exImpact...

Thanks for your lengthy and informative response. Reading your post was enlightening, if I may use such a phrase, as well as providing some understanding about the behavior I have seen in the other Impact grads I know. I've quoted portions of your post with some responses & comments below...

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exImpact
The new language you learn is the "language of increase" where you don't speak negatively (A la quantum mechanics that they got from watching a movie called "What the Bleep do We Know" that any moron can watch and when its over, still not know dick about quantum theory)

It's very interesting to see you mention this movie, as well as talk about the language... other Impact grads I know bought this movie, suggested I watch it, and also use the semantics of 'we don't speak on the same level' when I try to discuss the trainings, etc.

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exImpact
...at the beginning of the fourth day of Quest (the 1st set of training) begins to reinforce a pseudo-LDS spiritual foundation for the trainings which usually makes the now vulnerable trainees, most of whom are Mormon and have very shaky faith conviction in their church...

I've heard from others not involved with Impact Trainings talk about the parallels to LDS doctrine, and thought it not only interesting how the trainings implement the LDS jargon, but also how LDS doctrine is similar in certain ways to the trainings... mormonism is a whole other topic, but it's all too interesting how Impact is capitalizing on the local culture. It's also interesting that the LDS church has come out and spoken out against the trainings - perhaps the upper powers that be in the LDS church see something that is cutting in on their business model. :wink:

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exImpact
Hans Berger stated multiple times (not exactly in these words, but close) that it is not important what you do out there in the world (Education, profession) and that a diploma is not the authority of God. It’s a good thing too, because most of the office staff are uneducated

Your comment here made me raise my eyebrow, as those I know involved with Impact did not pursue a college degree or any other additional education beyond high school. Hopefully I don't sound condescending, but I've sensed a degree of simplicity or naiveness with the Impact grads I know.

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exImpact
They justify ruining lives by believing that Impact isn't responsible because each individual makes their choices. They are above "looking at their results" as they vehemently coach their trainees to do (and punish them for not doing).

Not claiming responsibility is probably the most revealing aspect of their entire method/technique.

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exImpact
I think an investigation by a news agency would ultimately end up sounding like the BBB's advice given on a link in a previous posting. "Do not seek untrained, unqualified help for your problems, etc." The problem is that they are not doing anything illegal in the core trainings. The business side may be another matter.

They may not be doing anything illegal, but unethical and manipulative is all too evident.

Hearing your perspective is intriguing and fascinating... I hope you continue to share details and info regarding these trainings that continue to occur in a certain business park in the south part of the Salt Lake valley.

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exImpact
We do not and will never do objective, externally sourced, extensive, scientifc, long term studies to verify/falsify our claims. We will only use the fact that thousands of people have taken our courses...

Sounds like proof to me that the trainings must be the real deal. :wink:

Addressing the question of whether the Impact Trainings are, in FACT, a religion or not is one of my greatest concerns. In the Quest-Summit-Lift Off levels, it is only apparent in that the trainings address only the human "spirit" or the eternal part of man. This is reinforced primarily by conditioning the trainees into believing that the cause of all dysfunction and pain in this life is caused by the “Ego Mind". This conditioning begins in Quest, where trainees continually have their use language corrected. The do not want you to use the word "Think". The mind is this enemy inside of us that is the "balancing" or soul-building agent that God has blessed us with so that our spirits may have resistance to work against so that they may become stronger. When someone is hesitant or confused (justifiably so) during a process or conversation with the training, a trainer will coach that individual to "STOP THINKING. What do you FEEL?" Eventually, the trainees take over for the trainer, belittling someone who is "In their head", pressuring them to follow the group dynamics and to keep the whole group from being punished. When one member breaks a ground rule they agree to keep at the start of the training, the entire group suffers for it. This is a conditioning technique that has been used by the military to condition troops to be cohesive.

