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matausi
From my first day of Impact, "Quest", I noticed many staff members wearing crystal necklaces. Does the "power" of the crystal and the "power" of mother earth become a topic of doctrine in the T.I.T trainings?

The crystals the TIT 3 staffmembers wear? Oh, you mean Impact's version of the LDS sacred garments? Why yes Matausi, yes it does.

However, when pressed, they will say that the "power" of a crystal is only a reflection of the power that we have innately, which begs the question, why do we need crystals in the first place if we have the power already? Impact won't say it in these words of course, but it is clear we need their help or deserve their assistance, or whatever the hell they would say (In fact, by what Impact says is true, crystals are more beneficial to us than Christ's supposed "atonement"). By the way, don't be fooled by Impacts claims that the language of increase is not mere semantics, because it most definitely is. They may change your vocabulary, but the meaning is exactly the same. Changing "right/wrong" to "working/not working" and "help" to "assist" etc. are just behavior conditioning tactics. Eventually when the novelty wears off, graduates just say assist instead of help with the same connotation. I can "help" you without doing it for you, in fact, most educators practice this type of "help". I cannot continue saying more about this without being derogatory, so I'll stop.
In the T.I.T. program, you would be introduced to the miracles that are crystals. They address that crystals have been used as channels for "Black Magic", but that it is misuse, as any form of power can be misused, of the true value of these gifts from Mother Nature. It is presented to mollify any LDS objection to crystal use that Joseph Smith himself was a lover of crystals and that the Urim and Thummim seer stones and breast plate used to translate the Book of Mormon consisted of divinely charged crystals. It is also taught in T.I.T. that not only are we gods, but each one of us can be a LITERAL prophet, seer and/or revelator (and most trainers/office staff fully and actively embrace these roles). As part of a TIT stretch, you will go on a "fieldtrip" to go find some "friends". Crystals are sentient and can be used as tools for spiritual healing, mental clarity, etc. etc. They are used in the TIT 3 rituals, and you are strongly encouraged to keep an Altar at home that will assist you with your "Lightwork". It was commented in my TIT training that the condition/quality of your Altar reflects the condition/quality of your spirituality. It is also customary to affix powerful crystals to the apostolic staffs used in the TIT rituals. If you would like a real life example of the weirdness, follow this link previously provided by RaCeR---X. (The Impact reference is near the bottom of the page. The TIT 3ers mentioned in this article are LDS, one of which I hear, is the biggest crystal nut of them all).

Ronna Star has "channeled" Arch Angel Lord Michael multiple times in T.I.T. 3 meetings and has paticicipated in multiple annual "trips". The T.I.T. 3 group was expected to accept the information from the prophetess as canon.

[www.ronnastar.com]

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formerimpactgrad
3. Hugging and other physical contact is encouraged and expected.

When referring to Impact concerning this, the term "expected" should be in caps with a bold typeface. :)

I also want to express my appreciation to the Rick Ross institute and particularly its moderators. I know I've been keeping them busy :wink:

I have been reading the many topics and replies associated with Landmark and was blown away by how exactly the experiences expressed in them are precisely analogous with experiences dissenting graduates of Impact could express. It shouldn't have surprised me, being they are nearly identical programs and Hans Berger is a Landmark graduate, but it did. If you want to know more about how Impact can wreck or otherwise complicate/compromise your life and the lives of others, go browse the Landmark topics on the Rick Ross message boards.

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exImpact
At the T.I.T. level, Hans Berger uses his life experience (many of which were accurately quoted by Formerimpactgrad earlier in this forum) to "prove" that God exists, and that not only are we children of God but that we are all ALREADY, LITERALLY GODS. We are here to do what Jesus the Christ did, which was receive a body/ego mind, over come its limitations, embrace our divine natures, and Ascend from our mortal state into a Christed or Perfect state. Christ was not any more divine than you or I, that is, we are all of equal divine status with Jesus Christ. Each human being may choose to participate within the godhead if they so choose and each individual human being is doomed to repeat this life until they spiritually Ascend, and THIS is the TRUE motive behind Impacts mission statement.

Well, personally, that philosophy doesn't sound so off the wall to me.

I want to remind folks here that not everyone here is a Christian. Yes, criticize these groups for using manipulative mind control techniques. But to make fun at them for having non-traditional religious beliefs is beside the point.

He could believe a pie of Jello represents God. That's his right to say that.

