I concur with Madshus about everything on his last post. Not that he needs my validation, but hey, when you're right, you're right. Right? (Mad, if you are a her, I'm sorry for the lingual bias. As for what I am, I wont tell :) )

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exImpact
I concur with Madshus about everything on his last post. Not that he needs my validation, but hey, when you're right, you're right. Right? (Mad, if you are a her, I'm sorry for the lingual bias. As for what I am, I wont tell :) )

Hi ex... no worries, and you have it correct in that I am a 'he'.

I know you don't care to reveal any detail that may reflect who you really are, and I respect that, but I must ask why... why are you worried if others find out who you are? More specifically, what are the actions you fear from others (the others being Impact 'personnel'). Would they try and harm you in some way for speaking your free and clear mind, etc? Are there specific things you know they would try to do?

ok...That made me smile (and laugh)

There's the deal. I have read the thread. Several times and I guess why I said the nice things I did about Impact was because there are a couple of things that it did for me.....it got me out of a rut. A rut that I couldn't have gotten out otherwise??....NO WAY. I would have done it eventually on my own....I'm not a dummy.

I am definitely on the same side you are. I would actually like to crusade against IMPACT. Not for how bad it screwed me up but for what it did to my friends.

In my group there were about 9 people that got divorced within months of Impact. My closest friend I've ever had..... went through it with me...well, she had an affair while staffing another groups entire lift-off. She is in the middle of it and it makes me so very very ill that I HATE IMPACT. I do blame them because they convinced her that there is no such thing as right or wrong. I did notice that whole "there is no right or wrong...there is no sin....only things that work or don't work." from Justin in Quest!

Ok...that goes against my core beliefs (I guess you can guess that I'm LDS). HUGE RED FLAG. I'm not into "everything is relative". I believe in absolute truth. I have no idea why I let this slide, although I was very vocal to my group that this idea was NOT TRUTH!

(dang...I keep getting sidetracked)

Anyway, the heart break that is about to enter my friend's family because of this affair is devastating! And of course Impact isn't around to pick up the pieces. As for the other 9 divorces......everyone in the group seems to argue that it was inevitable and I got sucked into that belief at the time. But it's not true. These people began believing that they were the only enlightened people on the planet and their spouses were inferior somehow. It broke my heart to see the misuse of their new found "power". This "power" that Impact gives people is so misused that it's scary. That is what I find the worst about it.

(Give me a second to collect my thoughts and I more to say)

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Madshus

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exImpact
I concur with Madshus about everything on his last post. Not that he needs my validation, but hey, when you're right, you're right. Right? (Mad, if you are a her, I'm sorry for the lingual bias. As for what I am, I wont tell :) )

Hi ex... no worries, and you have it correct in that I am a 'he'.

I know you don't care to reveal any detail that may reflect who you really are, and I respect that, but I must ask why... why are you worried if others find out who you are? More specifically, what are the actions you fear from others (the others being Impact 'personnel'). Would they try and harm you in some way for speaking your free and clear mind, etc? Are there specific things you know they would try to do?

Yes, I'm also wondering....but I do have an interesting story to tell.

I know of someone that was approaching their last weekend of Lift-off. They were starting to hear about TIT and all the pressure to go. They went to Sally and Hans to ask questions about what it taught. They were not satisfied with the answer they got so they came to this board. (They posted in this thread actually) and when they went back to the Impact building, they were called into the office and this very website was on the board .....with their post dead-center!

He confessed that he wrote it....he was immediately kicked out of Impact and told to NEVER come back. He missed his Celebration.

Then Hans and Sally went in and told the Group that he "choose out". An out and out LIE! I did hear this second hand...but I know it's true because I saw some very very upset and distraught people.

The emotional damage of.....There people are Gods! I trust them, they know everything. And in one second they are thrown out the door and then lie to their entire "family" about what took place.

It's quite sickening really. But obviously they lurk here...they are watchful etc.

I did get sucked into their vocabulary for awhile. Quite comical actually now that I look back on it. It made me so sick that "my family" would correct each other in the middle of someone's break through!

Someone would be center stage....bawling like a baby...trying to get someout out, but NO...someone from the group or the trainer would stop them to make them repeat the sentence using the word "assist" instead of "help". Of course the person becomes so side-tracked that they become flustered and sit down. (I'm laughing now remembering how comical it was.)


You are right about FEEDBACK and their techniques.