Thinking is what stops progress and is the reason humanity has lost its way. This idea is the true insidious root of evil within the Impact Trainings. Their minds become the enemy. Their resistance to the trainings teachings and mantras are caused by this negative little animal that lives within each one of us. When a trainee says they cannot pay for or attend the next set of trainings, they are, again, ridiculed for "arguing for their limitations" for it is your ego mind and your flawed humanness that says "I can't".

Impact graduates are conditioned to not think, but they are also conditioned to be hyper aware of each and every thing that happens each moment of every day. So, its not that grads do not think, rather they are conditioned to think what Impact wants them to think. The "mind" is only a problem when someone wants to do something Impact does not want them to do.

This is what inducts trainees into the religion of Impact, at the same time making them wholly convinced that they are not in one. One reason that they do not believe that it is a religion is because Impact is not exclusive to other religions and beliefs. Anyone of any religious/ethnic background may participate, however these beliefs must not conflict with Impact's designs (i.e. unconditional love for all humanity etc.). This religious training primarily begins in Summit, where graduates participate in a "stretch day", where they portray aspects of spirit and ego mind through skits and dancing, some of which are incredibly degrading.

At the T.I.T. level, Hans Berger uses his life experience (many of which were accurately quoted by Formerimpactgrad earlier in this forum) to "prove" that God exists, and that not only are we children of God but that we are all ALREADY, LITERALLY GODS. We are here to do what Jesus the Christ did, which was receive a body/ego mind, over come its limitations, embrace our divine natures, and Ascend from our mortal state into a Christed or Perfect state. Christ was not any more divine than you or I, that is, we are all of equal divine status with Jesus Christ. Each human being may choose to participate within the godhead if they so choose and each individual human being is doomed to repeat this life until they spiritually Ascend, and THIS is the TRUE motive behind Impacts mission statement.

Spiritual leaders should NOT BE FOOLED BY THE FOOLED, and allow members of their congregations to participate in this true blue CULT. Individuals who are in T.I.T. participate in rituals on the last Monday of almost every month. They intone the OHM and call in the Spiritual Masters of Light, (particularly Jesus, Archangel Michael, Father AND Mother God) believing they are literally there, performing healing rites and mantras while using divine, Apostolic staffs. Hans Berger has stated multiple times that the Impact Training rooms are more sacred and holy than any church.

Be aware that the majority of the people who belong to this cult are active members in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The graduates who are LDS split into two groups. One group is continually in conflict, back and forth, trying to bring together the contradictory doctrine that exists between the LDS church and Impact. They are confused, not knowing which to choose, not being able to bring them rationally together. I remember one woman in particular who was continually, vocally conflicted between her Faith, Impact and her rational mind. She would be fondly ridiculed by Hans every time she would bring up a logical FALLACY, told that her concerns are only concerns because they are concerns, and praised for being an object lesson for the entire group. She might have been the smartest one in the group and it makes me angry as I remember seeing her treated thusly. (I hope she got out). The other LDS faction has ceased to care. They live in a blissful knowing that all spirit is good spirit and that the truth is that both organizations are true and have abandoned their rational faculties so absolutely, that contradictions in logic simply do not concern them any longer. They have spoken with leaders of the LDS church and have been semi-sucessfull in convincing them that Impact is not a religion (however, the oath of silence each TIT 3er swears to the night they officially join prevents them from telling the Church authorities what I have printed here.) It is the latter of the two LDS groups that are the most dangerous and conditioned by Impact. They are the champions of the Cause. (Some of the office staff fit this category.)

AUTHORITIES OF THE LDS CHURCH, PLEASE READ THIS:

This cult believes that the authority of God, or the priesthood, lies within anyone who claims his/her divinity. Authority is not passed down patriarchly, and it is this doctrine (and many others, such as the Atonement was for Christ and not all of humanity. It was his resurrection that was His purpose, to show men that they may do likewise. Hans Berger has referenced that he knows what Joseph Smith REALLY was told by God about His plan for humanity) that stands COMPLETLY CONTRAST to the current teachings of the LDS faith. Spiritual leaders must know that members of their flocks that are involved with the Impact Trainings are taught this and most grads either believe it whole-heartedly or are trying to. I will say it again: DO NOT BE FOOLED BY THE FOOLED.

umm...amen.

exImpact...

