Okay, now I have a funny story about "Lord Archangel Michael" that I did not realize the significance of until I read your latest post, exImpact. I am no longer a believer in the religion I grew up in so certain things that I once considered "sacred" are no longer sacred to me. They probably are to some of those who post here. I respect that and I don't want to be insensitive. That being said, I had a certain blessing that most youth in my former religion obtain when they are teenagers which states I "fought beside [Archangel] Michael and the angels ..." in the pre-existence.

Until now, I could not understand why my Impact friends got excited when I disclosed my purported former association with Michael. They say I have so much potential ... I just use my mind too much and do not get in touch with my feelings enough. They were disappointed when upon holding supposedly powerful crystals, I could only report, "It just feels like a rock to me." The anti-climax was a killer! Their disappointment when I refused to sign up for Impact was tangible, notwithstanding their guaranteed reimbursement of my $500 if Impact didn't completely change my life. Impact's own walking advertisements did not impress -- none of them kept a job for long, many were addicted to prescription pain meds, frequently checked out of reality via pot or alcohol, and they saw no problem with embracing contradictory principles of the different beliefs they subscribed to. They've deluded themselves into believing they are the most self-aware of all people, yet they bounce around life like a pinball, making major life choices one day, then completely changing their minds the next based on a "feeling" from one of their angels/spirit guides or their horoscope or psychic reading. They spend tons of money, not just on Impact, but on crystals, horoscopes, readings, silly books that reinforce the BS, angel cards, etc. Of the several I have met, all are dysfunctional in their relationships and in life generally. The funny thing is, they can often see the dysfunction in other Impacters but not in themselves.

Although I can laugh a little at the insanity of it all, my underlying emotion is one of deep sympathy for these people. They have been screwed over by a greedy ego-maniac who must be a little insane himself.

As to your 1st question about est, there is a movie, currently being offered on Comcast's 'On Demand' lineup called"Transformation: the Life and Legacy of Werner Erhard." This guy created the est training, and it's the training referred to in other threads on this LGAT forum as The Forum, or Landmark Forum. Landmark is the company name, and The Forum is their 'training' similar to Quest in structure, though Quest is more similar in content to another former training called Lifespring. Both est/forum and Lifespring were distilled heavily from both Scientology and the old Mind Dynamics (plus a heaping tablespoon of Alistair Crowley). Anyway, if you can see that movie over at Comcast, you'll get a clearer idea of the history of this rather sordid industry.

A lot of different names here to Wiki. But worth the effort if you want to take the time.

Quote
jk.genesis
... a greedy ego-maniac who must be a little insane himself.

A little...no, Gonzo the muppet was a little insane. I wouldn't trust Hans with a hamster while I went on vacation for the weekend.

Quote
jk.genesis
I am no longer a believer in the religion I grew up in so certain things that I once considered "sacred" are no longer sacred to me.

That sounds familiar to me... :)

Robert "moneytrainer" Paisola put a soaking sappy vid up that has pics of inside the center, and is that a ropes or lifeboat, or either, course at 5:10?

(warning, turn the mute button on):

[video.google.com]


Weirdness:

[www.youtube.com]


A site with links to different pro Impact sites with recent activity (go to the right side of the page):

[www.besttopmanagement.com]


One strange take on Impact Trainings:

[www.yelp.com]


For people who haven't seen the center or read the testimonials and who are trying to help someone out, I thought these sites gave me a better idea into the "Impact" world.

Glaucon,

Thanks for the Yelp reviewer's link. I used it to help me formulate a post at ImpactTrainingsCritic.com.

I would very much welcome anyone to comment on any of the posts [...]

Much love,
ITcritic



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2008 07:54AM by rrmoderator.

ImpactTrainingsCritic:

Don't post email address information here.

Didn't you read the rules before clicking on "agree"?

There is private messaging and also you may post here and people may respond publicly or privately per their choice.

