I would like more information about this group if anyone has it. Friends of mine recently got involved and said "it changed their life." I've done what I can to research them...information is limited. Does anyone know what happens at the "heart of the samurai" workshop (advanced)? This is the final workshop after the personal mastery seminars. The seminar is in San Diego and participants have to have their passports and apparently are going to Mexico for service work or "witnessing." Any information about this group beyond what is already out their about LGAT would be helpful.

I have some friends who have gone through the entire series of courses.
It appears to be similar to Landmark and PSI. In fact, Brian Klemmer, the founder, often refers to Tom Willhite as his friend and mentor. I believe this is the same Tom who started PSI.

I am still trying to figure out what the long term effects will be on my friends. They come back enthusiastically promoting the semminars, describing some of the excercises and "breakthroughs" they have experienced. To say that I am concerned about them would be an understatement. I listened to a cassete series called "The pursuit and practice of personal mastery" by Brian Klemmer. It is full of self-help and motivational type teaching with a lot of emphasis on "changing your belief systems" "to think is to create" "visualization" etc.

Some of the excercises that are taught I believe to be self-hypnosis and occultism. Of course they are touted as "relaxation techniques" and "tapping into your inner creativity" .

If you hold to a Judeo-Christian view, this should concern you.

I attended one of their seminars last year and posted about it here. My overall experience was very negative. I didn't keep in touch with anyone who took the course (other than my wife, of course), so I can't speak to its long-term effects.

Both my wife and I have been through the entire K&A series.
We found it to be an incredible look in the mirror and a good experience.

It is a personal growth and development series of seminars designed to teach responsibility and true choice.

In my experience, those who have a negative experience are the ones who are unwilling to look at themselves and their choices. They are unready to change the things that are holding them back in life. No Blame/Shame or Guilt. No judgment, just observation. The people who have the negative energy and bad experiences are the ones who partly open the door and realize that they are at leapt partly responsible for where they are in life and they are unwilling and unready to accept that.

As for what goes on... its no secret and its no mystery.

However, suppose someone told you "I am going to have you sit in a chair, turn off the light, wait exactly 93 seconds, clap my hands, yell BOO and turn on the light simultaneously.... and then you agreed and they did that..

What experience would you have?

Would it be the same experience if they had not told you exactly what they were going to do?

Of course not.

K&A uses the 'experience' of the events in the seminar to help you 'see' how you show up in life and help you 'see' how your choices and decisions have gotten you where you are.

They don't actually teach you anything. They provide a safe and controlled environment in which you can 'show up and play' and then an opportunity to 'debrief' after each event to evaluate how you 'showed up' and how it relates to your choices in the world and in your life.

If you (anyone) are evidence gathering to prove to yourself that its a bad thing; I’m sure it will be easy to find people who will speak out against K&A and you will have 'proof' *cough* that its bad. I submit that those people glimpsed themselves as others see them, however briefly, and they did not like what they saw. And, then it was easier to say K&A is evil than to accept that perhaps they needed to change their own decisions and actions.

It’s an awesome experience for anyone who is open to seeing himself or herself as they actually show up in life.

Both my wife and I highly recommend it.

As for long-term effects; that depends on each individual. Change is a life long process.

Best Regards.

DG

Hey Diverguy, thanks for posting. And I'm sure there are some good aspects to K & A. What drives me up the wall is the insistence of the graduates that this is just THE best thing since Oxygen was invented and we, the uninitiated, are all closed minded and ignorant.

Every time we have a casual conversation, they insist on using some of their jargon, and they really use klem-logic when we get into an argument.

"you are only trying to look good" "that's a victim mentallity" and "you are only trying to make me wrong"

I'm a regular guy who tries to be open-minded and reasonable, but sometimes I wonder where my friends went and who these re-programed individuals who all talk the same that replaced them really are.

I still care about them mind you and we are still friends, but this
has put a very real strain on our relationship. Guess Im just " in resistance," HUH ?

felixcatski,

You're quite welcome for the posting.

The problem you describe is not uncommon and is unfortunate. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Sometimes graduates of the entry courses learn just enough 'language' to be dangerous and then take their 'newly found vocabulary' out to 'save the world'.

It would appear that your friends may be in this group.

The facilitators repeatedly stress that the course is about YOU (the participant) and not your spouse and not your friends etc etc. Its about finding out how 'you' show up in life, how 'your' decisions affect your results, why 'you' make those decisions and, with effort, how 'you' can make different choices.