Your latest post is really remarkable. There is much to respond to, and for lack of time this morning I will not respond myself in length, but I do feel at least a short response is due to acknowledge my appreciation for your words. I will hopefully be able to post more tonight.

I do want to ask though... do you come from an LDS background?

Thanks again for sharing all you have so far... I look forward to more! :wink:

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Madshus
exImpact...

I do want to ask though... do you come from an LDS background?

Thanks again for sharing all you have so far... I look forward to more! :wink:

I am reluctant to respond to any questions about my background, however, something Impact never knew about me was that I am a trained theologian. It was something I never felt comfortable sharing with Hans.

I have sufficient knowledge about Christian belief systems and how they compare and contrast with one another. Sufficient enough to say that the religious doctrine of the Impact Trainings T.I.T. program and the current, officially endorsed doctrine of Mormonism are logically CONTRADICTORY. Outspoken members have been excommunicated from the LDS church for endorsing the same ideas Impact adheres to, (not to mention some have been ex-communicated for less severe ideas.) One of which is that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and are co-equal partners in the Councils of Light. (I wish someone would go back in time and prevent the release of FICTION that was the Da Vinci Code) There are many more I have not even mentioned...yet. :wink: Unfortunately, I let my insecurities override my rationality when I took the training.

Most other mainstream Christian religions would consider the main points of Impact's doctrine as heresy.

I give any spiritual leader the same council that I have previously directed to the LDS authorities, however, being that Mormons are the majority of Impact's client base, I wish to emphasize their position.

exImpact,

I have two weekends left until my Lift Off "graduation" and have always been concerned as to the direction that Impact seems to take its "family."

I was searching throughout the internet to find more information about the T.I.T trainings because I have heard many odd teachings that Hans presents during those trainings.

I recently heard that in T.I.T they teach that Jesus Christ is just another man and not a Savior, because of course they don't believe in help!!!
Well, I have asked several T.I.T members if this is true or false. Needless to say I only get an "Impact" answer and never a straight answer.

I would love to talk to you directly about some other questions that I have!!!! I appreciate all of your posts and believe what you are saying!!!

Please contact me.
Thanks

Matausi,

I'm sure exImpact will respond to your post at length, but I wanted to take the time to throw in my two cents.

Yes, Impact does teach that Jesus is not a Savior in their TIT classes. Hans tells the group that Jesus' sole purpose was to prove that he had power over death. Hans uses Jesus' saying "Go and do likewise" as a basis for the assertion that Jesus was no different than anyone else. Hans also states that Jesus' father was Joseph and that Mary's virgin conception was a myth.

Hans goes on to infer that he has an intimate relationship with Jesus and implies that he has learned things through direct communication with him. For instance, Hans discusses Jesus' career and says that he was a wealthy ship builder. Hans states these ideas as facts without any historical backing. In one of my trainings someone asked Hans about his facts and Hans' response was, "Your eyes have not been opened yet". He then stated that Jesus was standing in the training room at that very moment.

I have personally heard Hans and other trainers state, on multiple occasions, that Jesus often attends the trainings and that those staff members and trainers whose "eyes are open" can see him. Despite all of this, Hans continues to insist that Impact is not a religion.

I have only touched on a couple of beliefs espoused in the TIT trainings. I would be happy to answer any additional questions.

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matausi
exImpact,

I have two weekends left until my Lift Off "graduation" and have always been concerned as to the direction that Impact seems to take its "family."

I was searching throughout the internet to find more information about the T.I.T trainings because I have heard many odd teachings that Hans presents during those trainings.

I recently heard that in T.I.T they teach that Jesus Christ is just another man and not a Savior, because of course they don't believe in help!!!
Well, I have asked several T.I.T members if this is true or false. Needless to say I only get an "Impact" answer and never a straight answer.

