Vic Luc:
I've read all the research concerning the types of people who are liekely to do the Forum. I phrased the question as a possible instrospective one.

If that's an attack, then this is just a board with people agreeing with each other, and no critial thinking is happening.



I might believe that your comment was "possibly an introspective one" but then you followed it up with vague accusations of me being a troll, a rat or a liar, so nothing you're saying really holds water.

And of course I am someone who might have done Landmark, long ago, before I know everything I know now. So what in the world would your point have been? What kind of introspection is that? It's not worth much. Sure wouldn't pay $ for it.

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vlinden
Vic-Luc:It has more utility and efficacy than medication, and it takes work. That's where I lose people. They don't want to do the work.


Oh, I just can't help myself. I have to ask . . .

You say you're a therapist? A cognitive behavioral therapist? Do your posts about me, and in response to me, reflect the methodology you use with your clients? Perhaps there's another reason you "lose people."

Here, let's review: After inferring in a very vague way that I may be a troll, or that there is something suspect in my posts that leads you to believe I would be attracted to Landmark (and what, therefore I am in Landmark now? or what? who knows, it's totally illogical), this is your response to my upset:

Yo, psycho! You and you ex got together for a reason! Perfect match! Stop slinging YOUR shit my way. I found some earlier statements confusing and said just that...EXACTLY what went down with Nutrino. HE WENT PSYCHO JUST LIKE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. AND LEFT.

WHICH IS WHAT I HOPE YOU DO. I THINK YOU'RE TROLLING FOR SYMPATHY AND WALLOWING IN IT, AND TROLLING FOR ARGUMENTS BY ACCUSING PEOPLE OF "ATTACKS."

GROW UP.

YOU GIVE MY FORMER CAREER A BAD NAME. YOU'RE NOT WRITING AN ARTICLE OR A BOOK, YOU'RE TROLLING FOR FIGHTS HERE NOW, FOR WHAT REASON I HAVE NO IDEA.

LEAVE ME ALONE. YOU COULD HAVE JUST SAID "VIC, I'M UNCLEAR TOO." INSTEAD YOU ACCUSED ME OF ATTACKING YOU AND BEGAN TROLLING FOR A FIGHT.

GO AWAY.

So . . . um . . . I don't know, maybe I'm just out of the "therapy" loop myself, but this just doesn't seem to reflect the kind of steady, considered response one would expect from a trained professional.

And you're wrong, I am writing an article, but I am not writing to you personally about it anymore because I didn't find your responses to me helpful, but instead very paranoid and illogical.

It's hard to keep the "professional therapist" role looking legit here if you're screaming and ranting like a child at other posters. Just a heads up.

Keep attacking me. It only makes you look worse. You went on a tirade about my intentions based on a 2-3 sentence statement. I'm not talking about your professional ethics or attacking you. I'm off the clock.

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vlinden
Vic Luc: I asked a question and she went on a tirade.


No, you didn't ask a question. You made an inference that could have many negative assumptions attached to it, considering what this board is about, and how many trolls are indeed here. Then you went on to infer that people were PMing you about me, asking if you smell "a rat."

I smell a rat, and it ain't me.

If you were actually a trained therapist dealing with psychotic patients, my "tirade" as such would never provoke you to the screaming rant you unleashed.

You're not my patient and neither is anyone here. That's the point you can't seem to grasp. You cann't accept responsibilty for being the first one to go off and attack ME, which makes you about the same as any Forum candidate.

"It's EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT BUT MINE, POOR ME! I DIDN'T START IT, HE DID!"

Follow the thread. Youa ccused me of running off Nutrino and "attacking you," in the beginning, and when I responded angrily for these FALSE accusations, you started to backpedal and assume no responsibility.

Um . . . no, Vic, see, you ARE attacking me. Calling someone a "psycho" is, in fact, an attack.

So again, is this how you treat your patients? Your psychotic patients? Do you call them "psycho"? Or do you withhold all your fury and unleash it here online instead?

Or do you even have patients?

Sorry, it's that unfortunate need for truth I seem cursed with. Guess I'll never know for sure, but I've got a feeling something is really wrong here . . . what could it be . . .

Damn right I'm not your patient. Which was my point in the beginning. I didn't ask for your opinion about my psyche, my motives, etc, nor do I want it.

And no, you didn't attack Nutrino, you just annoyed him to such a degree that he got so disgusted, he left. Such a pity.

Okay, Vic, let's call a truce. I'll believe you're a therapist, and you believe I'm not a troll, and we'll move on. I just think you shouldn't call people names and scream at them in forums because they interpret something you said as an attack. Instead maybe consider why they would interpret it that way.

Okay?

Have a good night.

