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exImpact
I thought anyone who has had problems because of Impact ought to read this thread:

[board.culteducation.com]

With some variation, this could be one of any number of Impact graduates I have known. I have known people in [i:0febce4b3f]WORSE[/i:0febce4b3f] situations. It scares me somethimes when I think that it could have been me. Thank God I listened to my friends and family (eventually).

exImpact... what are your thoughts as to why we don't hear more about Impact Trainings in the local media, from others in general, etc?

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Madshus
exImpact... what are your thoughts as to why we don't hear more about Impact Trainings in the local media, from others in general, etc?

I think the people who leave the training early on just think its crap and move on with their lives. Those who stay are conditioned to think that any problems that ensue are of their own doing and don't hold Impact accountable. Its a very intimidating training. It's also pretty embarrasing to go public with the fact that you have been duped into doing this insane LGAT, this holds especially true if you are Mormon. Most of their trainees are LDS, and the run-of-the-mill Utah stripe at least are infamous for not wanting to "make waves". There is just not alot for media sources to go on. This is all speculation, I simply don't know for sure. Formerimpactgrad may have better insight.

Basically my concern is: What is the "REAL" Danger with Impact Trainings?

As I've talked to some people who aren't associated with Impact, they always seem to pose the question: What's wrong about something that makes people feel better about themselves?

One of my friends seemed to think that Impact is offering a service, to people who are willing to pay, that teaches them how to improve their lives.

Like if you went to a business seminar where a motivational speaker teaches businessmen how to improve on their sales and communication skills.

I found myself stuck...I couldn't really find a real answer for these people. I almost felt like I was reaching, for anything to say, that could prove that Impact was a "cult" or a bad investment for people.

I guess what I've been thinking lately is that some people need help to realize that they are good enough to accomplish things.

Personally I think it's a scam. I would never need anything like this to improve my life. But I guess some people do. Are there things about Impact that are EVIL? Please help me out here. Can I rely on things posted here as fact, or just people who are disgruntled with impact saying bad things?

See [www.culteducation.com]

This research paper by a clinical psychologist details what's wrong with mass marathon training like Impact.

I went through the whole training this year. And I really did get a lot out of it. I will say this though....I went in as a fairly stable person, unlike most of my group. I felt empowered by the whole thing. I was able to confront my weak areas and really step up in my life.

Overall, I don't think it was evil.

HOWEVER.....

I do have a HUGE problem with 1 thing. It's the mixing of religion with a self-improvement training. I do understand the concept and idea that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience...but I want to go to church for what I want spiritually. I really didn't like all the secretiveness about TIT. I did have an experience with TIT1 and it was NOT GOOD.

I think one of my gifts (however undeveloped it may be) is that I feel the energy of people. And I cannot tell you the overwhelming negatiave energy I get from Hans. The energy I get from him is that he is not living a congruent life. He talks about not judging people and then moments later he is harshly judging someone because they question him. IT's really messed up.

I do not like the fact that people treat Hans as if he is a God. Because he definitely is not. I feel absolutely NO HUMILITY from the guy at all. It bothered me tremendously with his references to Jesus as his best friend. And it only started to bother me after realizing in TIT that he was not even Christian. I felt very deceived. When you hear people refering to Jesus as their best friend...it's very likely that you will assume they are Christian....however, to be Christian, you must believe in the divinity of Christ and that his atonement was real...that he died for us. You won't learn that in Impact.

And it's ok for others to have different beliefs than mine. That's not the problem...it's just the subtle way that it's done.

You start out with the first 3 trainings feeling very empowered about yourself...it's not "religious" and then they start messing with your spiritual beliefs. I've had many friends so screwed up from those TIT trainings. They don't know what to believe in anymore. And because of this, they become less effective as people....they end up in a worse place because of their self-centeredness and confusion.

I know I'm rambling.....so I'll stop.

For awhile, I recommended Impact to people....now I tell them to RUN!!!!

