Quote
Impacted
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/60087/From-the-First-Presidency.html

In a letter dated Oct. 13, the First Presidency wrote:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We have repeatedly warned of the risks inherent in participating in so-called "self-awareness" groups sponsored by commercial enterprises that promise heightened self-esteem, improved family relationships, and increased spirituality. It has come to our attention that some of these enterprises continue to express or imply Church endorsement, thereby attracting members of the Church to their programs.
The Church has not endorsed any such enterprise. We warn that these programs are not in harmony with Church doctrine or gospel principles. Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values. (There is NO right and wrong, there's only what's "working" and not "working." There is no Hope. So you would rather be "right" (moral) than "happy?" "Is that what you're telling me??")

2. Advocate confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential. (Tear off your mask. It's time to get Honest and be Open. What's holding you back from sharing what's really there for you!!!)

3. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies. (Mary washed Christ's feet with her hair and her tears -- now it's your turn . . .)

4. Foster physical contact among participants. (Voting 4, the "Tunnel of Love," Trust falls, pulling and pushing others over the wall, "Service is the "highest form of love" -- the groping that goes on after ropes day . . .)

5. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours. (Is anything at Impact ever over before midnight???)

6. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings. (Encourage this? no. Demand it as required to stay in the course -- yes!)

7. Cause a husband or wife to be paired with other partners. (Do not sit next to anyone you knew prior to coming into this training . . .)

Once again, we counsel members against participating in such "self-awareness" activities. (I'd rather follow 10,000 hours of this counsel, than one minute of Hans' advice).

Signed by the First Presidency:

Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf

Thanks for posting this letter, the LDS church is quite clearly describing the Impact Trainings. I have yet to see a Belly Dancer or Inner Woman stretch that wouldn't be considered a challenge to "religious and moral values" (on top of everything else you mentioned in your commentary).

I posted the following because the October 6 letter is needed to understand total Church policy even better. It should be clear to all that it is the local authorities of the LDS Church that are given a madate by the October 6 letter to administer the clear policy of the October 13th letter. This clarification of policy/doctrine has to have a big IMPACT on Hans, coming over the signature of Dieter Uchdorf. Hans, til now, could always take some comfort that F. Enzio Busche was a participant in Impact trainings. Hans' German connection to any hope of LDS general authorities endorsement of the Impact Trainings is clearly destroyed.

The hit rate on this thread from Sunday night to Monday night was about 146, or about twice the already high recent daily hit rate of about 70 . Anybody wonder why?


*********
From the First Presidency
Published: Saturday, Nov. 6, 2010

The First Presidency recently sent to priesthood leaders two letters to be read in sacrament meetings.


Member communications with Church Headquarters

In a letter dated Oct. 6, the First Presidency wrote:

Dear Brethren and Sisters:

Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. By reason of their callings, local leaders are entitled to the spirit of discernment and inspiration to enable them to counsel members within their jurisdiction.

Accordingly, correspondence from members will be referred back to their local leaders for handling. Stake presidents who have need for further clarification about doctrinal or procedural issues may write to the First Presidency in behalf of their members.

It is our desire that all members will feel they have the support and guidance they need; however, all things should be done in wisdom and order. We believe that both members and local leaders will be blessed as they pray and counsel together in an effort to resolve matters of concern to them.


Signed by the First Presidency:

Thomas S. Monson

Henry B. Eyring

Dieter F. Uchtdorf



Self-awareness groups

In a letter dated Oct. 13, the First Presidency wrote:

Dear Brothers and Sisters:

We have repeatedly warned of the risks inherent in participating in so-called "self-awareness" groups sponsored by commercial enterprises that promise heightened self-esteem, improved family relationships, and increased spirituality. It has come to our attention that some of these enterprises continue to express or imply Church endorsement, thereby attracting members of the Church to their programs.

The Church has not endorsed any such enterprise. We warn that these programs are not in harmony with Church doctrine or gospel principles. Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values.

2. Advocate confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.

3. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

4. Foster physical contact among participants.

5. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.

6. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

7. Cause a husband or wife to be paired with other partners.

Once again, we counsel members against participating in such "self-awareness" activities.


