Whatthe??

I just wondered if you ended up going to the guest presentation. What's new with your friends? Please post and let us know when you get a chance. Thanks!

Just an FYI for all the readers of this Forum. The Impact Trainings press release, "Impact Trainings, an unbiased review" or something like that was written by a grad named Robert Paisola. Robert Paisola is a debt collector and credit counselor with a questionable reputation in his field. He commonly calls himself "moneytrainer" and may be the same person that made the common about Impact being deemed effective in a University study.

In a prior post I wrote about the problems with his review, namely that the primary source was completely fabricated and the position that he was said to have held at the university did not exist. In addition to my small amount of research on the facts in his poorly written release I also happened to discover that Robert Paisola is a convicted sex offender. I have attached the link to the Utah sex offender registry where Mr. Paisola's profile is listed,

[www.cr.ex.state.ut.us] ,

Robert Paisola is a consistent defender of Impacts character and like them claims to be involved in life saving work. Anyway, in addition to fabricating sources and facts, he is also a sex offender.

Despite this he is eligible to work on the volunteer staff at Impact where he is seen as a leader and can supervise small groups containing women as young as 18 (in special cases with parental consent girls as young as 14 have been known to participate in the core trainings).

Forgive me for creating so many successive posts on this issue but I discovered more information about Robert Paisola, motivational speaker, volunteer staff member and public apologist for the Impact Trainings.

In case the sex offender/child pornography link didn't reveal enough about this person's character I have added one more link:

[robertpaisola-thetruth.blogspot.com]

This link contains an audio conversation between Robert Paisola and the representative of a creditor. Robert and this representative are attempting to mediate a dispute between the creditor and a debtor whom Robert is representing. Robert demonstrates his utter incompetence in this conversation and suggests signing a document "really fast" when told that the creditor cannot abide by the terms of his proposal.

In addition to the audio file, there is a link to a court record where Robert Paisola is being charged for violating his parole for both the child pornography case and another case for submitting a false statement to a financial institution.

Robert Paisola was attempting to convince the court that his sentences should be fulfilled concurrently despite his parole violation (He violated his parole by submitting another false loan application to a financial institution). To support his position he cited an older case, United States v. Controneo, 89 F.3d 510 (8th Cir.), and claimed that there was a precedent that allowed him to serve his sentences concurrently. The problem with his assertion was that the verdict in the older case was that the criminal was not allowed to serve concurrent sentences. As a result the precedent set in the document provided even more of a reason to make him serve the sentences back to back. It was pure comedy!

I think Robert Paisola is like an immoral/evil Forrest Gump!

formerimpactgrad - do you realize this character has appeared on MSNBC, speaking out as an advocate for 'sex offenders rights'? The clip I saw had him saying society needs to be sure to not punish sex offenders the same across the board... everything I see and/or read about his guy makes him appear that he is not in touch with reality. Denial is an interesting thing to observe.

I'm not sure of the date of the airing of the segment I saw, but I do wonder if MSNBC takes the time to check on the so-called 'guest experts' they have on their segments.

That's interesting. I found the link if anyone is interested:

[video.google.com]

He attempts to make the point that sex offenders who abuse children multiple times can be rehabilitated. How many more children will have to experience life altering and emotionally crippling sexual abuse by a multiple offender before we can be sure that he/she is rehabilitated?

I wonder if Robert Paisola is worried about facing the death penalty if this law passes?

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formerimpactgrad
The problem with his assertion was that the verdict in the older case was that the criminal was not allowed to serve concurrent sentences. As a result the precedent set in the document provided even more of a reason to make him serve the sentences back to back. It was pure comedy! I think Robert Paisola is like an immoral/evil Forrest Gump!

Ah, yes. The invincible clarity and natural knowing of the “divinely inspired” Impact Training staff strikes again with its wise and intuitive insights into the character of the people who partake of, help organize and run the trainings. I think I just met my sarcasm quota for today. Formerimpactgrad, you have made me laugh very hard with this revelation. Parisola has every right to be afraid of the death penalty.

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formerimpactgrad
I've spent some time lately reflecting on why I think the Impact Trainings are such a destructive force in the lives of their trainees and I came up with a couple of reasons that I wanted to post on here. These ideas have probably been hinted at in prior posts but I don't know if the message has come across as clearly as I think it needs to. As a result, I submit the following...