Where do you go with Impact once you have completed with the TIT sessions? Is there anything after that? I'm assuming you become a trainer to new recruits. Do you get paid for this? Would they encourage people to only associate with other Impactees?

Also, I had a friend who I talked to about Impact, and we both agreed how "crazy" it seemed that people would pay for this type of training. And how "cult"-like the whole thing seemed.

Come to find out, just barely, she is now taking the initial session. What the HELL! How can you go one day thinking it's crazy to the next wanting to do it.

The only thing I can think of is that she went to our friends graduation and became mesmorized by the atmosphere. Is it really that gripping of an experience?

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="don'tloveimpact"
I went through the whole training this year. And I really did get a lot out of it.

For awhile, I recommended Impact to people....now I tell them to RUN!!!!

I'm confused... so it is a benefit to some degree, but yet you still say run away? Do you recommend it if people only do the lower level trainings?

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Madshus

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="don'tloveimpact"
I went through the whole training this year. And I really did get a lot out of it.

For awhile, I recommended Impact to people....now I tell them to RUN!!!!

I'm confused... so it is a benefit to some degree, but yet you still say run away? Do you recommend it if people only do the lower level trainings?

Well...I'm confused too. I can't deny the benefits I got from it. And yet I would hesitant in recommending it because I've seen it do more damage for most people. Those who don't move into the upper TIT but go through the Lift-off program, were fairly stable going into it seem to fare the best.

For people who are complete "victims"....I would recommend they go. For those who need some accountability...I would recommend the lower levels. I would never recommend the upper levels except to those who are totally "new age" and looking for a religion.....but that's just me.

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="don'tloveimpact"
I can't deny the benefits I got from it.

See, this is what's so interesting about all this... people claim 'benefits', and if you would, please list the benefits you have received. I will ask this ahead of time - are these benefits something you can only obtain from going to Impact Trainings? I ask, because the benefits I hear people speak about are things I see as common sense and what one learns by maturing as a human being. Impact is not offering any big secrets here.

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="don'tloveimpact"
And yet I would hesitant in recommending it because I've seen it do more damage for most people.

And hence the confusion when talking about these groups. What damage have you seen exactly??

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="don'tloveimpact"
For people who are complete "victims"....I would recommend they go.

What exactly do you perceive a 'victim' to be? Is this 'jargon' you have picked-up from Impact? Did you use the word/concept of 'victim' before going to Impact?

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="don'tloveimpact"
For those who need some accountability...I would recommend the lower levels.

Again, I think you're using LGAT/Impact semantics again here with the 'accountability' thing... what exactly do you think it means for someone to 'need some accountability'? I'll tell you what I think it means - be an adult and take responsibility for yourself and stop acting like some other influence is keeping you from doing so... gee, look, I came to that conclusion all by myself without going to some 'training' and dropping thousands of dollars. :wink: Sorry, just alittle rant... I dislike this whole business of marketing common sense and people dropping tons of cash for it.

I appreciate your posts, but I am questioning if you are still in the mindset of Impact, or if you are truly thinking independently about all these things.

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="don'tloveimpact"
I went through the whole training this year. And I really did get a lot out of it. I will say this though....I went in as a fairly stable person, unlike most of my group. I felt empowered by the whole thing. I was able to confront my weak areas and really step up in my life.

Overall, I don't think it was evil.
Well...I'm confused too. I can't deny the benefits I got from it. And yet I would hesitant in recommending it because I've seen it do more damage for most people. Those who don't move into the upper TIT but go through the Lift-off program, were fairly stable going into it seem to fare the best.

For people who are complete "victims"....I would recommend they go. For those who need some accountability...I would recommend the lower levels. I would never recommend the upper levels except to those who are totally "new age" and looking for a religion.....but that's just me.