Signed by the First Presidency:

Thomas S. Monson

Henry B. Eyring

Dieter F. Uchtdorf

I attended Quest in the very early 90's when I was only 13. I didn't have permission from my parents to participate. This caused a serious rift in my family for a long time. No one in leadership at Impact seamed to give a notice about anything that I did as long as they got me in the door and got some money for it. I paid a deposit from my babysitting money because I thought the training looked like fun, and the people who took me to the quest night(?) had talked it up so much. Looking back, I'm not sure how I got by with how this all worked out.

So here I am, a 13 yr old teen, doe eyed, eager and very impressionable. No one seamed bothered by the fact that. 1) I was completely alone in the training. I didn't know one person when I showed up for Quest. 2) My parents weren't paying for it. (huge red flag) 3.) I don’t remember anyone responsible asking me any questions about it.

Here is what I experienced as a teen. Hope this helps some parent out there.

First thing is: BUDDIES. Why in the world would they put a 13 yr old girl as a buddy with a 20 something single guy? Because I had no permission to do this, my 'buddy' had to pick me up and take me to training - whilst I talked his ear off and he informed me of my inability to cope with silence. (13 yr old girls don't know what silence is, by the way.) I love the way they threaten everyone with the responsibility of taking care of your buddy or else!

Second thing is the pressure to stay. One girl wanted to leave so badly she was vomiting over and over again and they seamed to be lecturing her that she was just tying to avoid dealing with her stuff, (?) she was crying and I remember being very uncomfortable with this. She did FINALY get out of there. So you can imagine the impact of watching her and knowing, that’s what you faced if you wanted to leave. Teens DO NOT do humiliation well and we avoid it at all cost.

Third – It seamed to me we were guided very early that you didn’t want to give the wrong answer, in fact you didn’t want to say anything in the ‘wrong’ way. The first person raised their hand, got made an example of. This set the tone for the rest of the training.

Fourth – when you did finally get into the hugging stuff, I remember one trainer saying. “that’s not how we hug here. You hug pee pee to pee pee.” Full body hug. Wow, I’m SURE he enjoyed teaching me that.

Now apart from anything else, on this part alone, Impact is grossly culpable for any sexual misconduct. A 13 yr old girl should NOT be giving full body hugs to ALL the people in the room. How is this EVER appropriate?! I think I will end for now, if anyone has any questions for me, I’m happy to answer. However after reading 100+ pages of this forum, I’m not sure that I can add anything other than my experience. We still wonder how legally they did that?

fromalongtimeago:

That is revolting. Did you stop at Quest I hope? I am so sorry.

Vicki - I did stop at Quest. I never paid the full amount for my training either. I find it slightly suspicious that when I went back several years later to pay the remainder of my tuition. They had absolutely no record of me being there. I think if someone owed me money I'd keep track of it. The sad thing is you do form an intense temporary bond with the people that you trained with. However, these are bonds that do not last. They aren't real. I don't have one person from Impact that I kept in contact with for any significant amount of time.

To this day my Mom gets Very upset when we bring up Impact. My heart goes out to those of you who are watching your loved ones go through this course and watch as they become addicted to the tear down/build up high. It's the same thing with abusive relationships, I think.

p.s. Is there anyone on here that could shed some light on how this happened?

p.p.s. I think that legislation should be pushed to keep minors out of these LGAT trainings.

impact apologist: "but it is their last resort...how can you be so uncaring?"

civilized thinking: Well, It is unacceptable that a minor should be buddied with an adult member of the opposite sex, period.
It is unacceptable for a minor to be hugging adult strangers.
I could go on and on, but this above is enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 04:36AM by vicki_snshne.

Quote
vicki_snshne
impact apologist: "but it is their last resort...how can you be so uncaring?"

civilized thinking: Well, It is unacceptable that a minor should be buddied with an adult member of the opposite sex, period.
It is unacceptable for a minor to be hugging adult strangers.
I could go on and on, but this above is enough.

Thanks Vicki for your perspective. Let me clarify a couple of points and hopefully someone out there with some legal experience can answer the questions regarding legal issues as well.

I didn't think that Impact was being advertised as a 'last resort' option, and they go on about not being mental health profesionals . So I'm not sure how that would be an argument. Who says that teens go to these things because they are in trouble? I went because it looked exciting.

I also don't think hugging is bad - let me make that clear. HOWEVER - when it's taught "pee pee to pee pee" I'd say that's more than unappropriate, and quite frankly a doorway for pedophiles, (and in the case of married trainees), to sexual misconduct. You can't skip this part of the training. Physical contact with the others in the group is PART of the training, they don't modify anything for minors. Therefore, it should be for adults only if they should choos to participate.

