Thanks Kdag, I will certainly go on to read the book after your further sharing.

I did read the excerpt, though then looked for some reviews on it and read that hypnosis was a theme, so I dropped it because it is really important to me to be careful in what I expose myself to as a matter of taking care of myself. Nothing comes before that.

I’m really interested to read, and if they mention anything about Limbic resonance in that process too.

I really like what Corboy has said about turn on your heels up there.

I understand that it is difficult, and who is exempt from making mistakes? None of us, though making firm decisions and just trusting in ourselves regardless is important.

Agreed too that the legal stuff, it would not stand a chance. I won’t mention why I say that, if there are those lurking as mentioned then it will give them the answers.. sheesh, so I’ll say a lot less so publicly from now on ! :D

Thank you all for sharing the insights and materials in the thread which are indispensable. We all have valuable unique experiences and perspectives, in sharing that it is helpful for anyone who is looking for it, on both ends of the scale !!

Sorry for the sidetrack, (again), John Hunter, PhD

Back to what you're saying, "Landmark, like LGATs before it, does not explicitly state, “Do not think, and do not challenge what is being said, because it is difficult to manipulate you when you do this”,"

We no, they don't explicitly state that, but you learn very quickly that if you challenge anything, you will spend the next 20 minutes or so being verbally beaten over the head by the Forum leader, which is very aversive. I think they make it more or less a conditioned reflex to just keep one's mouth shut and go along. Yes, I experienced almost all of those things at Landmark.

On to the video: yes, I found the Landmark lawyer laughable, as well, as I recall reading the list of thought-reform tactics, and thought that Landmark fit all of them, though they do try to disguise it.

About the psychologists who said they'd interviewed participants, I would assume that they only bothered with the ones who were enthusiastic. I don't know how they would determine anything from those interviews, though, as to whether or not certain tactics were being used. I recall trying to ask my recruiter about what goes on in the course, and it's just about impossible to get any straight answers, especially in regards to a description of the tactics, (oh, it's experiential"
," etc).

facet,

I read the book when it first came out. I have read that he has added to it. I liked the original version. I can't vouch/don't know what was added later.

Personally, I don't worry about being hypnotized unawares by written material. I have read some books, (not this one), that had self-hynosis exercises, but it told me what they were. I could choose to do them, or not. I would just skip those, if I were worried about it. Maybe I'm not as sensitive to it as some people. I would NOT try to dissuade you from protecting yourself. If you see anything that seems suspect to you, skip it. From what I recall, I would not expect that. The author is a security expert, not a new age guru, and definitely not an LGAT leader.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2020 08:42PM by kdag.

Hi Kdag,

It’s ok, I know that you are not trying to get me to not take care of myself, and besides, doing that is my responsibility anyway so I wouldn’t lay that on anyone else, no worries at all.

I’ll stop reading if it’s not for me, I’m lethal like that because I’m worth it hehe .

John, it really has to be questioned why so many certified and therefore often immediately trusted professionals endorse and gaslight those who are and have been involved in lgats, who to them (certified pros) may well be ‘customers’.

What a great way to keep a livelihood coming in.

It is probably easy for me to say with my trust no one policy, though plenty of abusers and manipulators hide behind job titles and descriptions as a disguise from my observation.

Sadly, there is corruption to be found in most everything. I’d be laughing at the blunt lies too, because it’s so ridiculous. It’s only natural to respond in that way.

Note: I don’t want to insinuate that all professionals are corrupt, just that it exists for awareness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2020 09:43PM by facet.

Dear John, I wrote in generalizations. The ones I was thinking of were the persons who have not only taken the LGAT introductory seminar but have gone on to do the advanced courses offered by that LGAT.

I confess I have a bias of sorts. I got entangled in a cultic situation by a combination of personal vulnerability on my part and a person I regarded as a long time friend, who was actually in a cultic group. She referred me to her therapist, also a member of that group. After I started seeing that therapist and got emotionally involved, she acted like I'd "joined the club".

She had been weaponized. I have no idea to this day, whether X was consciously aware of being a recruiter, or what level of indoctrination she'd received.

Getting back to LGATs and Landmark, I've always wondered where Erhard got the idea for arranging the room set up to guarantee physical discomfort and psychological disorientation.

Sophisticated stuff.

I've wondered too if Erhard got ideas by studying literature describing the methods used by Communist regimes and POW camps to break people, get them to believe in and confess the treason of their past lives and then indoctrinate them and get them to rat on group members who continue to dissent.

No way to prove this but I've wondered. This is the material Lifton studied and he met and interviewed survivors of these indoctrination methods.

I'm sorry you went through that, corboy. Nothing hurts more than betrayal by those we love and trust.

I'm mostly over it now.

My awareness of cults was far above average and I still got seduced.

Was bummed out by parental death that left me guilt ridden, no family, living in own apartment for first time.

Classic sitting duck situation.

When the going gets tough it is *human* and appropriate to trust someone who has been a close friend, with whom you've gotten arrested at peace demonstrations.

My pal was in a very clever setup, may never have known shed been weaponized.

Which is why its so important to educate the public and make resources available to anyone who has misgivings.

Thanks for joining the discussion here at CEI.

I now have much better buddies in my life, heh, heh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2020 04:43AM by corboy.

Yesterday I explained the conditions of thought reform as they apply to LGATs:

[www.youtube.com]


Today I made a video which explains other insights from social and cognitive psychology, as they apply to LGATs:

[www.youtube.com]

(THIS FURTHER EXPOSES THE LIES FROM AUTHORITY FIGURES LIKE DR RAYMOND FOWLER WHO, AS THE HEAD OF THE AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION, PERSONALLY ENDORSED LANDMARK IN 1999 AND CLAIMED THAT HE COULD SEE NO EVIDENCE AT ALL OF ANY MANIPULATION.)

In this video I explain "reciprocal connections" and why LGAT leaders insist on APPLAUSE at strategic points during the training. (This would fall under what Lifton (1961) calls "MYSTICAL MANIPULATION"...):

[www.youtube.com]

In this video I provide evidence for the effectiveness of thought reform ("brainwashing"):

[www.youtube.com]