Hi Hopeful Soul

I think that there have been a number of positives from the pandemic, and many people are shifting their priorities as a result. It's true that LGATs will battle to function in these conditions, but I don't think it's realistic to believe that they won't kick off again with a vengeance when a vaccine emerges. They are waiting patiently, and they will be back destroying lives as soon as they are given half a chance. My view is that we shouldn't give them that half a chance.

John, I understand your frustration that we aren't all jumping to get on YouTube with our stories, but the way I see it, it's kind of a trade-off.

If I were to get on YouTube, they would be able to identify me, and then I would have to be careful about what I said, lest I ended up getting sued. I think that most of us would also be concerned over the safety of family members, etc. On this forum, I can post anonymously, and that has allowed me to give more information. I think that many of us are digging for information that we can use against Landmark in court. There are tons of testimonials that should make that easy enough, but the problem is proving our allegations. I will show my face if we get them into court.

@Hopeful Soul, I think the fact that they have moved to an online format might be helpful, in some ways. I don't think that some of their tactics would be as effective, especially the stuff that's designed to subtly, physically manipulate the participants.

They could still cause sleep deprivation, I guess, but they can't keep people crowded into a windowless room, or mess with the room temp. People could sit and munch on snacks, go to the bathroom as needed. It would greatly reduce their physical control of participants. Also, people who would otherwise be chased down the hall and talked out of walking out can just switch off the computer. It's so much easier! I don't think they can control people as easily that way. Maybe more will see right through it, but I really don't know. We can hope.

Hi kdag

I am frustrated that these bullies have intimidated good people like you, and Hopeful Soul, and StopLGATS, and Freda_Last, and ellenaaa, and facet, and concernedprof, and SpeakingUp, and Truthnow, and GloriaG, and TalkingMouse, and SaneAgain, and dwyern , and Noncompliant94, and Free from this cult, and Dopamine Link, and ConcernedandSad, and anonday, and The Anticult, and Lady Pleiades (2003), righttofight (2003), and Hope (2003)… and so many others who… like Hope… appear to have lost hope, and are no longer active on these boards.

These posts go back for seventeen years… and you know that before this platform was available people experienced the same fear and intimidation. I also think that you know that if we don’t do something – if we live in hope that someone else will sort this out for us – that there will be people on these boards twenty years from now talking about kdag and John Hunter PhD and StopLGATs... wondering where we have gone. The people who have disappeared from these boards did not disappear because they found peace. They disappeared because they thought that doing this… what we are doing right now… would make a difference. It doesn’t… and the evidence of its ineffectiveness is there to see for all who take the time to read through every heart-breaking post on these boards (which I have).

I acknowledge the risks of making yourselves visible [www.youtube.com], but this is exactly what Leah Remini has done with Scientology – she allowed the world to see the people behind the many stories of abuse, and that shook the world into caring. It’s easy for the public (and academics… who I have engaged with for ten years now) to blame the people who get involved in LGATs for the abuse they suffer. It’s easier for the public to convince themselves that you are gullible fools, than for them to understand that you are really good people, who were taken advantage of by these monsters. It is risky to show your face, but this is what these brave ex-Scientologists have done, and they have saved so many people from the abuse of this organisation with their courage. They have shown the world that they are not afraid, that they cannot be intimidated, that they are good, intelligent people who were manipulated… and it is these real stories that have allowed the world to REALLY see Scientology for what it is. Remini has a show, but what is stopping us other than fear? I’ve tried the Netflix route, I’ve worked with a production company and an executive producer in LA, I’ve collected horrific undercover footage from inside one of these trainings, I’ve written a PhD and a book, but the truth is that this will not do much. By standing together, we can destroy these organisations in a day... and I think that we all know that. If videos start appearing then their power is broken, but they want us afraid... and controlled... like they had us when we were in that room. The truth is that if we remain silent, and hidden, then we are still in that room... we are still cowering before that bully who told us that we were weak, and pathetic, and responsible for all of our suffering. I refuse to be bullied, and to live in fear any longer.

