Hi leftcoast,

Severe eye-rolling is probably the most appropriate response! I chuckle at the absurdity of the communication, but it also wants to make me heave. I've heard this same language too. There must be some secret writing course they have, Writing Fluff For Lekkies or something, where they learn to write in their scripts. Can you imagine a world where we all talked like that? What a nightmare!

Dynamix really hit it on the head here, especially:

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Dynamix
Telling you that she'll "never give up on whatever relationship we have" is sneaky, she's thinking that she's being totally selfless in taking the blame and that her motives are pure (which in her mind, they are, remember that part) where as in fact it's tricky because it makes you feel guilty and cons you into giving her her "win."

My experience with Landmark is selfless=selfish. In one of my earlier posts I said that I don't trust anything a Lekkie tells me. The quote above is partly why -- so much of what goes on is a shell game, and trust is impossible when you have to wonder if you are subtly being "enrolled." I think the communication she gave you is largely an enrollment conversation -- she is just taking a different tack at it, becoming very disarming and "vulnerable" (falsely), in order to build some rapport and trust, in order to get your defenses down. The clinch phrase is the "You don't need to do Landmark . . . " phrase. No better way to make a sale than to say they don't need it.

In Landmark, the measure of their results is enrollment. Always be enrolling. Whatever you are doing, get people to enroll in what YOU are doing. How selfish.

I wouldn't give this any energy in response, leftcoast. I find there is nothing that deflates them more than to be untouched, unmoved, and uninspired by what they do/say (even what appear to be compliments). Sounds like you're doing great overall with this. Keep doing what you're doin'.

-lightwolf

"I get that........." :roll: I can't count the number of times I hear that start to a sentence. In my case it is used as a way to cut you off. In other words I hear what you are saying but I really don't want to hear it so shut up!!
However, please remember these people have been brainwashed to believe that this is for the good of all mankind and their purpose in life should be to promote LEC to everyone. The person I know best who is involved really believes she is involved in something that is "making a difference".....in a GOOD way. I believe only a VERY few at the VERY top of the organization are aware of this "RACKET."

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lightwolf
Hi leftcoast,

Severe eye-rolling is probably the most appropriate response! I chuckle at the absurdity of the communication, but it also wants to make me heave. I've heard this same language too. There must be some secret writing course they have, Writing Fluff For Lekkies or something, where they learn to write in their scripts. Can you imagine a world where we all talked like that? What a nightmare!

I'm tempted to do one of two things (though I'll probably end up doing neither.)-- 1. Call her on the BS statement that "No one needs to do Landmark to have an amazing life" and ask her if it's not necessary, then why does she continue? Or 2. Tell her I will meet with her, in person, to get all of this over and done with and she can get out whatever it is she needs to get out. With one stipulation however: As soon as she stops speaking English, and stars speaking Lekkie, I will simply get up, walk out, and never look back.

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My experience with Landmark is selfless=selfish. In one of my earlier posts I said that I don't trust anything a Lekkie tells me. The quote above is partly why -- so much of what goes on is a shell game, and trust is impossible when you have to wonder if you are subtly being "enrolled." [b:1a11f45cea] I think the communication she gave you is largely an enrollment conversation [/b:1a11f45cea]-- she is just taking a different tack at it, becoming very disarming and "vulnerable" (falsely), in order to build some rapport and trust, in order to get your defenses down. The clinch phrase is the "You don't need to do Landmark . . . " phrase. No better way to make a sale than to say they don't need it.

I fully agree--that was among my first thoughts/reactions (along with the eye-rolling). Her "passive recruitment" will never work, and I don't understand why she keeps telling me all this stuff. I just want to do something to make the bs [b:1a11f45cea]stop[/b:1a11f45cea] already! She's been trying to recruit me since she started--some 8 or 9 months ago. We're no longer even speaking with each other, but the recruitment doesn't stop!! Oh no, wait. It's not recruitment. It's "respect" because she wants to "related" to my life, because she cares about "what I'm up to in my life." Right? :roll: [/b]

I just couldn't resist.. I did ask her what she was trying to accomplish in sending me all these emails. I'm at work, and so I had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing at loud at her response.

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I have 3 goals with my e-mails:

1. To be respectful
2. To be related
3. To communicate clearly

1. FAILED
2. FAILED
3. FAILED

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leftcoast8
I just want to do something to make the bs [b:1f5bfc5f62]stop[/b:1f5bfc5f62] already!

I'm sure you know, leftcoast, that you can't make [b:1f5bfc5f62]her [/b:1f5bfc5f62]stop the BS. She's clearly been converted, and as my friend said to me, "this is the way I communicate now." She may not know how to speak English anymore. All you can do to make it stop is remove yourself from the discourse. Only you can decide if you want to take that step.

She and her coach will have pat answers to anything you ask. About the only other thing you can do is directly ask her to speak English around you. I did have some success with that in my situation, but it gets tiring policing that too.

-lightwolf

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lightwolf

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leftcoast8
I just want to do something to make the bs [b:344d8b0617]stop[/b:344d8b0617] already!

I'm sure you know, leftcoast, that you can't make [b:344d8b0617]her [/b:344d8b0617]stop the BS. She's clearly been converted, and as my friend said to me, "this is the way I communicate now." [i:344d8b0617]She may not know how to speak English anymore[/i:344d8b0617]. All you can do to make it stop is remove yourself from the discourse. Only you can decide if you want to take that step.

She and her coach will have pat answers to anything you ask. About the only other thing you can do is directly ask her to speak English around you. I did have some success with that in my situation, but it gets tiring policing that too.

