipulation that occurs at guest presentations in order to make a more informed decision using information posted anonymously on the internet. While this information may raise questions, there are plenty of reasons to disregard it or chalk it up to the perception of "The disgruntled few". In addition, as you've stated yourself, this thread is almost intolerably long and some pages are far more valuable than others. The set of individuals willing to sift through it is likely quite small. As a result, the information advantage still lies very clearly in the hands of the LGATs. While this may not always be the case, it definitely seems to hold in this instance.
I agree that it is possible for most to move on after the Impact experience but, as I stated before, many of the Impact Trainees have major emotional issues before they ever walk in the training doors. I have seen the Impact experience push the emotionally unstable or immature into a level of dysfunction so great it seems unlikely that they will ever be able to fully recover.
The difference between Impact and religion is their legal status. Impact is a for profit company that has found a loophole that allows them to practice therapy without a license. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to accurately define "therapy" in a legal sense, and then require unlicensed firms to correct themselves or close their doors. There will still be groups who can operate unhealthy businesses under a religious "non-profit" status (Scientology comes to mind) but accurately defining therapy and applying it to "for profit companies" seems like a good way to clean up a significant portion of the movement.
Quote
Espiritu
This is where it lies with us, the consumer...or seeker...of personal "training". Thank God there is a place like this forum where individuals can become familiar with what really goes on in this "training"
As you said, thankfully there is more information available today than there was a few years ago. My issue with this statement stems from my belief that it is reasonable to expect more from some people than others. While I am of the opinion that I am ultimately in charge of my own life, Impact caters primarily to broken, depressed and desperate individuals who cannot be reasonably expected to make well informed choices on a consistent basis. Simply saying that the responsibility lies with the consumer or seeker assumes that the consumer or seeker in question is capable of looking past the recommendation of a friend or loved one and ignoring the manipulation that occurs at guest presentations in order to make a more informed decision using information posted anonymously on the internet. While this information may raise questions, there are plenty of reasons to disregard it or chalk it up to the perception of "The disgruntled few". In addition, as you've stated yourself, this thread is almost intolerably long and some pages are far more valuable than others. The set of individuals willing to sift through it is likely quite small. As a result, the information advantage still lies very clearly in the hands of the LGATs. While this may not always be the case, it definitely seems to hold in this instance.
Quote
Espiritu
I hear what you are saying about the good outweighing the bad. I suspect that my postings about what I actually gained (through my own accord) while attending Impact is seen as some kind of "see, they really did do good things" type of justification or encouragement to attend. It's not meant to be this. Instead, it's more of a "See, it's possible to move on from this experience without being totally damaged." I encourage anyone who wants to experience personal growth to do their OWN reading, attend SMALL groups run by a PROFESSIONAL therapist and follow up with individual therapy.I am not sure if New Age ideas/philosophies can be regulated any more than churches or organized religions can, though - since they are mostly about spirituality
I agree that it is possible for most to move on after the Impact experience but, as I stated before, many of the Impact Trainees have major emotional issues before they ever walk in the training doors. I have seen the Impact experience push the emotionally unstable or immature into a level of dysfunction so great it seems unlikely that they will ever be able to fully recover.
The difference between Impact and religion is their legal status. Impact is a for profit company that has found a loophole that allows them to practice therapy without a license. It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to accurately define "therapy" in a legal sense, and then require unlicensed firms to correct themselves or close their doors. There will still be groups who can operate unhealthy businesses under a religious "non-profit" status (Scientology comes to mind) but accurately defining therapy and applying it to "for profit companies" seems like a good way to clean up a significant portion of the movement.
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