I make reference… below that video… to some people (both real and fictional) who have inspired me… and who have inspired many others – Mohammed Ali, Nelson Mandela, Spartacus, William Wallace, Cool Hand Luke – and it’s easy to convince ourselves that these people had some sort of special powers. They didn’t, and that’s why they are worthy of admiration. They were just people – like you and me - who refused to be bullied and who stood up for what is right. Everyone gets to make that choice. Nelson Mandela was in prison for 27 years but, because of his “unconquerable soul” he was always free... [www.youtube.com]

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate,
I am the captain of my soul.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2020 11:12AM by John Hunter PhD.

John,

Yes, Leah Remini has been brave, as have the others whom she has interviewed. But what have the tangible results been? I haven't seen the church of Scientology shut down. I haven't seen arrests. In fact, COS has expanded, in recent years, into my state. It wasn't here before. She gives warnings to those who will listen, but she hasn't stopped them.

People who do their research before signing up will stumble onto this forum, or one like it. But I wouldn't risk everything in my life for anything less than a NXIVM level takedown. Now that's worth going for!

Hi kdag

I think there's generally far greater awareness of the abuses among the public, and I would say that LGATs (because they go by different names) and because of the deliberate deception before attending are more hidden (they are often seen as unrelated). I do understand, and respect, your decision... but Landmark and Co seem to be a little more cautious than KR when it comes to things that will lead to that sort of "take-down". Their strength is in their secrecy and in the lack of easily-observable harm (they are not branding members and they've hidden their 'god' to some degree since 1991). Since they aren't as reckless, I don't see this ultimate take-down happening in court, where sleazy lawyers can twist the truth.

John, you're right about much of that, and everything about them is sleazy. I'm not giving up hope of that takedown, though. There is also timing involved. Why show our hand, (or our identities), before we've got everything lined up to act?

They will try to destroy the credibility of anyone who they consider a threat, so I give warnings here, and vivid descriptions of behavior, saving names, times and places for those who actually do want to go after them legally. Those people do exist.

I have much respect for your approach. I know nothing about the legal system in your neck of the woods, and I'm no expert, even here. I do know that these organizations set legal booby traps in their consent forms, and play games with words, so they manage to sidestep the law, where they don't out and out break it. Still, they do break laws. We will prove that, eventually.

* I should add that, in reality, those legal booby traps in their forms are "empty and meaningless," however. When you look at those contracts with a clear head, it's obvious to most that they would never hold up in court.

What I imagine is that they will all someday be charged under the RICO Act, (which is all about racketeering). It's ironic how they talk so much about "rackets," as they seem to operate exactly the same as any other organized crime ring.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2020 07:49PM by kdag.

John Hunter PhD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi everyone
>
> I've just put a video together in which I
> shamelessly plug my (free) book, and provide a
> link to it:
>
> [youtu.be]
>
> Obviously, the primary goal of the book is to
> alert the public of what goes on in LGATs, and so
> I'm asking that you watch it and - if you do like
> it - then like it. Additionally, if you've read
> the book (or my PhD) and can comment on them, then
> that would really help as well.
>
> Thanks

Hi John,

I hope that you are doing as best as possible right now.

I have read the phd which is really enjoyable, despite the subject there is much to learn from it and it was easy to read.

With the book I think there is a lot of stripping down to do, and there are a few things in there that would be better not included due to their personal nature, for your self care :-).

Ps I can see why you would like others to make videos or be more out there, though everyone’s got a different way of helping and even if they do not this is ok because they know best for them.

Sometimes you’ve just got to do your bit, whatever it is that you’re able, set it free without focusing on specific outcome, and then just going on to living the best and fullest life as possible... lgats free.

It is frightening to realise that you once trusted your life in the hands of people who had no care if you live or die, that fear is perfectly acceptable for the situation.

One day they might be much less heard of, especially if the laws of the lands ever step in, though they’ll end up somewhere still, if there is a market and money to be made they will be there.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 04:12AM by facet.

Hi facet

I appreciate the feedback and you are certainly right about all of this. As I explain in the foreword, the book is about how psychological pain and abuse can push people into a "transformative" (hypomanic/manic) state and how our emotions can distort our judgment... which is why I included things of a personal nature (a break-up with someone I loved... which caused the psychological pain... which pushed me into a manic state... which allowed me to write the book in less than three weeks).