I would love to talk to you directly about some other questions that I have!!!! I appreciate all of your posts and believe what you are saying!!!

Please contact me.
Thanks

As I have previously stated, I am reluctant to have direct contact, but I will do my best, in this forum, to answer your questions. Hans Berger's view as Christ's role as Savior for humanity: If Christ were to be a "Savior" for humanity he would be sending us the message that we are not enough and thusly rerquire help (which is a BIG Impact no no) and that we (humanity) are to SAVE OURSELVES. There is no original sin and the "fall" of mankind is simply a choice mankind made in order for us to know what love is. On a side note, Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden are considered a MYTH for the Creation. The term "Christ" is a title that each person can attain entering a Christ-ed state. This attainment allows one to participate in the Godhead united in what is called "Christ Consciousness". As I have previously stated, TIT doctrine states that we are all Gods now, and we are either using our divine powers to create evil or create good. Thusly, the only ontological difference between God the Father/Mother and us is that God chose not to have a choice between good and evil, choosing only good. However, this begs the question if God always has chosen good, how can He know what love is? And if He does, why do WE have to go through hell to learn it? I could write a book on the logical and theological holes and problems these beliefs surround.

Now, with all of this in mind, Impact still does not claim that it is a religion. If Impact is not a religion, there is no such thing as religion.

Unfortunately, this is just the tip of the iceberg and I will happily answer any other questions you have. I'm sure others would benefit from our little Q and A in this forum. Be aware, Impact's doctrine is a grey area at times, that can shift and bend depending on who you will talk to and if they want to tell you what they REALLY believe. Every viewpoint I give in these responses are the viewpoints held by those in charge.

Side note #2, Matausi, I urge you with all of my heart, all the urgency I can muster, do yourself a favor, cut your losses, count your blessings, don't finish Lift Off, and never have anything to do with that place ever again.

From my first day of Impact, "Quest", I noticed many staff members wearing crystal necklaces. Does the "power" of the crystal and the "power" of mother earth become a topic of doctrine in the T.I.T trainings?

exImpact mentioned that, in his opinion, LDS people tend to have the most difficult time being involved with the Impact Trainings because their beliefs are regularly challenged and often belittled. I fully support everything that was said in his paragraph.

I am not LDS myself but while in the training I became aware of a release from the head of that faith regarding "self-awareness groups". I have added the link to a copy of the Salt Lake Tribune article reporting the release of this statement. [www.culteducation.com]

I'm sure the original release can be obtained from an LDS ecclesiastical leader if anyone wants to check my sources.

The release contains a list of criteria that LDS church members should look to avoid if considering an "awareness training". In the words of the release:

"Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.
2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.
3. Foster physical contact among participants.
4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.
5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.
6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners."

All six of these criteria apply to the Impact Trainings. I will address each in order;

1. As a part of the Lift Off training, trainees are asked to write a letter to a family member describing all of the ways that their relationship has been disfunctional in the past. As a "Plus One" challenge, trainees are told to mail or read the letter to that family member. While the intent of the exercise is to foster an improved relationship, the act of mailing or reading the letter definitely "advocates unwarranted confrontation as a means of reaching one's potential."

2. As a part of the Summit Training, trainees are encouraged to wash eachothers' feet as a part of a particular process. This is an obvious imitation of a rite or ceremony that is sacred to people of many faiths.

3. Hugging and other physical contact is encouraged and expected.

4. Most of my core trainings and nearly all of my TIT trainings ended long after midnight.

5. In the first day of the Quest Training, I was asked to disclose my "deepest and darkest secret" to another member of my training group.

6. Husbands and wives were paired with other partners at every level of the core trainings, often with another member of the oposite sex.

In short, if you are LDS I can assure you that involvement with the Impact Trainings will be a source of confusion and tension. Your beliefs will be challenged and your organization will be ridiculed at every level of the training. Many of the backhanded remarks will be presented as friendly jokes, but the intent is clear. Also, let no one delude you into thinking that the LDS church's release does not apply to the Impact Trainings. It meets all six of the listed criteria.