Hi there don'tloveimpact, I'm going to assume you have read this whole thread and are therefore aware of my claims to have helped (I use that term on purpose) run/facilitate the Impact Trainings for over 5 years. Congratulations on being stable enough to survive playing Russian roulette. I want to emphasize that this is [i:de031565ae]your[/i:de031565ae] experience from [i:de031565ae]one[/i:de031565ae] sample group of trainees. I want you to be aware of what you are recommending to other people as far as the "lower" level (Quest Summit Lift-Off) trainings go. I have seen a seemingly stable man literally lose his mind, and by my assessment, went totally mad at the tail end of Quest. He left on the third night and was never heard from again. I had a friend I met from staffing her training a few years back, who went through lift off. Her whole family did too, a few of which were in TIT. She was depressed, and was surrounded by people who did not believe in Right or Wrong (like I'm assuming you do now don'tlove. Also "thinking", right?) and they wanted to assist her lovingly and honestly to assist herself and heal her own heart. She killed herself. She could never get over the trauma she got from Quest Feedback arcs or the Lifeboat process in Summit. Her life was awful, and (in my opinion) the Training made it worse. I had (again, from staffing) a friend who was raped multiple times in her life, and after Lift-off she disappeared, I never heard from her again. I do know her self-loathing became worse after Impact. The fact of the matter is there are bonafide victims in life. Impact makes them every month. Also, I cannot see your logic in recommending a program that is run by someone like Hans Berger. According to your own assessment of him, you are correct and much kinder than I would be. Why would you want to have other people fill his pockets? These "lower level" trainings are just as damaging as the upper, and from the TIT perspective, they are integral in their theology.

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="don'tloveimpact"
HOWEVER.....

I do have a HUGE problem with 1 thing. It's the mixing of religion with a self-improvement training. I do understand the concept and idea that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience...but I want to go to church for what I want spiritually. I really didn't like all the secretiveness about TIT. I did have an experience with TIT1 and it was NOT GOOD.

I think one of my gifts (however undeveloped it may be) is that I feel the energy of people. And I cannot tell you the overwhelming negatiave energy I get from Hans. The energy I get from him is that he is not living a congruent life. He talks about not judging people and then moments later he is harshly judging someone because they question him. IT's really messed up.

I do not like the fact that people treat Hans as if he is a God. Because he definitely is not. I feel absolutely NO HUMILITY from the guy at all. It bothered me tremendously with his references to Jesus as his best friend. And it only started to bother me after realizing in TIT that he was not even Christian. I felt very deceived. When you hear people referring to Jesus as their best friend...it's very likely that you will assume they are Christian....however, to be Christian, you must believe in the divinity of Christ and that his atonement was real...that he died for us. You won't learn that in Impact.

And it's ok for others to have different beliefs than mine. That's not the problem...it's just the subtle way that it's done.

You start out with the first 3 trainings feeling very empowered about yourself...it's not "religious" and then they start messing with your spiritual beliefs. I've had many friends so screwed up from those TIT trainings. They don't know what to believe in anymore. And because of this, they become less effective as people....they end up in a worse place because of their self-centeredness and confusion.RUN!!!!

First of all, it is not [i:de031565ae]just[/i:de031565ae] that he is treated as a God, he believes he [i:de031565ae]is[/i:de031565ae] one, and he will tell you that if he likes you. He will also tell you that you are one. You are correct in this assessment of the TIT program, but the depths of wrongdoing I have seen in there makes my chest hurt. You just barely know what you are talking about from your experience, there is much more going on in deeper levels. Also, do not be fooled, they start messing with your spritual beliefs long before TIT, starting the last day of Quest. Summit and Lift-off are all about spirit, remember? You cannot separate religion from the spiritual. Its semantics, like help/assist and working/right and not-working/wrong. I was even told by another trainer that these things are semantics at the TIT level, but it is necessary to use them at the trainee level to get people where they "deserve" to be. Chew on that. Also, (in my opinion) it is this "empowerment" that you describe that is the main destructive by-product of this training. You might benefit from it, but this empowerment easily lends itself to entitlement. Also, if you are a immoral or stupid person, this training empowers you to be even more immoral and/or stupid. I've seen it over and over and over and over and a dead horse.