Also, I really understand what you mean about how if one part is corrupt, the whole thing is. I believe that now. (I really did get sucked into it for about 6 months)

From my perspective (which is very Christian), you don't give people feedback with the venom and hatred that they insist on. At one point during feedback, me and one of my buddies were giving neutral feedback and we were told to stop being wussies...GIVE IT TO THEM...TELL THEM WHAT YOU REALLY THINK. It was the most evil feeling I've ever had. My whole spirit was screaming for lease from that Hellish environment. (I'm sorry if this is coming across too religious....:/) But....the spirit told me directly.....Feedback only works with gentleness and persuasion. This is NOT the way. I'm sure that we caused plenty of people trauma that they will never get over. And because those "devils" were on my back, I was saying things that I didn't even mean or believe. ARGGGHHHH....

Another thing about the empowerment. I have a neighbor that did the training also last year. She was very very timid and mousy before her training and suddenly she was EMPOWERED. Finally she felt like she could show her ex-husband a thing or two and a few of her friends. She she proceeded to become a bully. Telling people right and left what was wrong with them, telling them how stupid they were, how she wasn't going to take it anymore etc.

I was sooo shocked and saddened by this experience. I took her in private and told her that here "empowerment" was not power but weakness. Powerful means diplomatic, sensitive, appropriate, forgiving and empathetic. She had no idea what I was talking about. The only thing she got from Impact was assertiveness and selfishness. Very very sad.

I could go on.

How can I tell if I'm still damaged. I really don't think I am. But I'm open to anything you have to offer that would give me clues. (I think it was because I wasn't so harsh in the beginning and that I admited that I learned a thing or two...but hey...so did you!! To quote you..."I can say I have had some little long-term benefit from taking the Trainings, but compared to the damage I recieved....." This statement is exactly where I'm at.

I won't get you started on Victims and accountability....but I did watch Justin put lots of people in their place when they started with their "stories". Maybe I'm not too harsh in that department because it completely amused me. :shrug

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="don'tloveimpact"
How can I tell if I'm still damaged. I really don't think I am. But I'm open to anything you have to offer that would give me clues. (I think it was because I wasn't so harsh in the beginning and that I admited that I learned a thing or two...but hey...so did you!! To quote you..."I can say I have had some little long-term benefit from taking the Trainings, but compared to the damage I recieved....." This statement is exactly where I'm at.

I won't get you started on Victims and accountability....but I did watch Justin put lots of people in their place when they started with their "stories". Maybe I'm not too harsh in that department because it completely amused me. :shrug

Well, humiliation in front of 100 or so complete strangers isn't quite humorous to me, but to each their own, eh? As far as the long term benefits I have maintained, I would say only two things. The direct benefit from the training is I have a confidence in my ability to change my environment in a way I did not have before I went in. Again, not worth the price I paid to get it (financially or emotionally), nor is it the only place I could have learned it. That’s all. The second indirect benefit is that I now know what I am capable of surviving, much like surviving any other kind of trauma. As far as giving you clues, using lerms like "being open" or being exessively open is one. They use this coachability nonsense to damage your confidence so they can induct you into their ways of thinking.

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Madshus

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exImpact
I concur with Madshus about everything on his last post. Not that he needs my validation, but hey, when you're right, you're right. Right? (Mad, if you are a her, I'm sorry for the lingual bias. As for what I am, I wont tell :) )

Hi ex... no worries, and you have it correct in that I am a 'he'.

I know you don't care to reveal any detail that may reflect who you really are, and I respect that, but I must ask why... why are you worried if others find out who you are? More specifically, what are the actions you fear from others (the others being Impact 'personnel'). Would they try and harm you in some way for speaking your free and clear mind, etc? Are there specific things you know they would try to do?

Actually, I get a kick out of it. I like the idea that they are trying to figure out who I am. Whether they are or not, that is what [i:8c2eea4d00]I [/i:8c2eea4d00]find humorous. They are most definitely not proponents of people speaking their free and clear minds when it happens to conflict with Impact's ideals. However I think it is more likely that they are taking the high road mentality and not giving this thread any "energy". That would be giving their power away, right don'tlove? :wink:

It sounds like a lot has happened on this thread since I last logged in. Thank you for all the great contributions exImpact, Madshus, don'tlikeimpact and Markymark(I may have forgetten someone). I'll throw in my two cents on some of the topics that have been discussed here since my last post...

don'tlikeimpact...most of the time when I come across someone removed from the training who talks about benefits that they received from Impact they are still seeing things through conditioned eyes. I think I can speak with some degree of experience because I felt the same way for a time. I eventually realized that the only benefits that I received were the result of my decision to learn hard lessons as my life and the lives of those around me went straight to hell due to our association with the Impact Trainings. I eventually came to the conclusion that while I may have "learned something" from my Impact experience, I cannot use that as a basis for saying that the trainings were beneficial because I am constantly learning and improving myself anyway. While it is true that I am a different person as a result of the destruction that occured around me I do not see the Trainings as a positive influence for being the source of this destruction. For those who disagreee with my position on this topic I offer the following analogy; I could get mugged, beaten and have my house burn down all in the same day and I would recover and learn something from the experience however I would not go and say that the mugger, the attacker and the fire were blessings in my life. Based on what you wrote in earlier posts it sounds like you may be caught in the same cycle that I was in for a time but I've been wrong before...