Occasionally I tend to think about this very same phenomenon. For the most part, I think about it in order to understand how I (and many others) could be so thoroughly enthralled and duped into something that is now so obviously insane, irrational and outright stupid. I think I have found one possible and likely answer. The term “unconditional love” is constantly thrown around at Impact, in fact, according to the staff, it is the foundation for the trainings themselves. This “unconditional love” (now will be referred to as UL) in Impactian terms means that there is no trespass or sin so heinous that it cannot be forgiven. They then go the next step and overtly claim that this is the true nature of God, and that they are merely implementing His will to bring heaven down to earth in the form of the REAL second coming of Jesus Christ, which is when we all become Christs ourselves (as the Buddha has done as well as Neo I suppose). This divine Will transcends all boundaries of race, sex, deeds and religion. It is inclusivism (which is philosophically logically problematic) at its highest form, and is considered by those who run Impact to be a higher and a more holy place than any church, temple or synagogue in the world (this was expressed to me multiple times personally and also in the TIT trainings) because the true divinity that is felt and exists in those places can all be found at Impact, but at much higher and more pure levels. The Quest and Summit trainings are the pinnacle of where the act of UL is imposed on the consenting trainees. In those trainings I have seen the raped, molested and suicidal try to wrestle with the apparent injustices of the world. I have also witnessed the molesters the killers, (and once, a cold-blooded hate-crime murderer) confess to their trespasses and addictions in hope for some kind of redemption. In Quest (and Summit) these people are singled out and are used as object lessons to point out the inhumanity of the other trainees in the room who are judging them and criticizing them when in fact they are DIRECTLY responsible for why those heinous people have done what they have done or have had happen to them what has happened, using the training room as a sampling for the rest of the depraved, evil and “dark density” of the world. Then the trainer and staff proceed to direct these traumatized souls into some kind of healing and transformation that the rest of us trainees who have been violated in some way but to a lesser degree stand back and go “Wow, I have empathy for that person. I can love and forgive someone who was/has (insert atrocity here) I am a really good person and the Impact Trainings are truly doing Gods work! And now…SO AM I!!!!”
The illusion of permanent healing appears to occur in the trainings because people don’t want to be depressed, suicidal, maudlin and hopeless. So when they are told they aren’t anymore, they believe it. But the problems don’t go away, they just get swept under the carpet while this new sense of freedom and power takes over and makes these people feel free to be immoral and/or power crazed. They are unwilling to admit that being at the top of the moral food chain of the world is why they like to do what they do, why they keep going back and why the staff consists of arrogant, self-righteous and two-faced power trippers. Not out of any altruistic, authentic human compassion. Let me go back to UL for a moment because this is the rationalization that these lions live off of. If the trainees knew half of what the staff was saying about them behind their back, they would storm out of Quest so fast there would be nothing but a vacuum left in their wake. I saw this happen once on staff where a trainee accidentally overheard a comment one of the office staffers made in Summit, and he was told he was being judgmental and resistant for being offended at what the prick said. These people rationalize their copious gossiping, questionable business practices and back biting because they are this world’s manifestation of God’s UL. They justify being assholes and betrayers because they believe they are UL. They will make fun of you and jab at you and when you have had enough they will blame you for being pissed off because you are not being ULing, and bless you on your path as they coldly and heartlessly kick you out of their “family”. I’ve seen it happen dozens of times and have heard of instances of it happening in ways that are appalling and almost not to be believed.

Anyhoo, thanks for reading this if you made it through. I hope it was useful.

I wanted to post this thread here simply because I think it's relevant to the unique problems that Impact causes:
[board.culteducation.com]

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question lady
Dear ex-impact...I would be most appreciative if you would provide some examples of things your friend did to help empower you to think for yourself again. If you can, it would be great if you would post under a new subject rather than Avatar help so that more people will see it. Your contribution to this board really helps my understanding. Thanks so much.

You should also look at what another user named formerimpactgrad has said concerning this. I’ve found their perspective helpful.
Well, I'm not sure if [i:fac0e2f28b]exactly[/i:fac0e2f28b] what my friends did for me would work for everyone. They used my familiarity with logic and philosophy against me. It was a combination of [i:fac0e2f28b]what[/i:fac0e2f28b] they did [i:fac0e2f28b]how[/i:fac0e2f28b] they did it. In truth, I started to see some problems within Impact and their teachings, but I rationalized them and "put them on the shelf" as Impact is wont to coach us.
The friend primarily responsible for helping me was educated first of all, and second, she had been involved with the trainings somewhat, so she knew exactly how to tailor her arguments for my particular needs. I knew she hated the place and the people, but I didn't let it affect me or our relationship. It was a source of contention, but we rarely talked about it. She would attack me in a roundabout way, giving me tidbits of logical problems with what was going on at Impact, without directly attacking it.
The problems she would present would gnaw at me because they were built on sound reasoning. For example, she once asked me why I was tolerating the negative way I was being treated and saw the way others were treated by the trainers at Impact when I would tolerate no such behavior from [i:fac0e2f28b]anyone[/i:fac0e2f28b] in my life outside of Impact.
Another one from my other friend was more blunt: "If you are supposed to love everyone unconditionally and there is no right or wrong, then you would have to support me if I decide to go out right now and kill your mother. In fact, you should [i:fac0e2f28b]want[/i:fac0e2f28b] me to do it AND perhaps give me the knife." That played to my knowledge of philosophical ethical arguments.
These are just examples. For the most part they would never attack Impact directly, allowing me to make up my own mind about the situations I would witness. One that worked on me was when I would get into "crystal clear" or “trainer” mode and be abrasively honest. They would calmly say something to the effect of: "Ok, well I respect your honest opinions of me, but do you need to act like such a dick about it? Its hard to take your criticisms and "coaching" seriously when you are being disrespectful and assume you can talk to me like a subordinate."
It’s difficult to want to give any kind of blanket answer without knowing the intimate details of the person involved, what their problems/faults were before going into their program and the exact workings of the program they are in. Most of the advice that is given on this topic I think is based on the mental conditioning techniques all (or most) of these programs implement, but I think the devil is in the details. Another problem is that when loved ones are involved with these groups, we tend to resort to desperate damage control mode, which can actually aggravate the problem rather than resolve it. This is the main reason I don’t want to post a separate thread, simply because there are subtleties in each group that have to be addressed, and Impact is the only one I consider myself to be an expert on. However I do look at threads about other programs and contribute when compelling similarities arise. More personalized help can be difficult to find online, but I will do whatever I can to help whomever, whenever :)

