I have read on this board that Lifestream does not exist anymore, but that is not so. It thrives in Jacksonville Florida, Rochester, NY, San Jose CA, and Columbus, OH as well as Toronto, ON . and perhaps other places. It follows the exact same script as what I have read from Lifespring (agreemnts, Red and Black game, obsessively neat chair rows, sessons til 1 AM, centering, non-stop pressure to "share" lifestream with everyone you know....). I have also read that the Lifestream founder worked for Werner H. Erhard in EST and bought rights from him in '73.

I have been invloved with Lifestream for a couple of years and have always had a "gut"sense that the local group leaders and recruiters were making money personnally on the training seminars. But they always claim that no one makes money on it. I have always been told that only the paid trainer gets paid to lead the weekend, and everyone else is volunteer as they are a not-for-profit. However, my "gut" and a few pieces of information make me believe that even though it's a 501 (c) 3, some of the local people who seem to put in 20 hours or more a week recruiting are making money but claiming to be volunteers.
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Today I discovered that the woman who is the beloved "grandmother" to our local Lifestream group where I live is listed on their website as "owning the rights" to the seminar. A further google search associates this woman's name with owning several corporations like "GRowthworks. Inc. " and "Life Results Inc" which have ties in other cities. So she basically OWNS the rights to produce the seminar in our city. She is NOT the facliitator, but rather a lovelable grandmotherly "volunteer" who says she works out of the good of heart. She always claims that NO one but the facilitator gets paid. However, it now makes sense why ALL money decisions have to go by her. The board will always say that only this lady can give refunds, ect....

I can't connect the dots financially here. How do I find out HOW the profits get shared by most LGATs? My gut knows that this woman who works like 20-30 hours a week with such tireless zeal recruiting people is making a commission for each recruit or has some other money connection. She is not likely doing it just to "help people lead centered lives" as she claims, especially since she "owns" the rights to LIfestream in our area and other similar "rights" in other cities, and thus. I assume she is paid a royalty everytime the seminar is presented. I also think maybe she gets a commission like so much per person. But maybe I am being to suspicious.

I gave them 3 years of free labor and never complained. I just want to know if I am on target with my guess that she (and others) make a profit, or am I being unfair to them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. So far, I can't find much about how LGATs make money, who gets paid, and where the money goes.

My good friend is heavily involved with this group. SHe just did their advanced seminar in March and is now trying to convince me to do the basic. When she first started talking about it a few years ago, I was hesitant and kind of weirded out. I went to her fiance's advanced seminar graduation a few years ago and was extremely weirded out, especially when complete strangers kept coming up and asking to hug me. I *really* don't like my personal space being violated. Anyway, 6 months after the seminar, said friend's fiance was in the psych ward for a month after a suicide attempt. She doesn't see the link here. When I brought up the fact that LGAT's have been connected with psychotic breaks and suicides, she said "Well, that's very sad and unfortunate, but people commit suicide for a lot of reasons." She never would have said something like this a few months ago.

When we talk, it's like she's speaking a whole new language and I get the sense that she thinks I'm being obstinate for not wanting to do this whole thing. I have my own mental health issues, and I *know* participating in a group like this would be incredibly detrimental. It especially raises red flags when she tells me that she can't tell me what happens at these things because it will ruin my experience if I decide to go. We are best friends. I am her son's godmother and am in her wedding. And yet she can't tell me what she did with a bunch of strangers for a week?

Anyway, not sure what my point is here. I'm mostly just kind of ranting, also happy to see someone posting about this group, as information/experiences from people seems to be kind of hard to find. If you have any information you can share with me, I'd appreciate it.

Great job! Thanks for speaking up. It is important for people to speak up about this kind of stuff. Would you mind if I quoted you on my website.

I started a website called [www.accessschism.com] Access Schism in an effort to expose the Access Consciousness cult for the nefarious crap they have going on there.

I would like to quote you if I could.

It has been operating here in Jacksonville area and several other places for a long time. It all came from Werner Erhard and EST seminars.

The people are nice and not creepy really. It's mostly just people looking to improve their life. But the techniques give you a euphoria and a high and then you crash unless you KEEP on going and going and spending more cash. It is very bad for folks who already have emotional issues because you feel "fixed" and "all better" and then eventually you crash and feel worse than ever because you "failed" at it. if you confess any doubts about it, you will be told you failed and that you need to repeat the whole thing (for more $$$ of course).

The whole logic they use is totally circular. Lifestream fixes all problems and if you ain't fixed it is because you failed at Lifestream and need to repeat it until you get it.

. Plus, NO ONE there is a trained therapist. The woman who leads it in Jacksonville owns State Farm Insurance with no training in social work or psychology. She is a saleswoman. period. the same family as her run it other places. they are all business folks not therapists or anything

The leaders are VERY pushy and aggresive about making you "Share" it with everyone you know. It feels like Amway in that way. That becomes the whole focus at some point and they make you feel really bad if you can't recruit lots of folks. They teach you how to manipulate people into signing up

In Chicago IL Jan-June 1978 I worked for a life insurance company. Lifestream was a seminar we were encouraged to attend. I went to the beginners meditation. The Third seminar cost more than I could afford so I did not attend. My coworkers who attended told me afterward when I asked how it was, " There was a lot of sex. So I believe to answer what Dwern's question what did she do with lots of strangers was copulation with multiple partners during each meditation.