It came to my attention recently that the head administrator of a large medical clinic in my hometown is an advanced graduate from Landmark. He was able to enroll some doctors and staff from his clinic, but I think the majority of doctors see all of this as somewhat cultish (thanks to educational sites like RR).

I'm not sure about the risks involved with Landmark infiltrating the medical community. Is there any precedent? Since Landmark promotes pseudo-science and pseudo-medicine (like self-healing or group healing), could this eventually affect the quality of care? It looks to me as if Landmark core beliefs are incompatible with conventional medicine.

Hi Mike,

Good topic. There is precedent. A Landmark advanced grad who is also a nurse is actively pursuing bringing a heavy dose of the complimentary and alternative medicine movement into a local rehab center for disabled individuals where she works. I see that the ideologies of LGATS, including Landmark, line up well with the ideologies of CAM. I don't have time to expand on this now -- maybe later. But in short, there is magical thinking, misuse of science (theoretical physics in particular), focus on Self, and a quest for healing in both.

I do think that it does/will affect quality of care. I think it is on skepdic.com that LGATs are described as giving false hope to those who are looking for hope. I see CAM as doing the same. People desperate for a cure or at least relief, are drawn to the hyped promises, and are offered hope, although I personally believe it is a false hope. Many of these techniques are also unproven and poorly, if at all, tested. Who knows what harm is being done?

There are similarities in language, particularly the term "co-creating." You co-create your health in the CAM movement.

Here's a quick link that touches on this. It's not the best -- I'll try to find better ones, but it's a start.
[www.csicop.org]

-lightwolf

Depends on whether the doctors view Landmark as "one of many" modalities... the best medical people haven learned not to be overly dogmatic.... poor results should be expected when medical training has emphasized a rigid, single protocol fits all philosophy of treatment...

Erhardian concepts become highly problematic when they are incorporated at the identity level... which seems to be one of the effects of using their idiosyncratic jargon and idiosyncratic grammar.

"You are at cause" might be a useful statement for the patient who is consistenly seeking a pharmacologic solution to a behavior pattern, like overeating. The same utterance to a cancer patient might be worse than useless.

Where this community must treat lightly, if it treads at all, is the assignment of "racket".... as any informed person knows by now this concept will be eagerly taken up by HMOs who would love one further justification for denying or limiting treatment. If the corporate health care delivery sector can align itself with a (supposedly) neutral philosophy/ life-system that minimizes institutional responsibility and maximizes personal burden.... which, surprise, surprise, surprise.... maximizes profitability... what Philosophic Delivery System do you expect will appeal to them ?

My own experience with Erhardianism is that it does tend to make its adherents better listeners and less ready to "rush to category" in certai n interactions, on the other hand, it also can make its adherents spectacularly bad communicators in general BECAUSE Erhardians make a serious belief level error about mental functioning. They assume, or they sure do an excellent job of appearing to assume, that the brain is sort of a black box that runs pretty much identical internal operations.... and one of their "truth level" assumptions is that once the "racket" is "cleaned up" this black box will run at a much higher accuracy, and everyone shares the same form of accuracy and thought processing.

Unfortunately, this is a dumbed down (if that is possible) model of what Scientology "knows" about mental operations, and it is also an erroneous belief.

Minds work in greatly different ways such that the images, metaphors, language patterns, operational sequences, teaching thechniques, etc. that are appropriate and effective for one mind may be completely ineffective or perhaps destructive for another mind. Erhardianism appears to be wholly ignorant or wholly dismissive of this fundamental reality, as every informed person knows.

If leaders in the medical community suddenly take it upon themselves to reverse decades of brain science and everything it has taught us about essential difference in brain function, in the service of a highly conjectural mind philosophy, one, it is being precipitate, and two, it is being arbitrary... both of which, preciptatness (rushing to structure based on a limited information set), and arbitrariness (choosing between available options on the basis of emotion, whim, or casual understanding) are essentially anti-science activities...

And we hope they know better.

Mike,

A few weeks ago I stumbled across a very interesting organization. Interesting in how it is consumed with the global consciousness movement, particularly healing (not interesting in that I buy any of this stuff though). "What the Bleep" is featured prominently, in fact they have a study guide that has all sorts of the familiar lingo in it. Their message boards aren't the best organized, but if you take the time to walk through them, there are nuggets to be found. I haven't had the time to really catalog anything, but this is a rich place to find some links to the things you are looking for.

Here's the link: [www.noetic.org]

This was founded by Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, who evidently didn't come all the way back to Earth. Here are some excerpts from the site. Can you see some of the familiar language here:

Quote

At the Institute of Noetic Sciences, we employ the rigor of science, balanced by personal and collective wisdom, to support a shift in consciousness that transforms present global conditions into a world grounded in freedom, wisdom, and love. We serve an emerging movement of globally conscious citizens dedicated to manifesting our highest capacities.

The Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS):

* Explores the frontiers of consciousness
* Builds bridges between science and spirit
* Researches subtle energies and the powers of healing
* Inquires into the science of love, forgiveness, and gratitude
* Studies the effects of conscious and compassionate intention
* Seeks to understand the basis of prevailing worldviews
* Practices freedom of thought and freedom of spirit

(From [i:577ea9d8b7]Vision and Mission[/i:577ea9d8b7] Page)

--------------------

We are a nonprofit membership organization located in Northern California that conducts and sponsors leading-edge research into the potentials and powers of consciousness—including perceptions, beliefs, attention, intention, and intuition. The institute explores phenomena that do not necessarily fit conventional scientific models, while maintaining a commitment to scientific rigor. . . .

