Pearl, Thanks for writing, I head you loud and clear. We have the same situation. I too, never felt WI was about money (I certainly have never been asked to give anything), and agree about the intelligent staff and the Wright's, these are bright people with many accomplishments. Whoever knows the "inner circle" can only say that, and we agree, they do good for many. This to me has become the confusion and the pull. More like a family and supportive, which we all need. iThis is been a road for me with my feelings all over the place. I know now my loved one is safe, and see for myself her growth. I hope all posting's good and bad will be attacked, just know, people are sorting this out. Thanks for the link Yelp...this is excatly where I'm at and it helped. Everyone interested (really) in WI should read this and get caught up.

meant to say, "hope posting's good and bad will NOT be attacked. Wish there was a spell check on this forum...lol.

The above post concerns me (citygirls 6/17/09 @ 5:45pm) I don't think we should be promoting WI here. Although I am not interested in going back and forth about it - I'm just saying it doesn't sound right to me for this thread.

I will just restate my experience. My family member, who I will call X, believes they were helped by WI. X has stated that they have left WI but appears to be still connected but in a different way and in what X believes is on their own terms. My family member is not a better person for having attended. In X's eyes she's got more confidence, is more focused and not doubting her decisions as much as before. As a family member I see X as a person who has always been smart, talented and extremely likable, they just never believed that and somehow wi helped them with that. However it appears that the way this has occurred is making X's family the true problem and now X is a bulldozer and know-it-all in conversations. I find X to be almost intolerable because she can't accept grey areas, other peoples struggles, doubts or fears. Everything is cut and dry, black and white. On top of it there is a child involved that is being subjected to this philosophy and the child has been traumatized by a previous situation. The parents response to the trauma is this hard line, "make a decision" crap that is probably going to hurt the child more and lead to a difficult life. I hope I am wrong. However people who have trauma will never benefit from this kind of "therapy" (very sarcastic use of this word). When one person attends a cult the entire family is affected. From the parents, to the siblings, to the children. I guess it would be okay if the cult member could just contain it all inside but they seem duly obligated to spread the word and then it becomes a horrible reality for a lot of those involved. I am so sad and heartbroken that my family member has chosen this path because I don't know if I'll ever connect with them again in our entire lives. When we did we were good friends. Now it is just strange and uncomfortable.

In response to Shimmer above, and Citygirl above that, and Christa above that...

... my own two cents bottom line is - if you are a person involved with WI or just recently introduced to it and have questions because something seems "off" - trust your instincts.

If, after reading the materials on Rick Ross (this forum), the FactNet forum, the Yelp reviews and whatever else is out there (Craigslist from time-to-time has people posting interesting things about WI) you still think on balance it is something you want to do then so be it. I know I wouldnt come to that conclusion, but become educated, dont give up your critical thinking skills at any point, make sure it is affordable and that if it begins to tear apart long-standing personal relationships that you re-evaluate what your alleged growth is worth to you.

Peace and good luck.

Shimmer, I agree with what you've said. I am forced to look at all sides, and have. When my relationship is broken, I will post and be in your shoes. I know what your feeling, believe me, it's not possible for me to post it now. I am still struggling to maintain a relationship, and hope I can accept (if need be) an adult's decision to continue in this path. Turning away from a lifestyle you don't believe is good for you, is leading to loss of family, I'm not ready for that (ever). I still struggle with the Wisconsin part of all this, and this has not come without questions...just have to do it my way. Please understand, I am with you on your loss, and trying for this not to be mine as well. Seeing good as well as bad is important for me. I won't post if this harms any of you. I can share more only if private......I wish you the best.

I went to a free weekend at the Wright Institute. They are a cult. They use known mind control techniques on the people who go there. They set it up so that if you did the exercises as told to get the "maximum benefit" out of the weekend, you would be sleep deprived, hypnotized, unable to think critically, guilt-ridden about past events in your life, an emotional wreck, and (as was true for more than a few participants) very near a nervous breakdown. We were admonished throughout the weekend with, "You know you're full of shit, don't you? Every one of you is completely full of shit." We were told to line up and shout as many hurtful, nasty things at each other as we could in order to give voice to our subconscious. People came out of that exercise looking like they had been through a war. We were constantly raising our hands, either as a symbol to silence the crowd or in answer to one of the thousands of questions asked of us throughout the weekend. We were told to clap periodically, in a rhythmic pattern--over and over, much longer than would necessary to rile up an audience. We all sat in tiny chairs which were crammed right up next to each other, so no one had room and there was practically nowhere to look except for straight at the stage where the leaders were.

I left before the weekend was over, and even then, I felt like I was in a trance, like I had been drugged, like someone had reached in and addled my brain.

When I left, there were many many people who were so excited to do more and who were no doubt ready to sign up and spend what nonexistent money they have (there were many unemployed people there). The place is scary.

When I was involved with Bob and Judith they never, ever did anything for free. My friend has informed me of these free programs that they now offer as a way of providing evidence of how much Bob and Judith have changed and "evolved" from what they were before. From what "theyareacult" writes, they actually sound like they have gotten much, much worse. Talk about creepy.

It sickens me to hear that there are many unemployed folks going to these programs. If there is one thing that you need when you get involved with Bob and Judith it is a lot of disposable income.

