DisiectiPoetae,

Here's explaining a little more about glorifying Satan in response to your perfect question. In Lift Off, Sally Berger tells a little parable from, "The Little Soul and the Sun." The fly leaf of this book says, " The little Soul and the Sun is a simple and powerful story that brings children a very profound truth; there is no absolute good or bad---that underneath all that happens in the world, all that we call 'good' and all that we call 'bad' is love. Your child will discover a God that she or he can love, because God is love, as are all the Little Souls who are a part of God. And perhaps parents, too, will rediscover who they really are."

In brief, Impact is building on the there is no right and wrong theme. The character Friendly Soul in the book lowers his energy level and does demonic things, but that does not make him a deamon because he is really good because his actions are designed to benefit the little Soul. The notion promoted is that God did not create any souls that were imperfect, only perfect souls. Using this thinking there is no Satanic element in the Universe. It raises Satan to the level of a savior. Much has been written about LMT trainings about Christ and his limited roll in saving souls, who are really devine perfect souls fully capable of saving themselves.

I don't know what this notion does to Paganism, but it stands Christianity on its head. LMT folks do buy this book from Impact Trainings, so once again the profit motive is priority one.

Hopeful,

Well, that certainly was a mouthful.

Oh my. I'm trying to think of where exactly to start on that.

Okay. First of all, as I've stated before, I believe, I don't have any specified diety that plays an adverserial role in my life. I do not believe in Satan.

Alot of this falls into the category of personal beliefs. I grew up learning these things, which were passed down from quite a few generations, and, of course, I developed some beliefs of my own along the way.

My PERSONAL beliefs are that evil exists everywhere, and there is definitely a potential for evil in every person. Actions, thoughts, behaviors. The first thing we learn is that THOUGHTS ARE THINGS. It's entirely possible to create what you could call "demonic energy" that would actually react to stimuli as if it existed of it's own accord. But. I do not believe that, on a spirtual level, "beings" or "energies" exist simply to "be evil" or do harm. There has to be some sort of balance in all things. If you pull out the balancing "negative" energies in an environment, the "positive" energies have nothing to counter them, and they collapse, thus creating sort of a "black hole." It's rather complicated to explain, so I hope that makes sense.

What THAT notion does to Paganism is... TWIST IT. There IS a sort of code that states, "An' it harm none, do what thou wilt." Which... basically says... as long as what you're doing isn't hurting anyone, go for it.

Of course, there are a million holes in this theory, and from person to person, you see a lot of differing opinions on what it means, what it limits, etc. It's been said before, that trying to get Pagans to agree on something is like herding cats. And that's true. It's more of an individualized thing.

See.. the problem is... for MOST of us, we see that to mean... it can't hurt ANYONE, ANYTHING, period. The best context I can use that in atm would be... It's wrong to lie and manipulate people for financial gain. Because it hurts someone. It's wrong to litter, because it damages the environment. It's wrong to harm animals, because it hurts the animals. So, if you think about it... it's quite limiting in and of itself, in the correct context.

It seems as if that "as long as it works for you" attitude was pulled from this code... however, it's wrong, it's twisted, and it doesn't make sense.

I've come across this frame of mind several times. Where people went as far as to lie and try to cheat me out of things because "it worked for them" to do so. It didn't work for me, though... Therin lies the problem.

The only Satan in my world lies deep within the twisted minds of men.

I think Einstein said once, "Look deep into Nature, and you will understand everything better."

There is competition. There is a "kill or be killed" attitude. But, that's survival. Animals don't understand malice. To be honest, I think that this is one of the main reasons why human beings appear to be underdeveloped to me. Animals are more civilized.

Of course profit is a motive. It would have to be. Because... I can't understand how anyone could do such damaging things in the name of sincere good intent. I just can't.

Anyhow, I hope this helps. I apologize for taking so long to reply. At the moment, I'm dealing with a recurrent health problem that's taken a turn for the worst, which... leaves me in and out of the hospital for treatment sessions, with a 3 day long session coming up in a day or 2, but I'll do my best to reply when I have the chance.

Well, almost enough said on that. I just want to add the Christian perspective by quoting Romans 3:8 in part; "...Let us do evil, that good may come?..." To get the LDS spin on that, you need to look at the JST (Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible) and read the next sentence, "But this is false." This perhaps explains why I was so offended by the "twisted" doctrine in Sally Burger's use of "The Little Soul and the Sun" in the Communication block of Impact/Lift Off. I can now see in retrospect that there needed to be another character in the parable, Hopeful Soul, to say, "But this is false," to Little Soul lest Little Soul be deceived and fall into the dark world of Friendly Soul, Screwtape and Wormwood."

Once again I have learned much because of this forum. Thank you DisectiPoetae; and Thank you C.S. Lewis, who would have done great things with this topic in the Screwtape Letters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2009 04:06AM by Hopeful Soul.

Here is a link to "The Wave." Quest graduates will appreciate this short movie about cult formation and find familiarity there. It was produced in 1981. Could this have been part of the inspiration for the 1984 formation of Impact Trainings? Pay particular attention to posture (open body position), seating, actions of the teacher, procedures for sharing, exploitation of sense of group, mottos, salutes (hugs), recruitment (enrollment), monitors (buddies), testimonials. The Wave is a pattern of change of direction, movement, IMPACT. They have their homework that is Quest like. As the movie says, "It works." Is that not the Impact definition of right?


[www.youtube.com]

This thread began with a posting by seabass on 5/4/06, and since that time there have been in excess of 45,000 views. That works out to be in the nearly 38 months since that first posting, about 1200 views per month. Even in a recent week of views that I looked at there were views of this thread at the rate of about 1000 per month. Folks have an interest in this thread to a degree unequalled by any other LGAT forum I can find. I have found much accurate, useful information here, and I believe many others have found the same thing or the viewing rate would not stay so high. I claim that the purpose of this forum is being achieved; it is working very well.

Not to be an obtuse stickler, but this thread had well over 100,000 views before the attacks on the cult education site. My guess is that this thread has been viewed at least 160,000 times.

On a different note, it's hilarious to type "Impact Trainings" in Google and do an Image search, where one will find ExImpact's "I of Sauron" at the beginning. =)

>>not to be an "Obtuse Stickler<<<

LOL.

Wondering if that was your Summit Alternative Name?!?!

:)

Ed

LOL, that Google search made my day. Thanks Glaucon!

Impacted said:

">>not to be an "Obtuse Stickler<<<

LOL.

Wondering if that was your Summit Alternative Name?!?!

:)

Ed"

LOL, I didn't go through the trainings (thank all that is good)........BUT, my Mormon temple name was Josiah, I didn't manage to dodge that bullet.

Fascinating thread. I've read the whole thing over the course of the last few days. Impact sure has gone down a strange path in the 17 years since I took the trainings. Some of my favorite gems from this thread are the MLT/TIT teachings of ancient civilizations sunk by crystals of mass destruction, Hans being a super being with the power to stop forest fires with protective blue flames, civilizations living in the center of the earth, and God choosing between Hans and Joseph Smith to bring forth the Mormon religion. Funny stuff.