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vlinden
Okay, Vic, let's call a truce. I'll believe you're a therapist, and you believe I'm not a troll, and we'll move on. I just think you shouldn't call people names and scream at them in forums because they interpret something you said as an attack. Instead maybe consider why they would interpret it that way.

Okay?

Have a good night.

Fine, just ask for clarification before saying someone "attacked you" and I didn't frustrate Nutrino. He got worked up over politics and was asked by moderators to cool it.

I'll give you a wonderful example: I wasn't sure what cult freedom fighter was in or the particulars, so I asked.

You're a journalist as was I. We don't initiate things half-cocked if we want to be taken seriously.

Attacking me as a therapist is pretty low. I help people for a living and I'm not monied as you possibly are. It's easy to throw potshots from where you are.

"They" would interpret it? I haven't had a problem with anyone here. Nada. As I have said MANY times earlier, I retaliated after you accused me of attacking you and accusing me of running Nutrino off...things you didn't bother thinking about that would be seen as inflammatory.

Sigh.

I loved what Nutrino was talking about, and I think it was one of the more important threads on this board. If moderators asked him to cool it, I think that's a shame. I'm very interested in the LGAT's relationship with current government and military.

It's easy for everyone to attack each other online. And no, I am not "monied" and have no idea what that has to do with anything.

However, I am very tired and stressed out from everything I've been through, and as a therapist I think you could have a bit more understanding as to how your original comment to me would put me totally on the defensive.

Anyway, we move on.

Good night.

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vlinden
However, I am very tired and stressed out from everything I've been through, and as a therapist I think you could have a bit more understanding as to how your original comment to me would put me totally on the defensive.

Vlinden, yeah you have been through a lot.

You're forgetting...so have I.

LE took someone really important away from me, a week after she finalized K-1 Visa paperwork. I live with this EVERY single day, and I educate my clients to AVOID these LGATs at all costs. I've had to do therapy with LE casualties. LE has unfortunately pervaded into my work, so as to I must educate clients as much as I can. I was hoping work would be my cocoon from LE.

Work was the only solace I had before LE. It was the only safe and healthy, helping, healing place I knew...and what I'm doing feels pure.

I have to say this: you got out of the relationship at a really good place, even though it hurts. My ex left me for full-time ILP overnight. I didn't have the luxury of closure. Just a big gap of "WHAT IF?"

What if I hadn't paid for her ticket to the US, and she wouldn't have had the money for the SELP?

What if I could have met her in London and gotten her out while she was just post-Forum?

I'm left with pain, the pain of knowing I was there for someone, helping them through homesickness and loneliness, to be dropped for a corporation in turn. With no thanks.

The crying? Six months later and it hasn't stopped.

Someone says the words "thank you for sharing" and my anger rises. I hear the word "possibilities" and see red.

What we have here at RR is Recovery. I'm glad to count Z as a friend who has worked on recovery from this with me, as a friend and otherwise. People here have helped me, and yes, I am wary of new people...almost as wary as oldtimers who see a newcomer enter a 12-step program. Is it safe? Will we all stay healthy as a unit?

And I didn't even do anything LE related, but I'm grateful for these people. They didn't have to help. I'm the only one in a very large area that knows anything about LGATs, and I hope to specialise in exit counseling in a few years.

When I'm off the clock, I'm not wearing a therapist hat. I'll talk theory, but otherwise, I'm here for recovery.

Take care and good night.

Guys....guys....wow! I go off for the day and come back and all hell has broken loose! Hopefully things have cooled down.

I can't imagine what it is like to be in either Vic-Luc's or Vlinden's shoes, to loose a loved one to Landmark. All I know is what it is like to be the loved one that was lost to Landmark. To come back and find out how much people we're worried about me because I wasn't acting right. People that I loved and cared about that we're either afraid to say something to me or were at a loss for words.

The person I feel the sadest for at this point is my ex/girl friend. She met me after I had been in Landmark for a while. She saw changes and prompted me to think and get out. But sadly she never knew the Zorro before Landmark. The happy go lucky guy that liked to have fun, party, and work hard. Now that I'm regaining my original self and growing based on my recovery efforts and unfortunate experience, I think she is confused and scared. We're like a Soap Opera or Mexican Novela.

Hell, one could make a prime time Univision / Fox TV show about us. Call it "Zorro Mi Amor!" for Latin America or "From Texas with Love!" for the Anglo world.

What's clear here for sure is for all three of us is, when love and feelings are involved, sparks can and will fly. I feel both of your losses and god for bid (it's my curse) I can see where both of you all are coming from. I've often said that sometimes things get taken the wrong way on line, because people aren't face to face looking at one another. I saw this a lot on an old forum I belong to. But on it there were emoticons to help get the point across. Can Rick Ross put up emoticons?

I wish both of you peace and reconciliation for your losses.