Don't Love Impact... I also kept in contact with a number of people from my group and from what I saw; the people that left Impact without going into the Trainer in Training series generally experienced very little long-term effects from the program. Those that continued often never recognized the hypocrisies in the Impact Trainings use of terms like "Integrity" and "Being your word". It was those people that saw their lives fall into ruin. When they were in the Impact Training room they would talk about all the wonderful things in their lives, but for most it was a very different story when they were anywhere else.

I was once chastized for not "being my word" and not having integrity because I brought the wrong version of the Neil Diamond song "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" into the training room for a process. The staff member that chastised me ended up being excused by the Impact administration a few months later for using the training and its late hours as a way to cheat on his spouse with another volunteer staff member.

The Impact trainers talk a lot about clairvoyance and "natural knowing" which is defined by Hans Berger as "I don't know how I know, I just know". According to Hans, people can know all truth by getting in touch with their own "natural knowing". The obvious question is that if the trainers use "natural knowing" in their lives and the principle is true, then how does a sexual deviant end up on the volunteer staff? As a final note, this staff member was the first of four volunteer staff members that were excused for sexual misconduct while I was involved with the Impact Trainings. Two of those four were staff captains and members of the Trainer in Training level 3 staff.

Eximpact and others that are out: My wife is currently leaving tomorrow night to attend the 2nd series of training (I'm guessing this is Summit)?

I didn't find out she was in Impact trainings until she didn't come home and let me know she was in SLC and would be there for a few days for a "self help course". I finally talked to her a day later and found out that it was impact trainings. The research I did at the time was nothing considered to what i've discovered today on this forum.

But even the earliest research made my stomach turn and my mind race at what kind of methods they used to condition my wife. Unfortunately, my wife's best friend is a graduate of the 1st and 2nd series. She's been preaching this crap to her for months now.

Her first course was just 2 weeks ago. She claims that "someone paid the majority of her training because they wanted her there" and she only had to pay $300.00 plus her own flight. She finally mentioned that most of her original group managed to sign up also. I believe Siff is the name of her group leader.

anyway, I'm fighting hard right now to meet with her and convince her this is the wrong thing. She's already moved in with her friend now.

I've printed this stuff out and plan to approach her with it tonight. She already doesnt talk to me about it because she knows how "negative" I am towards this training and their methods.

Please, any advice or knowledge to use going into this would be appreciated.

- Addison_Guy

Talking someone out of the Impact Trainings can be difficult at first. Without knowing more about you and your spouse it is difficult to give specific advice but I'll post a couple of things that may be of help.

One of the charts that is posted and used in the Quest training is:

Reasons
VS
Results

The main thrust of the chart is that people, and organizations, either create the results that they want or come up with excuses. Like many themes in the Impact Trainings, the basic concept holds true but the application is completely screwed up. The Impact Trainings cannot produce results that validate their claims of success. They will cite the number of people that have gone through their program but I have never seen any evidence that any of these people have received any kind of benefit from the training.

In addition to the lack of quantifiable training results, there is plenty of evidence that the Impact Trainings has a history of dishonest and questionable business dealings. For specific documentation see the main page that lists tax liens and lawsuits against the company.

She will have been trained to "look at her own experience". Essentially, this means that she will want to rely on her own feelings which she will undoubtedly express to you. My advice is to ask her to wait 2-3 months before going on to the next training. The mental conditioning is such that if it is not reinforced quickly and frequently it soon fades. If the training results are legitimate then she will still have the desire to continue with the trainings in a few months. If her desire fades then the mental conditioning angle holds water.

I have seen more marriages torn apart by the Impact Trainings than I can count on both hands. There is even a therapy group here in Salt Lake City that specializes in "Impact Divorces". I only mention this to give you additional perspective on the trainings' effect on couples.

If she is intent on going into Summit tell her to hold on to her last stick in the life boat process. She will know what this means when the process is fully explained. Ask her to tell as many people in her group as possible that they "deserve" to hold on to their last lifeboat stick. The emotional trauma suffered by the trainees that do not hold on to their lifeboat stick is something that I would not wish on my worst enemy. Many trainees express feeling suicidal tendencies the night after lifeboat.

Also, Teri Smart (one of the summit trainers) had a woman thrown out of Trainer in Training 3 because she suspected that the woman was having an affair with her (Teri's) husband. It became apparent later on that her husband, also a trainer in training 3 staff member, was indeed having an affair but it was with a completely different Impact grad. I apologize if this story sounds convoluted but the bottom line is that Teri wrongfully accused someone of having an affair with her husband. The woman was thrown out of the "Impact Trainings Family" as a result of the accusation and in the end it was completely unfounded.