Is Impact evil? Impact Trainings has created an environment where their trainees "progress" from Quest to Trainer in Training 3. In this process they are conditioned to become more and more reliant on the Impact Trainers for guidance. As trainees become more dependent on the trainers they are required to pay progressively more money or provide progressively more free labor (often both), in order to continue receiving the guidance that they have become so dependent on. As a part of this process free thought is squashed and trainees are publicly ridiculed if they question the direction that the trainers are moving. In addition, the Impact Trainings create an environment where trainees are required to be extremely vulnerable emotionally and they are often paired with "buddies" who are of the opposite sex. These pairings lead to adulterous relationships in some cases and in many other cases married participants find themselves comparing their spouses to their "buddies". The result of the interaction is not only strained marraige relationships but on a larger scale strained relationships with anyone who does not attend Impact Trainings because "they just don't get it". In short, Impact Trainings destroys individuality, strains or destroys many close family relationships, undermines personal religious philosophies, extracts money from oppressed trainees and acts as if their trainees should treat them like Gods for doing it. So you tell me, is Impact evil?

Markymark... Tough break with the girlfriend being heavily involved in Impact. If she has bought into the conditioning, which she undoubtedly has, it can be difficult to maintain a normal relationship. I have devoted large amounts of time to removing Impact graduates from the training. It can be very difficult to accomplish this because the conditioning process is designed to impede logical thought. Impact teaches that their merits should be evaluated "based on their results" (which they claim are extraordinary). From there Impact goes on to further define what they consider to be their results by saying that, "some trainees experience chaos because they are not living the training". This statement effectively excludes the lives of those trainees who are experiencing "chaos" from the "results" that they are using to justify the validity of the training. The simple conclusion in the minds of many trainees is that Impact Trainings gives value to all of their trainees except for those who do not "live the training" and since those people have been excluded from the "results" then Impact must be good. As trainees get farther and farther away from Lift-Off the set of individuals who "live the training" is exponentially smaller than the set of individuals who do not. Assuming that Impact is to be held responsible for providing value to everyone who pays their $550-$6000, depending on how many levels of training a trainee might attend, it becomes apparent early on that the lions share of the trainees are coming up with short straws. Furthermore, in my observation, many of the people who claim to be "living the training" are only experience a sense of an improved life while they are in the training room. Most are experiencing new family problems or new problems at work but because they are conditioned to only recognize their feelings in the training room will often claim that their life is better than ever. I have yet to come across one person who has experienced a prolonged positive effect from the Impact Trainings, except ofcourse for Hans and Sally(and probably their banker). In answer to your initial question, my advice is to be patient with her while not attending the training yourself. Quite often the euphoria wears off after Lift-Off and things go back to normal. If she attends the TIT trainings then she will, in all likelyhood, end her relationship with you at some point because she will feel that she has progressed far beyond you spiritually and as a result can no longer be happy experiencing life at your level. However having not known either of you personally you many be better off ignoring my advice all together, I don't claim to be able to speak as any kind of a spiritual guide or relationship counselor.

Madshus... I apologize for being a jerk in my last message to you.

The information on these pages that Rick Ross has provided could almost be directly written for Impact. If you're curious as to what you'll go through and experience in Quest at the Impact Trainings in Bluffdale, UT following this link:

[www.culteducation.com]

The order of the processes listed in the link is not exactly the same as those in the Quest training, but the general outline and purpose or emphasis is the same (including the post training).

I have obtained several documents from the state courthouse detailing various tax leins, lawsuits against and judgements for and against the Impact Trainings Corp and/or Hans and Sally specifically. Is it possible to post these documents in PDF format on this website? All of the documents are a matter of public record.

While I have been able to obtain state records, I have had a more difficult time obtaining Federal records. Assuming that each state tax commission lein also has a federal counterpart, there are likely more and larger judgements against the group than what I have been able to obtain so far. Does anyone have any suggestions for obtaining the federal records?

It looks like there is a current lawsuit by a former employee named Earl Seeley. Last I saw Impact had been forced to pay Earl 19k, but it looks like there are still some judgements pending. I will post the documents that I have if I can get clearance from RR and also make a post with the next court date in case anyone wants to attend!

Just a quick question, What is the symbol and sign of of a hand holding up four of its five fingers?? What does it mean, represent, etc??