For obvious reasons, they strongly encourage parcitipants not to take the 'vocabulary' with them out into the world. Clearly, if you (average joe on the street) don't know exactly what 'victim mentality' means to your friend, how can you possibly relate to, or understand, a comment that imples you [u:60ab43f85a]have one[/u:60ab43f85a]. And you (as the recipient) will, in all probability, take it as 'judgemental', 'condescending', 'arrogant', 'superior' and a host of other reactions and it will only serve to build a wall between the two of you. Probably not all in the way it was intended. Your friends have violated one of the fundamental rules "Never give feedback without permission."

From what you have said, I will guess that your friends have not gone beyond the first (perhaps the second) level course. The first two courses give us the tools we need to be a detective with ourselves. Neither course qualifies anyone to 'analyze' or 'diagnose' or 'judge' anyone else.

The first class will open your eyes to 'how you show up in life', 'how others see you' and 'how you play the game of life' (provided you're open to finding that out). The second course helps you understand 'why' you make the decisions you do and offers some ways to 'choose' differently.

I'm glad to hear that you still care about your friends and are still friends with them. I ask that you be patient with them. Hopefully they will continue through the rest of the courses and will focus their energy 'inward' and stop inflicting you with their well intended, yet 'amature', diagnoses.

Quote

Guess Im just " in resistance," HUH ?

Naw, perhaps just a little 'resentment' due to unsoliciated feedback and analysys from your friends. The next time they start in with you, just tell them "Thanks! But I'm not open to feedback right now!" :lol: Or, better still, "Thanks for the feedback. Were you aware that you cannot see something in someone else which is not also in yourself?" :D

Your friends are well-intended. Most likely, it's just easier for them to work with 'your issues' than it is to work with 'their own' right now. Perhaps they are 'in resistance' to something they feel they need to change in their own lives!

Best Regards Sir,
Best wishes to your friends,

DG

Keep smiling.

DiverGuy:

Could it be that the Klemmer courses have negative side effects and that the seminar itself has problems that should be addressed?

It seems that you are saying the problem is also with the participant and never with the training.

Quote
rrmoderator

Could it be that the Klemmer courses have negative side effects and that the seminar itself has problems that should be addressed?

It seems that you are saying the problem is also with the participant and never with the training.

Your question is interesting at many levels.

Codine has negative side effects, if abused. Does not mean the Doctor did not do his due diligance when providing the perscription? No, not in and of the addiction itself. Perhaps he did and perhaps he didn't. The result does not necessarily point directly to a cause.

I never made a claim that K&A training was 100% perfect. I never said that I felt that everything they did was successful (whatever successful means to you).

I addressed one specific issue where one person cited a problem with his friends. In that case, based upon his description, his friends clearly went against what I learned when I took the courses. Not everyone learns (or even hears) everything that is said or given to them. Not everyone remembers everything they learn. Not everyone applies everything they remember. That can't necessarily be blamed on the teachers.

I'm curious what solution you would propose to prevent over-enthusastic students from using new-found terminology and playing amature psychologist on their friends. Some sort of mind-control that forces compliance with the facilitators wishes? That would be a cult, right?

K&A offers a series of courses, intended to be taken in their entirety, similar to the educational systems in most countries. Free-choice allows a person to stop (or resume) at any time.

If someone drops out of High School and does not finish their education, is that necessarily a fault of the educational system every time?

As I understand it, K&S has 1000's of graduates. Statistically there are bound to be a few who fall into categories of 'dissatistifed' and 'overzealous'.

If you want to evaluate the training, I suggest that you look at graduates of the series and not at a few individuals who have mis-applied what they have learned after taking one or two classes.

Honestly, the fact that there are people who overzealously 'analyze' their friends, however unproductively, shows me that K&A allows free choice and isn't 'controlling' us and bending us to their will.

Best Regards,
DG

DiverGuy:

So what you are saying is that whatever and whenever problems occur regarding the training and/or influence of Klemmer, it is the responsibility of past participants and not the company.

Can you think of anything Klemmer does wrong?

Please be very specific.

Quote
rrmoderator
DiverGuy:

So what you are saying is that whatever and whenever problems occur regarding the training and/or influence of Klemmer, it is the responsibility of past participants and not the company.

No sir. That is not even close to what I said.