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markymark1341
Where do you go with Impact once you have completed with the TIT sessions? Is there anything after that? I'm assuming you become a trainer to new recruits. Do you get paid for this? Would they encourage people to only associate with other Impactees?

Also, I had a friend who I talked to about Impact, and we both agreed how "crazy" it seemed that people would pay for this type of training. And how "cult"-like the whole thing seemed.

Come to find out, just barely, she is now taking the initial session. What the HELL! How can you go one day thinking it's crazy to the next wanting to do it.

The only thing I can think of is that she went to our friends graduation and became mesmerized by the atmosphere. Is it really that gripping of an experience?

People are desperate for intimacy and connection. Impact and other LGAT's sell you what you want the most: Your soul. Group dynamics and mental conditioning techniques create this intimacy. The military uses similar tactics in training its soldiers so they will be more cohesive as a unit and will hopefully stay alive longer. Impact uses your "heart" as a weapon against your mind, to weaken your resistance to what they want you to believe. Unfortunately, the reality is that your mind is your best friend in that place.

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="don'tloveimpact"

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Madshus

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="don'tloveimpact"
I went through the whole training this year. And I really did get a lot out of it.

For awhile, I recommended Impact to people....now I tell them to RUN!!!!

I'm confused... so it is a benefit to some degree, but yet you still say run away? Do you recommend it if people only do the lower level trainings?

Well...I'm confused too. I can't deny the benefits I got from it. And yet I would hesitant in recommending it because I've seen it do more damage for most people. Those who don't move into the upper TIT but go through the Lift-off program, were fairly stable going into it seem to fare the best.

For people who are complete "victims"....I would recommend they go. For those who need some accountability...I would recommend the lower levels. I would never recommend the upper levels except to those who are totally "new age" and looking for a religion.....but that's just me.

Again, this may be true for your group. And for many, for a time, it may appear this way, but they are damaged without knowing it, and I will admit, I am going to assume you are as well don'tlove. Time makes fools of us all.Mental conditioning just wouldn't work if you knew it was happening. If you champion the core trainings in any way you are endorsing numerous logical fallacies, mental conditioning through humiliation, double-talk and other immoral (my opinion) behaviors. Don'tlove, I suggest (if you haven't already) that you read the entire thread, and go look up Landmark and Lifespring. See the damage those trainings have wrought in the lives of others, and know that Impact is a bastardization of Lifespring (which Hans is a graduate of) and the Religious Cult that is TIT. Look up mental conditioning techniques and see what has been done to you. Then see where you stand with all of this. I would reccomend this program to no one for any reason. The examples I gave are a small sample of the numerous people this training has hurt. Most of which, if i were to sight them, would reveal my identity to those who work there. What has happened just among the staff and trainers would curl your hair. I will get more in detail about most anything, especially how I think individual processes in the core-trainings affect people. I may just have to describe them a process at a time and let you judge for yourselves. I can say I have had some little long-term benefit from taking the Trainings, but compared to the damage I recieved(and have contributed to) and have seen in the lives of others , its like sticking a band-aid on a bullet wound, yeah it's better than nothing, but....

As far as supporting the core trainings and not the mastery set, I believe if you support a part, you support the whole. Any strengthening of the cement of your personal foundation by this training is compromised by the blood of the broken that is mixed in the mortar. Just like eating bananas, yeah, they are tasty, but slave labor gets them to your american stomache, whether you know about it, or want to think about it, or not. I'm glad you tell people to RUN, don'tlove. There needs to be more like you.
As far as Impact's views on "Victims" and "Accountability" go, ugh :x , don't get me started. I could logically tear them apart for you if you like, but this reply is long enough as it is. Also, ramble as much as you want. I do.