I think WTT is correct above in suspecting Citygirl is a shill for WI. However, if in fact City really is a concerned parent that now wants to believe WI is a legitimate source of "growth," well, then hopefully her daughter is safe and sound.

In either case, I think the dialogue has done the job-warn potential recruits.

WTT is very perceptive-it would have been a bizarre relationship of "getting vulnerable," "matching," blah, blah, blah. WI's are coached to "manipulate"-especially about recruitment. Almost like flipping a switch from normal conversation to goofy sales pitch. (On the other hand, if a relationship would have materialized, WI has a child-rearing seminar! Imagine that!)

So, recruits, stay away. Potential dates, forget it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2009 04:26AM by itsashame.

citygirl's actually an object lesson. Because of our private correspondence, I believe she is exactly who she says she is, a mother worried for her daughter.

Her postings here and elsewhere indicate she has fallen for WI, hook, line, and sinker. So she's turned into a shill, probably as a defense.

Her outcome could have been different if she'd actually using the resources this site offers, instead of dismissing them because appearing as a guest on Oprah's Dr. Oz constitutes an endorsement of someone's sterling character. (See Appeal to Authority in the index of logical fallacies [www.nizkor.org])

She's also not the first worried parent who's gone around to kick Wright's tires; the View to Post ratio of this thread tells me they almost certainly have people watching this thread. They were ready for her.

Here are my opinions of citygirl's situation, which I hope will edify others:

I suspect citygirl either did not attend or did not complete college. She has great respect for education, but she writes and thinks like someone who is uneducated. Lgats use your vulnerabilities against you; that's an obvious angle to work with her.

She is rightly proud of her daughter's educational accomplishments, but seems to believe that education confers benefits that, sadly, it does not. Academic achievement doesn't make anyone invulnerable to the lure of groups like this. There's a con for everyone.

She appears to be an internet noob, (free netiquette advice: don't lie on the message board and expect the person you lied about not to post the PMs, 'k? makes you look like a liar AND an idiot.) which means it took Wright's internet spies about 5 minutes to sweep the Web for all of her posts, figure out exactly who she is, and prepare for her. Predators are out there, people, and they're not just taking a seat across from Dateline's Chris Hansen.

WI almost certainly coached her daughter about what to say to her and how to act, as well.

People often stick their heads in the sand when facing reality would cost them some dearly held beliefs, force them to take action they're uncomfortable with, force them into a place where they don't know WHAT action they'd take, or place them into an uncomfortable psychological position.

It doesn't pay to be an ostrich, it costs; instead of dealing with a big, depressing, tough problem now, you'll deal with a huge, heart-breaking, intractable problem later.

Furthermore:

Attention must be paid. These lgat/cult leaders really, really are really, really good at what they do.

Manipulative, attractive, charismatic conning is a skill, and it's a skill that makes a lot of people a lot of money. You wouldn't go up against a great lawyer without getting legal training, don't go up against a con without thoroughly reviewing the resources on this website.

In addition to all the great articles and resources, I especially recommend the big Byron Katie thread; The Anticult and corboy break it all down for everyone, and there's tons of great posts from others. Katie's especially interesting because one of her angles is that she's NOT educated.

Read. Learn.

PS: Thanks for your comments, shimmer. I wasn't going to mess with this mess any more, but you're right; it's important to correct the cultic implants citygirl placed here with facts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2009 12:18PM by Christa.

I can tell you, I m NOT a shill, but what Christa said, "A concerned Mother" I have nothing to do with WI, (live in another state), and came here to learn what is going on. Maybe it's just too pure and simple for the complicated mind. I have my doubts, and trusted Christa by writing privately. She betrayed my trust, by printing my private email on this forum. I no longer can speak of the doubts, and telling what I find to be the truth. You did not help me, but pushed me closer to my daughter. I won't push her away, as you did me. I have been told by someone that was involved and knows her, (through this forum), she is a great girl, and in no danger.

I remain,
Concerned Mother
p.s. I have begged her to come home, she won't.

I could not possibly betray your trust, citygirl, because we do not have a relationship of trust. We do not have a relationship at all. I am a stranger who posts on a Web forum.

The time I spent crafting thoughtful responses to your imploratory PMs was a gift, and you have expressed your gratitude for that gift with vitriolic dishonesty and personal attack. The people you associate with in your personal life might permit you to get away with such behavior, or even encourage it, but I won't.