Here is the question, IF there is a permission form to be signed, because the training is "secret" no parent would know about these exercises and would be unknowingly subjecting their child to this. (let's skip the cult bit for a sec - because some people don't know what LGAT's are and they are usually blindsided by friends and family whom they 'trust') So how can this be more of a legal issue? Would in this case Legislation be appropriate?

I was taught by a wise and experienced person that in dealing with *people there is a difference between 'Sacred' and 'Secret' Things that are Sacred, (by definition dealing with god or dedicated to a religious purpose) are not talked about because they are treated with reverence, etc but are not shameful or in anyway make you feel badly. Secret's in dealing with people are never good, secrets are used to cover lies, shady business, or to hide deviant behavior. As Impact is not claiming to be a religion - and they aren't non-compete contracts - well that leaves them under the latter description. Sometimes their arguments sound like one a pedophile would use. (The mental condition they use is absolutely that of an abuser.) There argument for not telling people is flawed. If the training works it should work weather you know what's coming or not. Furthermore, in the case of minors, I wouldn't let my kid walk through that closed door without having the right to supervise what's going on in that room. PERIOD.

Perhaps unveiling the SECRET will remove the power of the cult behavior that results in this training. I think the secret is what gives them the power to control them - just as in sexual abuse it is the victims keeping of the secret that gives the abuser the power to continue to abuse. Do you see where I'm going with this?

*I say people so no one will start arguing the morality of col. Sanders 'secret' recipe or 'top secret clearance' etc. It's off the topic - so don't do it. lol

Here is the question, IF there is a permission form to be signed, because the training is "secret" no parent would know about these exercises and would be unknowingly subjecting their child to this. (let's skip the cult bit for a sec - because some people don't know what LGAT's are and they are usually blindsided by friends and family whom they 'trust') So how can this be more of a legal issue? Would in this case Legislation be appropriate?

I was taught by a wise and experienced person that in dealing with *people there is a difference between 'Sacred' and 'Secret' Things that are Sacred, (by definition dealing with god or dedicated to a religious purpose) are not talked about because they are treated with reverence, etc but are not shameful or in anyway make you feel badly. Secret's in dealing with people are never good, secrets are used to cover lies, shady business, or to hide deviant behavior. As Impact is not claiming to be a religion - and they aren't non-compete contracts - well that leaves them under the latter description. Sometimes their arguments sound like one a pedophile would use. (The mental condition they use is absolutely that of an abuser.) There argument for not telling people is flawed. If the training works it should work weather you know what's coming or not. Furthermore, in the case of minors, I wouldn't let my kid walk through that closed door without having the right to supervise what's going on in that room. PERIOD.

Perhaps unveiling the SECRET will remove the power of the cult behavior that results in this training. I think the secret is what gives them the power to control them - just as in sexual abuse it is the victims keeping of the secret that gives the abuser the power to continue to abuse. Do you see where I'm going with this?





I already wrote a few paragraphs and lost them, so these speedily written remarks below will have to suffice.

We were both teens in the early 90's.

In my experience, many peoople with severe mental illness, drug, and alcohol addiction take this training. These people then verbally claim in gatherings that impact saved their very lives. The leaders love when they say this. This allows the trainees to believe that the trainings are indispensable to their lives. However, I have seen a few trainees, first hand, and recently, decompensate to the point of needing inpatient psychiatric treatment for suicidality, and severe drug addiction.

The trainers say up front they are not mental health practitioners, etc. They have a waiver signed by participants before training begins. However, they do allow people in their trainings, a lot, with mental illness diagnoses, and drug/alcohol addictions. Everyone has their own reasons for taking the training, from curiosity, to exciting adventure, to desperation. Being desperate, whether from recent stressful life circumstances (ie job loss, loss of loved one, divorce, whatever), is exactly what trainers feed on, because that makes a trainee vulnerable to the dependency mind set that impact provides. The upper level trainees on YouTube who flaunt impact as being life transforming, are the ones perpetually continuing the impact myth.