Rather, we honor open-minded approaches and multiple ways of knowing, bring discernment to our work, and support diversity of perspectives on social and scientific matters.

(From [i:577ea9d8b7]About the Institute[/i:577ea9d8b7] Page)

---------------------

The mission of these noetic scientists was, and has been, to expand our understanding of human possibility by investigating aspects of reality—mind, consciousness, and spirit—that include but go beyond physical phenomena. They seek to seek to understand the inner world as thoroughly as we have the outer world—based on the premise that what finds expression in the world at large is a reflection of our interior landscape.

(From the [i:577ea9d8b7]History [/i:577ea9d8b7]Page)

Hmmm. Sounds like what we don't know we don't know to me. Glad they are there to figure all this out for us, aren't you? As for the "scientific rigor" part . . . . From what I can tell, it seems more like scientific rigor mortis.

I loved the ad for the "Creating a Conscious Life" workshop. If this is conscious living, I'll take mine unconscious -- to go -- root beer no ice please.

Anyway, enjoy digging around. There is tons more good stuff. It is fascinating in a freak show sort of way.

-lightwolf

P.S. Be careful if you ever type the url in by hand. My fingers have a strong tendency to type neurotic instead of noetic. :lol:

doubt health care recruiting is unique to any lgat. Money, ?credibility? etc, etc



CONSULTING. Sterling Management Systems, formed in 1983, has been ranked in recent years by Inc. magazine as one of America's fastest-growing private companies (estimated 1988 revenues: $20 mil- lion). Sterling regularly mails a free newsletter to more than 300,000 health-care professionals, mostly dentists, promising to increase their incomes dramatically. The firm offers seminars and courses that typically cost $10,OOO. But Sterling's true aim is to hook customers for Scientology. "The church has a rotten product, so they package it as something else," says Peter Georgiades, a Pittsburgh attorney who represents Sterling victims. "It's a kind of bait and switch." Sterling's founder, dentist Gregory Hughes is now under investigation by California's Board of Dental Examiners for incompetence. Nine lawsuits are pending against him for malpractice (seven others have been settled), mostly for orthodontic work on children.

Emissaries of Divine Light
Whole Health Institute (WHI): aimed at recruiting doctors and health care practitioners. Still operating as of 2002:

Oh boy - I was just trying to recall the name of that website - neurotic . com, agnost.. noetic.com!!! I was getting their newsletters after my doc referred me to someone's work on that page.

He also was a supporter of this nonprofit.

[www.maps.org]

A friend of mine called MAPS and spoke with Rick Doblin's right hand person (they all have one - sort of like a groupy). My friend had been sexually assaulted years ago and read the "research" on MDMA and PTSD. My doc was also recommending MDMA "therapeutically." My friend never spoke to Rick, but Rick told his right hand person to tell my friend that he didn't think she had been assaulted. The right hander lowered her voice, as if in reverence, and stated that Rick is very, very intuitive.

Both orgs had materials at the "Prophet's Conference" which I also attended in NYC - Ram Dass, Stan Grof, Oriah Mountain Dreamer, Robert Anton Wilson and (sadly) Huston Smith - a cast of thousands. This audience was full of psychologists and other health care providers, which I found really frightening. Therapists were going up to the microphone and showing off with their tales of "cured" clients that they tried psychedelics on, as well as their own trips, trying to impress Dass and Grof. To his credit, Huston Smith wasn't interested and told them to stop.

I'm happy to say I never could figure out what the hell these people were talking about, what the hell Alan Watts was saying, and the weird quiet guy on Oprah - can't think of his name - Seat of the Soul was his book. It wasn't me not getting it - they just weren't saying anything.

Quote
Hope
Oh boy - I was just trying to recall the name of that website - neurotic . com,

LOL! :lol: See what I mean! I'm not the only one. Thanks Hope!

-lightwolf

...

also, Hope, you repeated a statement third-hand (from Rick Doblin to his assistant to your friend) as if factual.

though I do not have any opinion of Rick Doblin (having not heard of him before your post) I know that information gets lost in transmission and that he may have said no such thing. even if he did, he doesn't represent the whole field of psychedelics researchers.

psychedelics research.... hmmmm.... yeah... I knew Grof, spent time with him and his wife... Grof last time I saw him seemed thoroughly sick and tired of the alternative consciousness scene and all the head cases that hang around, waiting for Godot or whatever... I think what Grof had reluctantly concluded... at least this appeared to be his implied attitude on the subject, was that at a certain historical juncture, LSD and other psychedelics DID represent a legitimate alternative path around the hard mass of consensus reality, BUT that psychedelic culture had grown repulsively self indulgent, escapist, childish, and maybe with the exception of being integrated into ritualistic traditional culture usage, where there was a longstanding transmission of genuine shamanistic practice (not a bunch of colorful Osho followers eating mushroooms in Thailand and giving each other STDs) the use of iboga, peyote, don pedro, salvia, ayhuasca and similar "entheogenic" materials could play a vital role in something like "traditional psychotherapy".... Alas, american culture isn't always the best place to transplant these activities BECAUSE we have our own deeply held superstitions about "near instantaneous profound change"..... seen from the outside such beliefs may be as untenable as what we see as withcraft, although we may unquestioningly believe in our own witchcrafts as fervently as tribal cultures believe in theirs.