This forum and the reliable information it provides are very important to me personally. I hold Rick Ross in very high regard, and I greatly esteem many other forum members. I do feel I have a trust relationship with them.

I also have a bond of trust with the thousands who lurk this board. Many of them are in horrible situations, and they rely on honest info in these fora to escape, heal, and rebuild their lives.

You appear to have no genuine wish to help your daughter do any of those things. You seem to want to ask for info, attack people when they say what you don't want to hear, engage in irresponsible behavior driven by denial, and then publicly lie about it all, confident that the private truth will remain undiscovered.

As you have discovered, your confidence was misplaced. It is not possible to enlist my support in cowardly deception. You'll need to PM someone else for that.

You placed information on this board that I knew was false. Others questioned it. I had information that answered those questions, and I provided it. I'd do it again, in a heartbeat.

It's appalling you would dare hope the custom of keeping PMs private would permit you to get away with lying to everyone.

Stop and think about what you are doing, or better yet, just stop.

Please keep my name out of your postings...I don't want to have to answer to you, but, you make it impossible not too. Calling me a liar, and not educated isn't helping your cause, only hurting it. I have never called anyone a name and won't resort to that that, taking the high road, or turning one's cheek would be my way. I have had a business and was married to a very successful and intelligent man, and now run my own home business (what does that have to do with anything)? I know from your first private email to me, you have never been involved or been to anything WI has done. You told me that, you would be better off to speak of your own experiences with the cult you were in, and help others through your own experience, instead of speculating on my families experience. The only thing we have in common is, I also respect the moderator of this forum, and the work and information he is providing to those in need. This is my last answer to your nasty postings of me!! I wish you well, and help in finding the correct way to tell your story, without the personal attacks.

Everybody here let's just chill out a bit... this back-and-forth is not particularly helpful to furthering this thread.

Citygirl is allowed to come to her own conclusions and post the same on here and look, not to single anyone out here by name, but to one of the individuals who is pointing out her "lies" above, let's acknowledge that Ms. Citygirl has *slightly* (please read in the sarcasm here) more invested in this (concern for her daughter) than someone who has "gone on a few dates" with a WI person and has decided to move on. Let's recognize that the "objective" look one individual may have when evaluating WI in response to a few dates they went on might be significantly different from the process of working through what an adult daughter is involved with and going through. I'm not picking on either process or perspective or the conclusions of either of these, but surely we can acknowledge it's a bit easier situation to deal with being able to walk away from a few "well-planned" (albeit kooky, and "off") dates as opposed to an immediate family member's career, right?

I think anyone taking the time to post on this thread in particular, is sincere. Some may be more conflicted, some more militant and some may have longer processes than others. That's ok. We're on the same side here, we are sharing information as we know it. People can take the same shared information and come to different conclusions.

So what if Citygirl liked a particular book written by Judith Wright? Look, I didnt, I thought it was quite repetitive and tedious myself. Christa, I dont know if you read the book, or if WTT read the book either, but to posit some sort of conspiracy of lies based on the fact that she read a book and liked it? Let's give people the benefit of the doubt.

We're obviously all here for a reason - because of concern for someone we know at some level. Attacking each other for not coming to identical conclusions does not further the information put out there...

Peace...

SeventhVeil, your ill-informed defense of citygirl's comments puzzles me. What you wrote indicates either that you have not read the relevant posts or that you are unfamiliar with the issues we're discussing.

Far from being "not particularly helpful" the "back -and-forth" in this thread is a great example of the free speech and robust debate that are the foundation of democracy and the hallmark of an honest search for truth. I'm sorry you think otherwise.

No one's statements are exempt from critical examination and robust questioning. Someone who comes to this site and lies about what she says on other sites, or who makes statements on this webpage that completely contradict what she says in private, or, worse yet, provides info about a group that is demonstrably untrue, is going to have a rough time.

Lgats and cults thrive in environments where questioning and doubt are prohibited, and where even the most outlandish statements are uncritically accepted. Most of us here have had quite enough of that.

Also, please read my posts before you comment on them, and if I wrote something confusing, please ask me about it.

I do not posit any conspiracy of lies, I wrote nothing about citygirl's book reviews, and I don't understand why you say I did. Please clarify this for me.

citygirl, using fallacy to undermine my comments won't work, and it is fallacious to suggest that because I have not attended a WI event I am unqualified to comment.