Thanks to all of you for the info and answers to my questions. It's almost overwhelming. I checked out those links and it's all such a load of BS. It's like Impact is just another MLM that destroys real people and sells them a new fake personality. Somedays I feel perplexed by it all, trying to figure out how people can be so deluded, feeling bad for them, feeling angry at the perpetrators. Other days, I just don't give a sh#%. BTW, I love the comparison between Hans and Gonzo. Hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

I do think that members of the local predominant faith are often more susceptible to recruitment and buying the whole Impact line, simply because it is understood that sometimes disturbing facts (i.e. how many wives did the founder have who were married to other men) are not to be questioned, but are to be accepted on faith. It seems to me that when one is accustomed to accepting certain contradictory "truths" solely on authority, and when asking certain questions and reasoning issues out in one's own mind is not considered a virtue but rebellion, that belief creates fertile ground for an exploiter such as Hans. Just my two cents, which is probably all its worth, if that.

Impact Trainings Critic did not post an email address, but a Web page address. Isn't that permitted under the rules? I visited it and liked what I saw in a brief scan.

Hopeful,

I had put one in but the moderator had to remove it. It was a simple mistake. Thanks moderator for doing your job. This is a great forum.

Hopeful - I've enjoyed your posts and those of the others. This is a great forum. I hope to be able to network along with the others and see what we can't all do to right some wrongs.

-ITcritic

Hopeful, it looks like the moderator edited out the offending email address.

Jk, I agree with you that certain aspects of the dominant religion in the area do make it easier for groups like Impact to recruit. But I think there are a number of other theologies that also teach mind-bending ideas that make their members more susceptible to accepting or just not sensing logical falacies and circular thinking.

The fact that a certain daytime TV queen can have a great following concerning her own mix of contradictory religious theories makes it clear that a large number of people are susceptible to these problems. I feel that the majority of people are taught by teachers and churches to accept authority and to doubt themselves when in conflict with authority.

I'm thinking out loud on these next thoughts, so if you see major flaws in my thought process, please give constructive criticism rather than insult me. Thank you in advance.

It seems that there are power and control struggles in a large portion of life. Teachers want to lead their classes; police want people to slow down on the freeway; and parents don't want mutinous teenagers. But because of these struggles over whose rules and boundaries are followed, people seem to become almost numb to the idea that they shouldn't have strangers or friends trying to manipulate them.

Now in healthy power struggles such as children pushing boundaries to experiment with their parents' rules, they are taught to follow even if they don't see what's wrong with crossing the road without looking or staying out too late at night. Eventually, their perspective changes and they can see the benefit and reason behind those rules (or some of them anyway). I know from my experience that Impact took advantage of that kind of experience, promising that we would "get" it later, if we just "floated through the chatter of our ego minds" (ignored the bells going off in our minds saying something's not right).

Now a large number of people are subjected to unhealthy power and control struggles from abusers who can be parents, friends, bosses, spouses and pretty much anyone they meet. Most of us have had someone attempt to cross the line in attempt to take our power away or control us in inappropriate ways. Hopefully we weren't looking to that person to fulfill a need such as love or a paycheck.

I wonder if the prevelence of healthy, borderline and downright abusive power struggles in most individuals' lives makes it difficult for them to accept the depth of the criminal abuse that goes on in groups like Impact. Does it make it harder for some people to believe that Impact holds a friend emotionally hostage in a similar way that a battered (or emotionally battered) spouse stays married by stripping them of their faith in themselves and ability to live without them? Does it make people who already have trust in the facilitators less willing to realize what's happening in the group? That they are being manipulated to do and believe things contrary to their own good?

Is it that some people see abusive struggles for control a normal part of life and don't see it coming when the cult leading con-artist preys on them. And is it that other people couldn't imagine letting the struggle for power be allowed in the first place and are therefore less compassionate to those who are swept up into a cult?

Or is it just the old "not me" problem that people don't want to believe they could have the manipulation happen to them so they need to "find" a reason why another person fell victim to they can believe that they themselves would never fall for a cult that makes some people disbelieve that the cult victims couldn't just walk away and laugh it off. Do they then blame the victim which may in turn make the victim disbelieve themselves and therefore be open to more cult abuse from the same or another group? Is that it?

I guess that was more than one thought. I realize that this says a lot about how my experiences and how I view the world. If you don't know by now I was raised in a cult and was just moved from one abusive control group to another, hoping in their promises because that's what I taught to do. One of them was bound to get right, right? Wrong!

I know now that it's not about theology or even what good works a group might do, it's about how much control is taken away from individuals that's the real measure of a group's real value and probably purpose. The means, not the objective, tells the heart of any group or church.

Sorry, stepping off that soapbox now.