This is just one example of the hypocrisy that exist within the training.

addison_guy,

The Impact Trainings commonly distributes coupons for $250 off the Quest tuition. Just in case your wife felt like she was being singled out and special, no one paid for a portion of her training, its one of the "recruiting tools" that is commonly used to get people into Quest.

FormerImpactGrad,
thanks much. I appreciate the information. We've talked about it and she's considering her options. She actually started unpacking this morning but thinks that there could be some good out of going. I'm really trying to impress her how dangerous it is and the analogy from the first post on this page. Its all in her hands now.

The biggest hypocritcal notion I see so far is that they told her not to make any new business decisions or new relationships for 30 days, but she should make a decision of a hard sell to entire their mind altering training less than 2 weeks from graduating summit?

Addison_guy,

Good Luck. I never noticed that hypocrisy before but you are right on. If a trainee is not stable enough to make major decisions, then how can they be expected to choose wisely in committing to more training? The last day of every level of training is largely devoted to pressuring trainees into moving on to the next level.

Each level of training has specific processes designed to get trainees to commit to moving on. As a volunteer staff member I was told on multiple occasions that I should not give any "power" to a trainee's reasons for not moving forward. Everything is a mere "consideration" that must be worked through. There is definitely an attitude that any trainee electing to postpone training is "selling out" and giving in to less important things.

In one instance a trainee had a family member living in Show Low, AZ. Show Low was being threatened by wildfires at the time and the trainee was choosing not to continue on to Summit because they felt that they were needed in Show Low. Hans Berger, the owner and Quest Trainer, applied the standard Impact pressure and even promised to use "spiritual tools" to stop the wildfires if the trainee would commit to moving on to Summit. The trainee went to Show Low anyway and was used thereafter as an example of someone who "chose out of their life". Hans then took credit for stopping the fires with "the blue flame of protection". This story is also used to justify Hans' claims about himself and his "power".

I'll finish by quoting Hans in a Trainer in Training discussion, "I am God". If you're wondering what he could have meant by this statement or if I am taking his out of context, I assure you that he meaning is exactly how it sounds.

Word, formerimp-G, word. I concur. Additionally, addison_guy, I would like to emphasize what was said about your wife waiting 3 months or so to go through Summit if she is still hell bent on it. The main con they run to keep people in is that their group is now literally their family. They even coach staff members who did not go through their whole trainings with their families to commit a lie of omission when sharing their experiences about moving onto the next level of training. This concept of family and belonging is the heart of insecurity in people and Impact rides it like a two dollar ho...rse. This false sense of family is spurred by the now intimate knowledge of pain and life experience the trainees now share. Now, simply having empathy and knowledge does not mean you are now family, nor do you have to go through this program to unlearn apathy and ignorance. Anyone can have empathy and knowledge for the human condition, and if you are intelligent, one should assume this condition is running in the background of every human. Sorry for stating the obvious, but you can see how the apathetic and the ignorant can be the most easily duped by this program. The [i:dca0592558]possibility[/i:dca0592558] that she may fit into one or both of those categories to some degree can be a rude awakening for your wife, but it has to happen sometime.

I have stated that the Lifeboat is the most damaging and traumatizing process in Quest or Summit. I re-emphasize formerimp G's advice to you if your wife should choose to go.
Also, TIT 3ers get three 300$ quest coupons to distribute as they wish per year, and many tend to make it seem as if they are paying the 300$ out of pocket.

Best wishes addison_guy, feel free to message this board with all of your concerns. I'll be monitoring it frequently untill you report some kind of resolution of this problem, and I will help you in any way I can through this forum.

Also former, at least Hans didn't screw up like the Beatles and say that he was bigger than Jes...oh...wait...nm.

One of my friends has recently gotten involved in this training. One of her "good friends" had told her that it really changed her life and my friend should really go... In fact, this other girl paid the fee for the Quest training. This weekend she is at the Summit training. She keeps telling all of us concerned friends that if we have any questions we can call the center or go to her Tuesday night meeting...
I sent her this website and she wouldn't even look at it. I sent it to her sisters that she lives with and one did not even respond to me while the other seemed concerned. I am sure her other sister is already getting involved.
My friend has changed drastically even after the first training. She is in danger of losing her job because of her attitude towards her manager and other people she works for....
SOme of my other friends want to go to this Tuesday night meeting just to see what the heck she is in to. Is that unwise? Will they end up getting sucked in as well? Does anyone have any insight on this? Thanks so much! This forum has helped us understand what she is getting herself into....