It's like saying I can't comment on Beethoven because I've heard only the Berlin Philharmonic's performance, while you've attended the BSO's. It's nonsense. Whatever the lgat, the song --and the scam-- remains the same.

Of course, if anyone wants to reject my comments for that reason, or any other, they don't need my permission to do so.

Which brings me to a more general point. This is the internet. While it should go without saying that no one is stopping citygirl or anyone else from coming on this webpage to learn, make comments, or express doubts, this is not your living room, and we're not your friends or your enemies. We're just people with viewpoints.

Anything posted here is posted to the world, and we'll chew on it and chew it up to our heart's content. Or not. But once you make something public information, you cannot control what the public does with it. If you can't deal with that, don't post.

On a related note, citygirl, when I want your help with "the correct way to tell my story," whatever that is, I will definitely let you know.

Thx for the well wishes, though; I can always use those.

SeventhVeil, the issue here is not that people are coming to different conclusions. It's that some people appear to be unable to tolerate being questioned, forced to examine what they say, or confronted with contradictory evidence. They seem to just want unquestioning acceptance of their remarks

Well, anyone who's looking for that, an lgat or a cult would be a fine place to find it. But I think this thread is serving its purpose very well indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 08:28AM by Christa.

I have been reading this thread for the past 3 months or so. I sort of stumbled across it when I was looking for information on the internet about a $300.00 a plate fundraiser for the WI that I had heard about. Anyway, I was very, very happy to see this site because it validated so much of what I have been feeling and saying for over 10 years now. It is so good to know that there are others out there who also believe that the WI is a cult. I am not talking Jim Jones here but it is a cult.

Many years ago I did some work with Bob and Judith. I learned a lot about myself and grew more confident around expressing my feelings. The experience was positive in many ways. The group that I was in became like a family to me and I was emotionally invested in them and I thought, them in me. This is way too long of a story to tell here but let's just say that when I wanted to leave (after about a year and a half), they made me feel like I was giving up on myself and that I was running from something that I just did not want to look at. Actually, one of the biggest reasons that I left is because I could feel myself getting drawn into something that I knew would be harder and harder to get out of the longer that I stayed there. And I was getting worried about how much everything they offered was costing me.

Skip ahead 10 years and one of my dearest friends is starting to go on the pilgrimages. Initially, I am guardedly supportive as I know that she has some issues that she wants to work on (who doesn't?). What I try to impress upon her is to be careful about how deeply she gets involved with them and how very expensive this work can become. She reassures me that she has no desire to get too involved as her life is very full and she is "not coming from a place of emptiness."

Skip ahead another 5 years and I never see her anymore because she is in the WI experience up to her eyeballs and in debt up to her neck. I used to be furious at her but now I am just incredibly sad about the lost relationship. All her relationships now are with other WI disciples. I miss her, her family misses her and lots of other friends miss her too.

I am not sure what Bob and Judith's motives are. I used to think that it was all about the money but I am just not sure any more. What I do know is that they are extraordinarily bright, charasmatic people who are extremely seductive. They can make you feel "seen" and accepted for who you really are--like good parents should do but usulaly don't. That is such a hook to keep you close to them and yearning for their counsel. They never really let you go.

This has gotten way too long. I am worried for my friend and I feel sympathy for others whose loved ones have such close ties to WI. The best review that I have read about WI is on the "Yelp" site. I hope that some of you read it.

Hey for those interested check out the "yelp" reviews on the wright institute (search from the Chicago forum/page). The May 26 post most closely resembles my own misgivings about the organization.

As for Christa's message above - I guess my feeling was that basically everyone posting on this thread was speaking from a personal place about either experiences they had with the WI or of someone close to them in their life. Your posts seemed to be more of a hypothetical/theorhetical attack on "all LGATS bad" standpoint. From the standpoint of someone looking for WI-specific information the back-and-forth between 2 people with no real information to offer on the WI specifically seemed out-of-touch with what this thread was up to this point.

I am well aware of the nature of the internet and its tendency to become back-and-forth "flame wars" or he-said-she-said debates. Let's agree to disagree on whether such back-and-forth is productive.

Anyway, again, for those interested as to what goes on, check out the yelp. More updated "insider" information than that available here at the moment.

Is this the link you are referring to? I had trouble finding it so I thought I'd put the exact address so people can find it right away. I hope this doesn't violate any rules.

[www.yelp.com]