The Asch Conformity Experiment is an exercise in which a group are shown a line called a target line in one box and in an adjacent box three lines of different lengths.

The group are asked to say which of the three lines (A, B or C) is the same length as the target line.

The purpose is to measure how many participants will conform to the majority view, even if it is the wrong answer. Often there are plants who will deliberately give the wrong answer to influence the group (to measure the effect of this). Or for the group to influence an individual test participant.

It was shown that about a third of participants will go along with a majority answer even if it isn't actually what they see.

But more than that, apparently in some cases some peoples' perception will be influenced - i.e. they will visually perceived the wrong answer to be correct if it is what the group are saying.


[en.wikipedia.org]


I think there is a lot to understand here in how cults and LGATs are able to influence people.

It probably also explains why there aren't more people who challenge what is being said and done right there in the seminar - even if it's offensive or disagreeable to them.

There are probably both those who are going along with the herd and those who have actually convinced themselves of the benefits of the seminar. No doubt these will be the ones most likely to sign up for advanced and other courses where I would assume the group influence will be magnified.

Any thoughts from LF or other LGAT veterans?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2019 11:19PM by StopLGATs.

I know it is often said that people with higher IQs are actually more susceptible to cults, while those with mental health problems or learning difficulties are almost impossible to recruit.

It would be interesting to know how the ACE would differ if for example ability factors like IQ, EQ (emotional intelligence), autism spectrum, etc variables were adjusted and measured.

I really like your question regarding ACE, IQ, mental health issues, autism spectrum, and CULT recruitment. I will look into whether any work has been done in this area.

While not an LF, or LEC survivor, I have been exposed to plenty of these tactics in the context of 'coaching' conferences, which honestly go on for days and days, and incorporate some elements of LGAT.

I would assess myself as high IQ, but probably slightly on the spectrum -- and, I think the latter condition has been 'protective'.

Here is what I have experienced: the use of repetition to 'normalize' terms and constructs that are never fully explained. I sat at one conference and touched a led pencil to paper every time I heard the term, "coaching culture" used. 27 times in a half-day session!!!

Recognizing that the audience was comprised of many English as a second language folks, I raised my hand and asked for a clear explication of the term, "coaching culture". You could hear a pin drop.

I would strongly suggest that people apply this technique to words like: "ontological", "holistic", "integral", "transformational" as well.

BE THE DUMB KID IN THE CLASS!!!

Bakkagirl

Interesting you mention coaching conferences.

There is an organisation that started in the UK called Common Purpose which is about leadership development.

There was an attempt to expose the organisation about 10 years ago however those behind this turned out to be promoting their own far-right, anti-EU political agenda and built their attacks on the organisation into that. They also jumped on the conspiracy theory bandwagon (sharing platforms with the likes of 9/11 "truth", Alex Jones and David Icke, the guy who sees illuminati lizard people everywhere and has his own following of kool aid drinkers) and so the credibility of the message sunk with that of the messenger. So much so that some people have branded them shills.

Common Purpose has been very active in running courses for senior officials and "future leaders" in government departments, city councils, police, NGOs, etc and perhaps it could be described as useful had we seen any marked improvement in leadership in this sector over the 25-30 years it has been operating. It seems well connected (though obscure in origin) and it's founders had connections right at the heart of the UK establishment.

They are also vague in the details of what their courses entail and I wonder if there are not some similarities/parallels with the Vanto Group.


You can see at [commonpurpose.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2019 12:41AM by StopLGATs.

This is very interesting, thank you for the link.

Of late, I have come to view the term, "X + leadership", or "leadership + X" as potentially coded language. How is that for paranoia!?!

There is, to be sure, a field called Leadership Studies, and some really good work has been done, but this is a complex topic, and especially complex when one discusses or trains 'it' across borders.

Can you remember the name of the group, the "right-wing", "anti-EU", "TROOFER", "Alex Jones-appearing", "resonating with David Icke", lizard trackers?

I ask because in my own research, I have found that even broken clocks are right twice a day, and research is research...regardless of the source, IMHO.

Bakkagirl

Also, and in re your Kool Aid reference,

I spent my weekend reviewing many, many, many accounts of that Kool Aid-drinking event, and it sure seems like not more than a few of the victims actually "drank the Kool Aid". I mean there are about 50 books published on Jonestown, and not more than a few cleave to the official story, which, frankly, makes not a lot of sense.

I am thinking that one could say that this event, which went on and on it the Bay Area in the form of assassinations of witnesses to this or that, requires a nuanced interpretation.

Yep, Jones sure had a gift of the gab, and could influence people, including politicians, BUT, a whole lot of other shadowy players involved, it would seem.

Bakkagirl

You can find some useful info on this site, which as I say has nosedived in credibility over the years. Though it does point to an organisation that found a clever way, along LGAT lines, to siphon off money from many government organisations and NGOs with overpriced leadership training.

[www.cpexposed.com]


And to lighten the mood here's a good read about the Lizard Loon - who declared himself to be the son of God (no shit!) on live television. Ironically probably would be in good company with Erhard and the Scientologists.

[rationalwiki.org]

Thanks for the link...very interesting.

I would simply offer that I don't see money as being the primary driver for at least some of the LGAT's; or, to be more specific, money may be the driver for lower-echelon members but the higher-ups are up to something else entirely.

On Icke, I had seen his televised professions of 'god-hood', and consider him a broken clock who has, however, been prescient in his statements about pedophilic pop personalities and members of the British establishment.

The Jimmy Savile stuff is quite 'something', you have to admit, as is the current Epstein/Prince Andrew and half of the world's elite...well, is 'scandal' even an adequate descriptor?

And, germane, to our current research, which includes 'I think', the infiltration of academic and corporate bodies by unsavory characters and under the guise of human development projects, (or philanthropic 'research grants) we have to consider Epstein as a player in that he was the director of at least 'one' foundation that endowed and managed 'Leadership Development' programs, and he seems to have pretty effectively infiltrated Harvard Law School and Harvard social science departments, MIT's Media Lab, the Los Alamos Lab, and, there seems to have been significant interaction with the Gates' Foundation and its various global endeavors.

Note, Erhard also targetted elite academics and institutions, and Raniere had certain pretentions in this area as well.

Sometimes "truth is stranger..." so, I keep an open mind about the broken clocks and can allow that they may hold certain pieces to certain puzzles. For instance, I have found that the LaRouche organization's early 'research' findings regarding a certain West Coast New Age Movement incubator of 'Humanistic/Transpersonal' psychological solutions align pretty well with my personal and professional experience, and what has come out in FOIA releases.

Just saying we need a more nuanced view of cultic 'phenomenon' than what is provided by mainstream sources, e.g. the 2018 Time magazine anniversary review of Jonestown, which focuses on first responders and PTSD, and neglects to mention what allegedly triggered the event, i.e. the visit of Congressman Leo J. Ryan -- dogged investigator of CIA human experiment abuses.

Bakkagirl