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formerimpactgrad
don'tlikeimpact...most of the time when I come across someone removed from the training who talks about benefits that they received from Impact they are still seeing things through conditioned eyes. I think I can speak with some degree of experience because I felt the same way for a time. I eventually realized that the only benefits that I received were the result of my decision to learn hard lessons as my life and the lives of those around me went straight to hell due to our association with the Impact Trainings. I eventually came to the conclusion that while I may have "learned something" from my Impact experience, I cannot use that as a basis for saying that the trainings were beneficial because I am constantly learning and improving myself anyway. While it is true that I am a different person as a result of the destruction that occured around me I do not see the Trainings as a positive influence for being the source of this destruction. For those who disagreee with my position on this topic I offer the following analogy; I could get mugged, beaten and have my house burn down all in the same day and I would recover and learn something from the experience however I would not go and say that the mugger, the attacker and the fire were blessings in my life. Based on what you wrote in earlier posts it sounds like you may be caught in the same cycle that I was in for a time but I've been wrong before...

I really like how you explained this. It speaks to my own thoughts, which I couldn't exactly verbalize; they've been swirling around, unorganized and I glimpse them whenever people ask about or testify that, despite the negatives of LGATs, there are also positives. It somehow seems tricky to me to explain why the hard learning from these experiences is not a good thing. Afterall, isn't all learning good? You said it really well.

skeptic

For example, I can say that I have learned to be much more discerning. I am now educated about some mind control techniques and I think I'll be able to spot them in the future. No matter. I don't forsee a day when I will have one positive thing to say about what I "learned" in an LGAT.

skeptic

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RaCeR---X
Just a quick question, What is the symbol and sign of of a hand holding up four of its five fingers?? What does it mean, represent, etc??

it means a great big love bomb hug.

On the second to last day of training you fo the hug circle.....two concentric cricles people facing eachother....you vote on the amount of contact you want with the person across from you 1-no contact 2- eye contact 3-hand shake 4-a big "pee pee to pee pee" hug, they actually use that term....you vote by holding up the amount of fingers you hold up in front of you....i have seen many graduates use the 4 fingers held up over their heart as a "hug" from a distance or a sign of support

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RaCeR---X
Just a quick question, What is the symbol and sign of of a hand holding up four of its five fingers?? What does it mean, represent, etc??

There is a process in the Quest training where the trainees and the staff circle up in a double circle resembling an O inside an O shape. They face each other and are instructed to acknowledge each other in one of four ways. They signify how they will acknowledge each other by raising their right hand and voting with how many fingers they put up (this is a silent process). A one finger vote denotes that the two people facing each other make no eye contact. A two finger vote denotes mere eye to eye contact should be shared between those who stand opposite from each other. Three fingers signify eye-contact and a handshake, and a four-fingered vote means a hug. Sometimes the trainer will joke about how a five fingered vote belongs in the bedroom with a spouse etc. One ring rotates clockwise, the other counter-clockwise, and sometimes they will make the group vote and then rotate the circle another person down, but the trainer insists the same vote stand for the unintended person. The trainer will then say something to the effect of: "How does that make you feel to give this vote to this person who you otherwise yada yada...". Then the circles break up into a mingle and each person is to vote five or so more people they had not voted before now. [b:3da10672d6]The four fingered salute is a touchless hug[/b:3da10672d6], and if you are to have success and approval in this program, you had better condition yourself to be willing to give this vote to everyone on the planet.

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skeptic

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formerimpactgrad
don'tlikeimpact...most of the time when I come across someone removed from the training who talks about benefits that they received from Impact they are still seeing things through conditioned eyes. I think I can speak with some degree of experience because I felt the same way for a time. I eventually realized that the only benefits that I received were the result of my decision to learn hard lessons as my life and the lives of those around me went straight to hell due to our association with the Impact Trainings.....

I really like how you explained this. It speaks to my own thoughts, which I couldn't exactly verbalize; they've been swirling around, unorganized and I glimpse them whenever people ask about or testify that, despite the negatives of LGATs, there are also positives. It somehow seems tricky to me to explain why the hard learning from these experiences is not a good thing. After all, isn't all learning good? You said it really well.

skeptic

I agree fully with skeptic here. In previous posts I've tried to articulate the process, and although I think what I've shared is valid, you wrapped it up more tidily than I.

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formerimpactgrad
I have obtained several documents from the state courthouse detailing various tax liens, lawsuits against and judgments for and against the Impact Trainings Corp and/or Hans and Sally specifically. Is it possible to post these documents in PDF format on this website? All of the documents are a matter of public record.

While I have been able to obtain state records, I have had a more difficult time obtaining Federal records. Assuming that each state tax commission lien also has a federal counterpart, there are likely more and larger judgments against the group than what I have been able to obtain so far. Does anyone have any suggestions for obtaining the federal records?

It looks like there is a current lawsuit by a former employee named Earl Seeley. Last I saw Impact had been forced to pay Earl 19k, but it looks like there are still some judgments pending. I will post the documents that I have if I can get clearance from RR and also make a post with the next court date in case anyone wants to attend!

My mouth is watering in anticipation for this information. Very cool. It’s surprising about Mr. Earl Seeley. He was still around before I left Impact and was an active TITer. As far as I know, he was also seriously dating senior Summit trainer Pamela Bushman (now Roberts I hear) but I could be mistaken. As close as I was with others in the office, some things were very taboo topics.