My concern is whether the training is MANIPULATIVE and uses brainwashing techniques and other cult methods to keep people in the program and spending lots of money.

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exImpact
I have been reading the many topics and replies associated with Landmark and was blown away by how exactly the experiences expressed in them are precisely analogous with experiences dissenting graduates of Impact could express.

exImpact,

One of the individuals that I know who did Impact, and still claims it as his 'salvation' after all these years, also did Landmark... talk about your double dosage. What I found interesting is that he briefly said people at Impact did not seem pleased that he also did Landmark.

Do you have any insight/opinions on how the die-hard Impact crowd views Landmark or other LGATs?

Drivingthecar made a great point. The reason that so much space has been spent on theology is because there have been a number of questions asked by people of local Christian faiths. As a result, the discussion has tended to flow that way.

In answer to your concern, yes the training is very manipulative. In 1984 George Orwell coined the term double-speak, meaning evasive and ambigous language that is intended to deceive or confuse. The Impact Trainers and staff use this method more than any organization that I have ever been exposed to. One of the big thrusts in the primary trainings is "being your word". As the trainings progress the Impact group commonly re-defines words to suit whatever need that they may have at the time.

For example, the word "open" is commonly used to manipulate trainees and graduates into committing to something that they are opposed to. If a trainee says that they do not want to continue into the next level of the training, a common question that the trainers ask is "are you open?". Since being "closed" means that the trainee is rejecting the possibility of inspiration and guidance, which gets them chewed out and humiliated in front of the group, no one answers no to that question. By answering yes, the trainer can then begin to offer inspiration and guidance since they have already established themselves and a person of authority.

This is only one example, but a large number of trainees are lead through various, and expensive, levels of training because they refuse to answer "no" to the question "are you open?" or refute the trainer's assertion that they are an inspired guide.

If you have specific questions regarding the manipulative tactics of the Impact trainers and staff, I am more than happy to share whatever knowledge I have.

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drivingthecar
I want to remind folks here that not everyone here is a Christian. Yes, criticize these groups for using manipulative mind control techniques. But to make fun at them for having non-traditional religious beliefs is beside the point.
He could believe a pie of Jello represents God. That's his right to say that.

1) I am not discussing individual rights to believe or not believe one set of ideas over another, nor am I advocating a belittling attitude of their beliefs. I was not ignorantly assuming that every visitor of this forum is Christian (though it may considered to be ignorant to accuse me of doing so); rather I am addressing the definite Christian-themed manipulative techniques employed by the training. Impact Trainings explicitly states that they are not a religion, and I assert, as a former ACTIVE member of that organization, that they are a religious cult as the term is defined.
The concerns you state at the end of your post are my concerns as well. And I am sure if I were to share my true theological beliefs with you, they would be considered non-traditional. In the case of the Impact Trainings however, the non-traditional religious beliefs they champion ARE the foundation of their mental conditioning techniques, and this is the primary manipulative tool that they use (among many, many others) to keep people in the program. In fact, the Trainers In Training master level trainings are the most expensive, and are exclusively religious in content.

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drivingthecar
My concern is whether the training is MANIPULATIVE and uses brainwashing techniques and other cult methods to keep people in the program and spending lots of
money.

2) It is manipulative as you state, and they use a modified LDS theology to manipulate and exploit their predominantly LDS client base. For a member of the LDS faith in particular, the issues presented in the training can be of GREAT concern. However, it is MY concern that many religious people, non-LDS included, don't realize what Impact is forcing them into, until it is too late, and it is the inclusive nature of Impacts theology that has deceived and ensnared men and women of many faiths (or lack thereof). I am giving an account with the intention of spreading awareness. This is all information graduates of the core trainings have sworn to not disclose, and the TIT graduates have committed an oath of silence concerning the sacred mastery processes/rituals. Neither oath nor disclosure is legally binding however, but one of Impacts greatest controlling methods is to make breaking ones word a sin akin to murder. It is immoral to mentally condition and brainwash people by manipulating the goodness in their hearts to pay you money so that they participate in a religion that they aren't aware they are in.

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formerimpactgrad
Drivingthecar made a great point. The reason that so much space has been spent on theology is because there have been a number of questions asked by people of local Christian faiths. As a result, the discussion has tended to flow that way. In answer to your concern, yes the training is very manipulative…

Again, formerimpactgrad is accurate to the detail. However the religious motivations behind these Landmarkian mental conditioning techniques cannot be understated as the true motivation behind this insidious business.