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hiajon
AS A PERSON WHO HAS ATTENDED IMPACT I CAN SEE WHY SOME DON'T CARE FOR IT BUT IT HAS BEEN A GOOD THING FOR ALOT OF PEOPLE IT IS NOT FOR EVERYONE BUT FOR FOLKS THAT ARE OPEN TO SOMETHING THAT COULD BE GOOD GO KEEP A OPEN MIND NO ONE FORCES YOU TO DO ANYTHING IT IS YOUR CHOICE AND IF IT WORKS FOR YOU CONGRADULATIONS IF NOT THATS PERFECT TOO LETS NOT JUDGE THIS OR ANYTHING ELSE THERE IS TOO MUCH JUDGEMENT IN THIS WORLD WHICH IS A LOT OF THE SOURCE OF CONTENTON IN OUR WORLD CAUSE SOMEONE HAS TO JUDGE EVERYTHING LOVE YOU GUYS GOOD LUCK ON YOUR LIFE PATH

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exImpact
First of all, why are you shouting? Second, why not post on the already established Impact thread, are you afraid to discuss the issues presented in that forum? Third, why the run-on sentence? Fourth, AS A PERSON WHO USED TO BRAINWASH PEOPLE LIKE YOU I KNOW EXACTLY WHY YOU REPLIED IN THIS FASHION AND THE MENTAL CONDITIONING TECHNIQUES THAT WE IMPLEMENTED AT IMPACT ARE OBVIOUSLY THRIVING WITHIN YOUR LIFE BASED ON THE TONE AND CONTENT OF YOUR COMMENT AND IF BEING MENTALLY CONDITIONED IS GOOD FOR YOU THEN YOU NEED MORE ASSITANCE/HELP/GOD-KNOWS-WHAT THAN YOU KNOW

I see no good reason to start a new thread for such an asinine statement. It’s hard to take this first guy seriously for a number of different reasons. Without pointing out misspelled words, poor grammar and a general lack of readability I'll go ahead and outline, for the record, why I think (or should I say feel so Impact people don't immediately tune me out?) hiajon has made a completely baseless statement.

1. Impact likes to brag about their virtues and results however they do so in generalities without providing any evidence or real examples. For the record, no I don't think creating an imaginary vortex over the city of Salt Lake City, claiming to spiritually stop a wildfire in a neighboring state or brainwashing people and having them dance on the fourth day of Quest count as real results. In my 3 years at Impact I never saw a single person change their life in any way except in their own mind inside the training room. In many cases people’s lives got a lot worse and they were so crazy with Impact crap that they never understood why. If you want me to believe that they accomplish anything good then show me!

2. The Impact Trainers and staff are the most judgmental people I have ever met. If judgment is causing pain and contention in the world then they have themselves to blame above all others. What ever happened to John Smart, Kimile Lavelle, Doug and Judy Moore, JJ Libbert or any others who have been unceremoniously dumped from the Impact family? Explain that and then tell me how unconditionally loving everyone is down there.

3. Impact is nothing more than a way to generate income for Hans and Sally Berger. I have seen plenty of evidence to support this statement, from the free labor or $1000 they demand from TIT 3 trainees to the Nu skin session where Hans encouraged everyone to join up and sell skin care products as a way to create abundance. How much money did Hans make from the pyramid scam on that day? Did ANYONE who joined create any form of abundance or did it simply serve to perpetuate the poverty that most active Impact graduates find themselves in?

Give me something to work with here. Have the Impact Trainings done anything for anybody that didn't cost an arm and a leg? Have they generated any kind of perceived benefit that didn't start and end inside the training room after days without sleep?

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formerimpactgrad
In my 3 years at Impact I never saw a single person change their life in any way except in their own mind inside the training room.

Exactly... your one sentence above summarizes the entire racket of Impact.

To whoever cares

If you had a bad experience with Impact then maybe it was not for you. Many things in life work for some and don't work for others. For some people Impact is a short cut through the road blocks in life. Get over what ever you think is so terrible because that is not everyones experience. So stop judging those that choose to go and be apart of this training program. Stop ruining the joy that they are creating in their own life by making their experience a negative one. Maybe you can trust your loved ones that are making an informed choice to improve their lives. Maybe they have a desire to move forward in their life. At least the people choosing to go through this program have the courage to take on their lives, why don't you do the same.