-lightwolf

She clearly doesn't speak english anymore. It went from 60/40 favoring Landmark a month ago, to about 95/5 favoring landmark now. The bulk of the emailing only took place today, and it's already exhausted me! I did respond to something she had written earlier, and shouted (bold and caps) for her to speak English if she had anything of importance to say to m. It only partially worked. I got a reply, longer this time, with less substance, but a higher concentration of english.

It's amazing.. All this work, just to figure out what on earth compelled her to write to me. She admitted that "clearing" the gossip was part of an agreement she made for the ILP, but claims that everything after that initial email (which she deemed a horrible mistake) was of her own choosing. Goodness only knows why.

Ditto what everyone else has said.

I recall when my lekkie friend first got in contact post-Landmark, he apologised for something that I hadn't even noticed (and still couldn't see even after he pointed it out to me). I kept saying, "There's no need to apologise, I hadn't even noticed, there's no problem there", and yet he kept apologising away. If he really wanted to apologise for something, I can think of a few things that rank way higher with me -- I was really tempted to tell him, when he was blathering on, what I really [i:97e9126127]would[/i:97e9126127] like him to apologise for, but I didn't have the stomach for it.

leftcoast -- I don't mean this in any nasty sarky way, honestly -- but why are you e-mailing her back? I'm asking purely out of curiosity. If it were me, I'd probably e-mail her back too (again, out of curiosity for what she'd come up with). Is that why you're e-mailing her, or are you hoping that she'll experience a logic breakthrough, or it is something else?

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Savernake
leftcoast -- I don't mean this in any nasty sarky way, honestly -- but why are you e-mailing her back? I'm asking purely out of curiosity. If it were me, I'd probably e-mail her back too (again, out of curiosity for what she'd come up with). Is that why you're e-mailing her, or are you hoping that she'll experience a logic breakthrough, or it is something else?

That's pretty much it. Blind curiosity. I know not to expect anything logical or rational to come from her end. And I also know not to really believe anything she tells me (other than the fact that she's been talking about me--she's always done that). So... yeah. It's like a car wreck. You know you're not supposed to, but you just can't stop staring at it.

I completely understand what you mean -- I wouldn't be able to help myself either :)

But, in which case, have you considered sending her an e-mail back in carefully crafted Landmarkese, telling her exactly what you think of Landmark and her attempts to enroll you? You could probably crib enough from her e-mails to get the general gist of it ;)

Dear leftcoast

I am not proud to say that I myself have disconnected from friends within Landmark when I left. At the time talking to them was a difficult experience for me because of the memories it stirred up about the whole experience, and I had some people who would try to talk to me through email and over the phone - I just ignored them. I feel at the time it was the right thing to do because I was very confused and probably frightened that in my vulnerable state I would be talked into a meeting or a conference call. I really needed some time to think about everything that had happened, and really look at the other side before making up my mind. It's hard to explain the emotions that you go through after leaving. There's a certain amount of "phew, glad I'm off the roller coaster" but there is also a certain amount of fear that you've really missed this big opportunity Landmark offers you. It soon goes away when you remember how good your life was to begin with.

Disconnection is not something I generally condone as that usually is the end result of cult activity. Sometimes it is obvious; Scientology has a disconnection policy, where Scientologists are not allowed to talk to individuals who have been declared SPs (suppressive persons.)

In the case of Landmark, I know disconnection occurs there also, despite what they say about sending participants BACK to their family and friends to get cleaned up, this is misleading, because they're sending you back as a billboard for Landmark education (especially in the beginning when you're a zealot about it) some friends and family members will pick up on this and see this process as something artificial that the group has instigated (as you have noticed) and will therefore want to keep away from them.

And the other thing is that it works in reverse too, when I got out and told one of my few remaining LEC friends (most of the people in my group were told not to contact me by management) what I really thought about Landmark Education, he began to fiercely defend LEC and threaten me with disconnection. And he wouldn't let up until I basically caved in and said it really wasn't that bad and it was me that had a problem. I have accepted the fact that if I want to be friends with this guy, criticising or even talking about Landmark is a no-no. I think maybe he's kind of operating off that too, although recently he told me on the phone he'd like me to meet some Landmark friends of his, I pretended not to hear him because of static or something and he chickened out and said something else instead.

So yeah it really is a tricky situation. Just as I would ask you to really thoroughly look at both sides and listen to both opinions before making up your mind, it's the same with her, let her know about the other side, encourage her to look and read for herself, and not buy into Landmark's party line all the time. As hopeless as that option sounds (remember she's been told by Landmark that these evil people on the internet are all racketeers) it's probably just about the only thing you can do to help break down that wall.

A lot of people point out to me that they know people who have done Landmark courses and they're very nice productive people - I agree, I know landmark people too and they're generally nice people with nice jobs earning a good living. It's just that when they target you for "registration" it's deceptive, they don't tell you what you're in for and if you already have a bad opinion that they don't like, then they're not enrolling you correctly and they have to go back to get coached on how to best get you to take a course.

To be honest I myself really enjoyed the forum at the time, it was certainly a very stressful time but I did pick up a few little tools that I still use to this day. It was really the advanced course that messed me up because we got set up with this thing called the 'buddy system' where you can't get away with anything because if you're not "in the game", your partner's going to go rat on you to the course supervisor.

So yeah some of the tech I really think is valuable for people, what I'm really against is how the courses are run (squashing independent inquiry and derailing argumentative conversation) and traps built into the tech (disabling critical thinking) and pumping up the value of the technology (promoting zealotry.) Their policy of suing anyone who says anything bad and trying to close down discussion on the internet really stinks too.

So I have to agree with lightwolf, it's your decision what you decide to do, if she's important to you, try and get her to look at the other side, if not then just let her be I suppose.