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Madshus

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exImpact
I have been reading the many topics and replies associated with Landmark and was blown away by how exactly the experiences expressed in them are precisely analogous with experiences dissenting graduates of Impact could express.

One of the individuals that I know who did Impact, and still claims it as his 'salvation' after all these years, also did Landmark... talk about your double dosage. What I found interesting is that he briefly said people at Impact did not seem pleased that he also did Landmark. Do you have any insight/opinions on how the die-hard Impact crowd views Landmark or other LGATs?

What amazed me is listening to replies posted by Landmark graduates, and they literally sound like they could be Impact graduates!
The mere mention of Landmark, The Harmony Institute etc. or the term “LGAT” is taboo. You will get stares and roundabout answers the likes of which would astound your mind if you still have it when they do it to you. A typical answer might be, “Oh yes, they have existed for years, but we have had graduates of their program come to ours and say they are nothing alike, so much so that they have enrolled buddies over to Impact from the other program!” They also disparage LGAT as being a term that can apply to any group of people who gather anywhere to increase their awareness for any reason. According to them, Impact is the Golden Egg/the One True Training.

exImpact or formerimpactgrad...

Out of curiousity, what is the level of education that Hans Berger has completed? Also, in general, what is the level of education completed by those attending Impact and it's upper level trainings - some college... a Bach. or Masters, etc?

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Madshus
exImpact or formerimpactgrad...Out of curiosity, what is the level of education that Hans Berger has completed? Also, in general, what is the level of education completed by those attending Impact and it's upper level trainings - some college... a Bach. or Masters, etc?

I know Hans went to the University of Utah and got at least a bachelor in business or something, if I remember correctly. The subject came up once years ago in passing at the house on the ropes course in Oakley, Utah. The only other time I remember hearing about his education was in a TIT training when he talked about owning many businesses over the course of his lifetime. One of which he claims was a goldmine. I never asked him if he got his masters. Education just really isn't something talked about much inside or outside the training room with these people. They just don't give it much credence unless some scholarly discipline happens to prove a point that supports the Impact vision (quantum theory, for example). As for the graduates, there is a large disparity between the wealthy, educated and successful classes and the lower-middle uneducated classes. A few medical doctors were on the TIT 3 staff, one of which left before I did. There was a lawyer on that staff as well that was banned from Impact (he should have been banned from the planet). As far as TIT 3 trainees go, there are a few medical doctors, three or four lawyers, a few public educators and a college professor. There were a few VERY wealthy businessmen/women as well, a few of which were associated with a preeminent local bank. But even when I left, this only constituted maybe 1/5 of the group. The rest were low to middle income, the majority with no or little education after high school. The education of the training staff is uncertain. Their staff has grown since I was there, but I know the trainers who still train the core (Quest, Summit, Lift-Off) are under-educated, unqualified and uncertified for practicing counseling or therapy. One of the lift-off trainers, who happened to be their best trainer actually, was certified as a family councilor, but I hear he and his wife left without any official reason from him or Impact. There are allot more in that TIT 3 group now, so I'm sure there are more educated people that attend, but I'd be willing to bet that the same rough 1:5 ratio still applies. It may be too generous of a ratio. Unfortunately, education cannot compensate for enormous personal flaws that you don't (or can't) work on without the help of a good professional, particularly insecurity and mental disorders. Everyone has fears as well. Impact just preys on every human flaw you can think of, tears you down to the raw level of a terrified child, builds you up by “loving” you and giving you a sense of purpose, tears you down again, and if there is time, builds you back up again sometime before you finish lift off. I've seen people never build back up from re-living of the trauma impact runs you through. I've seen suicide and relapse into self-destructive behavior harder than ever when they seemed to be getting better before they walked into quest. They just don't care whether the trainees are capable of handling it or not, because success is just a choice to them. Its russian roulette with your mind and soul, some people walk in cracked and Impact breaks them, and "blesses them on their journey" as they stumble back into the world. Not to mention rampant divorces and infidelity spurred by this rapid illusionary change. Jeez… :?

I need to make a correction, Hans Berger was not a Landmark graduate, but a [i:e32dac43fe]Lifespring[/i:e32dac43fe] graduate. It ends up being amounting to the same thing.

Have a look:
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