Thank you all for keeping this thread alive. It is profoundly appreciated.

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jtaylormade

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RaCeR---X
Just a quick question, What is the symbol and sign of of a hand holding up four of its five fingers?? What does it mean, represent, etc??

it means a great big love bomb hug.

On the second to last day of training you fo the hug circle.....two concentric cricles people facing eachother....you vote on the amount of contact you want with the person across from you 1-no contact 2- eye contact 3-hand shake 4-a big "pee pee to pee pee" hug, they actually use that term....you vote by holding up the amount of fingers you hold up in front of you....i have seen many graduates use the 4 fingers held up over their heart as a "hug" from a distance or a sign of support

Hello jtaylormade! Saw your post on this thread a long while back. Did you take the Impact trainings or is this a similar process provided by another LGAT?

I did not take the impact training in Utah but I did complete 2 levels of an LGAT that is a carbon copy or vice versa...Accelerate Trainings in Concord Ca. formerly called IImpact with 2 I's. Owned by John Hanley Sr. himself the creator of Lifespring. From all I have read on this site and others these two seem almost like mirrors much more so than Landmark. But all Lgats regardless; deceiving people for money and practicing therapy without a license. The main difference I see is Impact in Utah seems to take on more of a religious nature in the higher levels where as Accelerate stays more secular but not any less harmful it seems.

Seems like the Hug Line is used in several Lgats...I do remember it being so overwhelming and exhausting and it seemed like it would never end. At the time I'm not sure we wanted it to end though. unlike the LifeBoat exercise which was just as overwhelming and draining, that one couldn't end soon enough, I'm curious was the Life Boat exercise done at Impact as well?

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jtaylormade
I did not take the impact training in Utah but I did complete 2 levels of an LGAT that is a carbon copy or vice versa...Accelerate Trainings in Concord Ca. formerly called IImpact with 2 I's. Owned by John Hanley Sr. himself the creator of Lifespring. From all I have read on this site and others these two seem almost like mirrors much more so than Landmark. But all Lgats regardless; deceiving people for money and practicing therapy without a license. The main difference I see is Impact in Utah seems to take on more of a religious nature in the higher levels where as Accelerate stays more secular but not any less harmful it seems.

Seems like the Hug Line is used in several Lgats...I do remember it being so overwhelming and exhausting and it seemed like it would never end. At the time I'm not sure we wanted it to end though. unlike the LifeBoat exercise which was just as overwhelming and draining, that one couldn't end soon enough, I'm curious was the Life Boat exercise done at Impact as well?

Oh yeah. Lifeboat (in my opinion) is the most traumatizing conditioning process that the Impact trainings employ. It's like three Quest feedback arcs rolled into one. Impacts "hug bomb circle" is pretty mild. Lifeboat makes most people sob, others vomit and a few come back the next training day claiming they considered suicide the night after the process.
Impact is definitely the copy of Lifespring.

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exImpact
Lifeboat makes most people sob, others vomit and a few come back the next training day claiming they considered suicide the night after the process...

So people go through a process that makes them consider suicide and yet they come back the next day??? I swear, humanity is whacked.

By the way, how do you think Hans and Sally celebrated the holidays? LMAO

From what I've gathered by talking to other people who have attended various LGAT's, it seems like most of them are fairly similar. The Red/Black game, Lifeboat and corny skits or "stretches" seem to be fairly common.

It looks like the court documents have been posted on the main site:

[www.culteducation.com]

I still want to get specific minutes for some of the cases, but the documents that are already posted seem to validate several of the claims that are commonly made about the company, ie non-payment of taxes and questionable business dealings. If anyone has suggestions for obtaining some of the federal documents I would love to hear them.

I've been out of there for awhile now....PHEW!!!

I had an experience that just leaves the bitterest taste in my mouth. It was when I got out of Summit. We were told about a mandatory meeting on Valentines Day. (We had to go to one of those Guest Presentations) and there was NO WAY any of us could have gotten out. We had to give our word that we would attend. I wouldn't give my word because I had given my word to my husband that we were going overnight somewhere to celebrate LOVE
:wink: :D

Anyways, I remember raising my hand and bringing up the fact that I needed to be my word to my husband and that I couldn't come that night. (I first got chewed out by about 3 people for using the word "need"). The first thing the trainer said to me was "Pick up your book and get out! " I'm pretty sure he screamed it.

This was the point that it dawned on me the control they had on people. I looked into about 10 peoples eyes and saw the empathy they had for me, but everyone was scared spitless. 2 stood and challenged the trained and where shut down immediately.

I stood up and said..."So do you want me to have real Integrity or just Impact Integrity....because to be my Word....then I need to be my word." I started to walk out....

What happened to rational people (I wasn't one! because I had been brainwashed at this point that maybe I was wrong.....was I? I kept asking myself that.) I ended up NOT going to the meeting. (That would have been the end of my marriage if I would have!) And yet I still returned to the place where I knew something screwy was taking place in there.

But this has been on my mind and pops into it frequently. Any normal, rational person would have worked with me on this.....but not Impact, they used some psycho twisted control on me and the rest of my group to think that there was nothing wrong to Not be your word to your family as long as you were to Impact.

I hate that place.

Being out as long as I have and having kept contact with multiple people, I have seen nearly no improvement among any of them....and much worse behavior among several. It's very sad. All that $$ to try to change and end up worse than you started :(