Regardless of a trainees motivation, they are still exposed to cultic programming that LGAT's are famous for, as well as impact's twist on new age teachings at upper levels that the "family" supports, indefinitely. I was a victim of learning their mastery teachings in a secret manner. This is because the trainers make you believe it is secret information that they are they given from god, special, to know about, in order to uplift all mankind. Does this not then, sound like a cult?

Because impact is in Utah, whose major mormon culture already believes in the power of secrets, impact is at an advantage to set up shop and continue their predatory practices. Unfortunately, many utahns are apathetic to the world at large. They are the state with the least voters in the last election. (only 1 in 3 utahns even voted). They have already given their power to a supreme authority (mormon leaders) to make lifestyle choices and set a guide for their behavior. This makes them more vulnerable to Impact, because they don't think for themselves.

I don't know about legal standpoints, and haven't seen any group yet make a dent in impact legally, although when enough people are educated about LGAT's, impact will have a harder time peddling.

From a grassroots level, though, I do tell people that either have been through, or are thinking about it, or to keep in mind in the future, if they are ever accosted with the love bombing, to RUN away quickly. Seek the equivalent of the real world experiences you are looking for. If it is excitement you seek, go to a party. If curiosity, read a book. If you are desperate, seek a qualified, fully trained mental health professional where checks and balances are in place and confidentiality is upheld, but secrecy (about child abuse and other serious issues) is not tolerated.

I know Impact has a teens training now. A few years ago, and I don't know about presently, select teens aged 16 and older, were allowed to enter Quest. I think I heard they did away with the opposite sex partner bit after many concerns arose, but am not sure.

Vicki-

You are correct. At present time they only allow same gender buddies and are even hesitant to form mixed gender stretch groups.

They also have teen AND youth trainings separate from the adult training sessions. Can you imagine the damage these untrained professionals are doing to the youth in their trainings? The whole idea is they want to make your whole personal family and impact family so you can more uniformly live the vision (ie they want to do everything they can to get your money and resources) In order to enter the teen and youth trainings you have to have parent permission. Another thing about the teen and youth trainings is that because they are less intense teens and youth can enroll in these trainings as many times as they want. Some families begin looking at this as an alternative to summer camp.

They will let you enter adult quest as early as 16 years of age, but in order to make it happen you have to have already attended the youth and teen trainings or have a personal interview with one of the trainers for approval (like that really makes a difference).

I hope that information helps.

Spiritual?

Vicki -
"Because impact is in Utah, whose major mormon culture already believes in the power of secrets, impact is at an advantage to set up shop and continue their predatory practices. Unfortunately, many utahns are apathetic to the world at large. They are the state with the least voters in the last election. (only 1 in 3 utahns even voted). They have already given their power to a supreme authority (mormon leaders) to make lifestyle choices and set a guide for their behavior. This makes them more vulnerable to Impact, because they don't think for themselves."

Every voting season, in every Mormon Ward, a letter is read from the 1st Presidency encouraging people to go vote. Yes, I am Mormon, and yes I think for myself. (GASP!) It is however more likely that due to the sizes of their families and the over scheduling between church and all their children's activities they may not be as involved in the community as they should be. (true for myself).

I'm completely tolerant of other faiths and beliefs and I am bothered by generalizations across the board about them. So forgive me for jumping on that point.

"From a grassroots level, though, I do tell people that either have been through, or are thinking about it, or to keep in mind in the future, if they are ever accosted with the love bombing, to RUN away quickly. Seek the equivalent of the real world experiences you are looking for. If it is excitement you seek, go to a party. If curiosity, read a book. If you are desperate, seek a qualified, fully trained mental health professional where checks and balances are in place and confidentiality is upheld, but secrecy (about child abuse and other serious issues) is not tolerated."

Well said, and I hope that people have listened to you! How far did you go in the training? You were obviously far into it, and so I applaud you for how far you have come out of it. From what I saw it looks like they borrowed bits of everything. Reiki and Wicca seamed to dominate the uppers from what I have read in this forum.

You are obviously an intelligent and well rounded person, thanks for your feedback and for typing it twice! x


Spriitual?

"They will let you enter adult quest as early as 16 years of age, but in order to make it happen you have to have already attended the youth and teen trainings or have a personal interview with one of the trainers for approval (like that really makes a difference)."

When did this happen?? Just wondering if I somehow slipped through the cracks. Were any of you there back when I went through? 1990? If that was the policy then, I'm even more creeped out by my experience.