Unfortunately the Tuesday night meetings don't shed much light on what really goes on inside the training room. They'll probably have everyone mingle and introduce themselves using an alternate name. They will draw a picture of a heart or a diamond and make a comparison to an individual soul. From there they will have everyone pair up and the "investigators" will discuss some topics like, "talk about a time when you felt ashamed". The topics and activities change slightly but the general pitch is the same in each Tuesday night presentation.

The changes that you have seen in your friend are pretty much the norm for recent graduates. They have a new arrogance about them and have a hard time working within their normal lives. The Impact Trainings are all about instant gratification so the idea of being patient and improving situations in the long-term is considered to be foolish and a waste of effort because people are taught that they can have whatever they want NOW. As a trainee continues through the various levels things tend to get worse rather than better.

I'm not going to tell you not to go to the meeting. Know going in however that the techniques employed in the Impact Trainings are designed to be manipulative and create a "hard sell" environment where people are pushed to pay for the Quest Training "as an act of commitment toward improving their lives". Whatever happens, decide going in that you are not going to sign up that night. If you have questions, please post them on here and someone will respond quickly. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance!

I've spent some time lately reflecting on why I think the Impact Trainings are such a destructive force in the lives of their trainees and I came up with a couple of reasons that I wanted to post on here. These ideas have probably been hinted at in prior posts but I don't know if the message has come across as clearly as I think it needs to. As a result, I submit the following:

On the first day of Quest the trainer introduces the training by saying something to the effect of, "What happens in this training room is real life. Make no mistake, what happens here is an absolute reflection of all of your real lives...” The meaning is that each person can evaluate their lives and determine success or failure based on the feedback and "results" that they generate in the training room. The idea is that a trainee can learn to "be a winner" in the training room and use those skills to "be a winner" in real life. This principle is reinforced repeatedly throughout the various levels of training.

This idea creates a cycle that keeps people coming back to the Impact Trainings. Many of the people in my various groups would encounter intense conflicts at work and at home that they may not have experienced before. Their conditioned response to this conflict was to bring it up in the training room and search for guidance. The trainers and staff were always willing to give advice but any problems caused by the advice would lead the trainers to shift blame back to the trainee. As a result, the trainer would attempt to hold the trainee to a twisted type of accountability and offer more advice on the situation. This tendency leads many of the trainees to lean even more heavily on what was said by the trainer. In the mind of the trainee it was not the poor advice offered by the trainer that lead to a poor result but rather a lack of "clarity" on the part of the trainee that lead to a misunderstanding of what the trainer was saying and subsequently caused a failure in application.

From time to time, trainees would talk about experiencing tremendous "breakthroughs" in various areas of their lives. However, within several days, weeks or months the trainee would inevitably begin to talk about running into the same issues that they were having problems with in the beginning.

I realize that this may seem like a lengthy explanation but please bear with me. The trainees are taught to measure success "by results" however any and all "results" in the training room are completely manufactured by the Impact Trainers and staff. Any interaction that a trainee makes while in the training room will be construed as either a success or failure based entirely on the desired results of a particular process. Eventually, possibly subconsciously, the trainee begins to manufacture their own "results" based on what they think they should be experiencing as a result of their Impact training. On several occasions I heard people discuss their poverty, impending divorces and even suicides of family members in a way that completely absolved them of any responsibility. While it is not healthy to dwell on tragedy, the trainees were manufacturing their own version of what was going on and never recognizing the personality flaws that lead to the tragedy in the first place.

Verbally, Impact trainings champions accountability but the environment that they set up is completely contrary to their words and inevitably leads trainees to become some of the most unaccountable people on the face of the earth. They can justify and rationalize anything which leads them to be everything that they were trying not to be in the first place. The only difference now is that they see themselves through the rose colored rationalities that the Impact Trainings has taught them to use when interacting with the rest of the world, and the cycle goes on and on...

Finally, once a trainee has reached a level of perversion so great (not all get there but I saw enough to last me a lifetime) that Impact sees their involvement in the training as a detriment to the business model, then the trainers and staff wash their hands of the person altogether and ask them not to come back.

Impact creates an environment where real accountability is thrown to the wayside which leads people to do things that they would never have done before, then they release that person into the world with no guidance or support once they see that person as a potential liability. Creating the monster is bad enough, releasing it and claiming to have had nothing to do with it is even worse.

I don't see a reason to list specifics at this point. I referenced a few in prior posts but if anyone has any thoughts or questions, I would love to hear them and I would be happy to address them.