I believe in therapy and and learning new skills to help yourself become more comfortable in your own skin as you navigate through your own life. BUT----there comes a time when you need to stop the therapy, move on out into the real world and do your best to live your own life. Apparently, Bob and Judith just don't get this. For folks that are supposed to be about truth and integrity, I cannot for the life of me figure out how they can keep people so hooked that they encourage them to keep doing more and more "work" which gets them deeper and deeper into debt. It is totally irresponsible of them....reprehensible is more like it. It is not like Bob and Judith need the money.

I have tried talking to my friend about how I see all of this self-help work that she does as just as much of a "soft-addiction" as any of the others that Judith describes in her book but she won't listen. On top of that, it is not like I see her life as having changed all that much except in her pulling away from old friends and family.

She is truly a wonderful person and has always been very idealistic. I think that Bob and Judith have gotten her all caught up in how she can be part of changing the world. Goodness knows there is absolutley nothing wrong with that but why do you have to go so deeply in debt to be a part of it? Sometimes I think that they are genuine megalomaniacs and that they need as much counselling as the folks they are trying to help. Anyway you slice it, they just hold too much power and influence over others' lives and I see that as very dangerous.

Pearl, I totally agree. I don't know if the Wrights have drunk their own koolaid or if they are just crass manipulators, but what they are doing is wrong. The people there don't have the money to sink into the "program" and much of the weekend is dedicated to convincing them that they need to. They continually talk about how you need to stick with it and practice practice practice the skills they give you and stay near the people who have already done it and learn from them. All of this translates into giving them more money. The many "team leaders," who were people who were already doing the program, looked shell shocked themselves. They were even more sleep deprived than the audience members were, because we at least went home at night. It sounded like they were forced to stay up until the wee hours to do the planning for the next day. In any case, I wouldn't want to trade places with them.

A lot of companies use unsavory techniques to try to manipulate people into buying something. There are all kinds of techniques that car salesmen use when you negotiate with them on the price of a car. What this group does is more than sales manipulation. They are deliberately compromising people's bodies and deliberately messing with their minds so that their critical thinking skills with be compromised on a basic level. And the sad thing is that it doesn't work on the people who are in a reasonable place in their lives and who have a good support system around them, etc. It works on people who are vulnerable--people who are unemployed or in a bad relationship or just moved and are feeling lonely or out of sorts. Exploiting people when they are down is sick and wrong and any amount of good that someone gets out of the program doesn't make up for it.

I can't tellyou how many times my friend has told me that people don't really need as much sleep as they think that they do. For long stretches she would be going on 4 hours of sleep a night and it was some sort of badge of honor. To Theyareacult, it sounds like you have been invloved at WI recently...have you?

I was involved when Bob called his company "Human Effectiveness Inc." It seemed to me that there were a disproportionate number of yong adults from rather priveleged backgrounds. One thing that you were supposed to do to graduate from your group is to bring in your parents for a session to "get current" with them. Another way to stir up more crap from the past for you to "work" on and maybe, if Bob was lucky, drum up more clients for his buisiness.

Everybody has issues with thier parents...I don't care how well you were parented.. nobody does it perfectly. It seemed that when I or others in the group expressed anything like forgiveness for thier parents or the desire to just let it all be and live thier lives, we were never given any support for this stance. So much of it was about seeing all the flaws in how you were parented and then getting not just permission but encouragement to become really angry about it and then dumping it at your parents feet. I knew that I didn't want to play that game.

It's funny. I went through all of this more than 15 years ago and thinking about it still can rile me. I would not even have to think about any of this crap at all except for the fact that my friend is so deeply involved and unfortunately, I still let it drive me nuts. She has been like a sister to me for over 20 years and it is just so hard to disconnect and walk away. We try hard not to talk about her whole WI involvement but it is like the proverbial elephant in the living room. Slowly we are disengaging and I am still in mourning for the friend that she used to be.

Have any of you out there ever made a printout of this thread and shown it to your loved ones? I have thought a lot about doing it but I am afraid that it would make her angry and defensive. I would just like her to know that lots of other people besides me think that WI is a cult.

Wow, just wow, amazing contributions from theyareacult and pearl. The experiences & thoughts you have shared are soooo familiar & take me back a number of years to my own. Of course, so did the experiences from shimmer and wtt. I feel as if I know the people/person you are all describing-especially shimmer. That says the "formula" is consistent. I remember thinking: "how strange & really very, very insulting" the wi behavior & recruitment was-especially to family and friends. I remember trying to dismiss it a "phase" that would go away or maybe run its course to some sort of eventual "graduation." It didn't go away. Apparently, "graduation" is transition to unpaid labor force. It's laughably ridiculous to me that wi can hold themselves out as the "answer." They are "full of shit" as they say in their own seminars; wi is a giant "soft addiction.' bob & judy must have a good laugh that they are able sell this IRONIC "bag of magic beans."

The real tragedy in all this of course is the damage this nonsense does to family & friends. That damage is clearly very real as many have shared here.

"pearl," it would seem to be reasonable to share this thread with your friend. Hopefully, your friend has some critical thinking ability left. This stuff does get one "riled up."

Oh, and another thing that: "people don't really need as much sleep as they think they do." Heard that nonsense too. Come on, that's a dangerous trick!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2009 09:45PM by itsashame.