The book is dedicated to the person who broke my heart, because I was so in love her and because I was so worried about her, having broken up with her (she battled with a few things that are addressed in some depth in the book... which made the relationship impossible). Anyone who knows what happened between the two of us will realise that, like corboy, I was betrayed by someone that I loved and trusted... in the worst possible way... yet I blamed myself for this, and even begged for her forgiveness on the final page. Although I loved her and treated her with nothing but care and support, she was emotionally abusive and managed to convince me that I was responsible for everything that went wrong.

While it hurts to admit it, I can only laugh at myself for the irony of this situation - I dedicated a book on emotional manipulation and abuse (gaslighting and convincing good people that they are to blame for the pain in their lives) to someone who abused me psychologically and, through incredible gaslighting, convinced me that I was to blame for this extraordinary abuse. When all the evidence in the world told me that I had been betrayed, I could not handle the truth and convinced myself of the most unlikely version of events... because it protected my broken heart, and allowed me to keep seeing this person I loved as someone worthy of this love.

So, as someone with a PhD on manipulation and bipolar disorder, I was manipulated and pushed into a bipolar state (mania). While in this manic state...which I may still be in to some degree... I was convinced that I was not manic (but "transformed"), which... of course... is what I argue occurs to most people who participate in LGATs. Although this might seem embarrassing, and perhaps I will view it in this way at some point, I quite like the fact that I've revealed how vulnerable I am to trusting the intuitive mind rather than the rational mind (like I argue EVERYONE IS in my book). If ever there was evidence that I'm speaking from a place of experience, rather than braying condescendingly to readers as many academics and authors do, it can be seen in the fact that I beg forgiveness from the very person who abused and betrayed me. I'm unsure if a more ironic situation has ever existed.

It's difficult not to be hurt by this sort of betrayal and gaslighting, and I am completely heartbroken, but I imagine that there are things that CJ went through which have contributed to her behaviour and her many personal struggles. It's difficult not to hate her for what she did to me, knowing (as you do, since you read both my book and my PhD) the extraordinary pain I've experienced as a result of bipolar disorder, and how difficult it has been for me to learn to trust my own thinking... but while I am hurt and angry right now I know this will pass, and that I'm going to be okay. I believe that there is some good in her (a lot of good) and that hating her, while tempting, will never allow this good to come out. All I can do is forgive her, try not to judge her (also, very difficult), and pray that her life is filled with the sort of joy, happiness, and peace that will heal her. It's her birthday today, so I will be thinking of her and hopefully (if she ever reads this) she will know that she was loved and that I just want her to be happy.

My mental health is not great right now, but I think I will be okay in time. I have incredible family and friends and a job that I love, so I'm optimistic that this pain will lessen over time. Thanks to all of you for the kindness and support you've provided me (and each other) on this board. I really hope that the abuses in these trainings (and by these organisations) will be known to the world at some point, but I will be taking a break for now to try and recover. I hope that some of my work will be useful, but - for now - I'm going to leave it in your collective hands.

Kind regards

John



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 08:43AM by John Hunter PhD.

Hi John,

Yes you will be ok in your own time, that is true and I’m glad that you’re managing yourself in the ways that you know best, I think not managing yourself can land you into possibly worse health, so it is good to know that you take care.

‘it can be seen in the fact that I beg forgiveness from the very person who abused and betrayed me.’

That is exactly what they do though isn’t it? People who are not responsible for them selves lay it everywhere else except for where the responsibility truly belongs, with them.

This is a large part of why you’l see me tell everybody (including you) to take good care of themselves John, because people out only for themselves actively look for those who treat themselves as a second best, so that they can too.

Sometimes we do not realise it, but we are advertising that we’re second best.. even in something simple like being kind. lgats or anything else must not come first, not even for the sake of a take down.

I hope that you’l treat yourself as a most exceptionally valuable person just for being John, never mind the work and anything else. Not above others, but you know what I mean, I hope? :D.

.. and I know that sometimes they can seem like they are against you rather than for you, though your friends and family support is a very good thing you are right. Go with the flow.

Wishing you the very best of the best !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 04:52PM by facet.