Because this phrase is so often used in anti-cult circles, and we ALL know its origin, I took a dive back into the particulars of the Jonestown incident.

Point of fact, a Guyanese coroner, and a Navy Seal who interceded shortly after the Kool-Aid was drunk stated that they observed that many of the bodies had gunshot wounds, longbow wounds, bolt gun wounds, or injection marks below a shoulder. This does not suggest that the faithful drank the Kool-Aid; rather that they were exterminated as they ran for their lives. Who did this? Who suicided Jones, who had a gunshot wound to the head, but no gun near the body? How come only seven autopsies, and performed a week after the event?

As for Jones and his vaunted charisma, it looks like a certain percentage of his followers (principally, children, young adults of certain ethnicities) had arrived at Jonestown compliments of various child 'protection', and juvenile court functionaries, or prison authorities...and, this is peculiar because Jones did not possess the credentials necessary to care for such people.

Another oddity is that many members of Jonestown had allegedly given up their U.S. citizenship, yet they continued to receive, like clock-work, social security and other benefits.

It gets stranger, too, in so far as the Right Reverand Jones was best buddies with so many Democrat mucky-mucks. A partial list includes Mervyn Dymally (who escorted Jones to Guyana and used his political clout to seal the deal); George Moscone (who gave Jones a position on the S.F. Housing Board); Harvey Milk (who wrote glowing recommendations); Willie Brown; Walter Mondale, and the Carter's who all promoted him.

And, this does not include the luminaries who joined his 'management team', the Ph.D's, MD's, JD's, all quite illustrious.

This leads one to wonder if Jones went nuts after he became 'King of the Jungle', or was he always that way.

Profiles of Jones kinda indicate the later...in so far as he was making like a dictator at his Ukiah, CA operation, and was not beyond performing a demonstration of psychic surgery for anyone who was interested. He was also a prolific consumer of prescription anything.

So, how come all of these righteous and responsible citizens drank the Kool-Aid, and how come so many desperate pleas for help that were coming out of Jonestown were ignored for so long? And, how come, attorneys, Mark Lane, and Charles Gary told the world Jonestown was a utopian paradise when it was clearly a PIT OF HELL?

How come, too, when the place was inspected after the Kool-Aid drinking, there was found on-site enough pharmaceuticals to treat a population ten times the size?

How come the wrongful death action filed by the Ryan family, and families of the dead, and which alleged the presence of intelligence personnel during the event was dismissed on a technicality?

Just sayin' the official story is kinda funky, and probably needs a much deeper review.

Just sayin' when the media -- and with regard to a character like Keith Raniere -- says, "Look here! Look here!", inquiring minds ought to be looking at ancillary characters, and their activities.

Kinda think it is not as easy to be a guru, svengali, cult leader as the popular wisdom has it. Seems to require quite a lot of cash, the adulation/endorsement of important people who should know better, and a holy host of regulatory bodies, police, court systems just playing blind, deaf and dumb.

Bakkagirl

Well, since nobody has responded to "Drinking the Kool-Aid", I will continue:

I was living in S.F. when Jonestown transpired, and the murders of George Moscone and Harvey Milk, eight days later.

Residents knew that the Dems and Jim Jones had got on like a house on fire for many years. Residents also wondered at the possible linkages between one tragedy and the next. I mean, common sense, right?

In a 'normal' world, the Dems would have engaged in some SERIOUS self-reflection as to their role in Jonestown, and, would certainly have supported a full forensic investigation. Anything, everything but that occurred.

I won't call Jones a 'patsy' in all of this, but, maybe a useful narcissist, and probably an operative.

And, who can forget the Dan White trial and the 'Twinky defense', which stunk to highest heaven? People who encountered White right after the murders reported that he seemed to have had no idea what he had done, and responded to the news as any horrified citizen would do. The 'City' was thought to be crawling with Jonestown assassins, yet the City Hall murders were handily ascribed to a nerdy, allegedly disgruntled city councilman (x). And, who emerges at the BIG HERO of the day... politician so corrupt her own daughter has outed her chicanery.

My point is that Jonestown is/was not as advertised and to build an anti-cult paradigm around it, and its 'actor's', does no one a service.

Bakkagirl

Germane to the Kool-Aid narrative is this (I think):

[www.thedailybeast.com]

5,000 cults active in the U.S., big ones, little ones, mildly destructive ones, outrageously pernicious ones.

Why the incessant focus on Jonestown, Waco, Unification Church, LaRouche (all of a 'period') and the new poster boy, Raniere?

Why are these organizations singled out, while the global cult, Landmark Education/Worldwide, and ALL of its iterations, is never mentioned? Why do anti-cult pundits and the media focus on the Trump rallies, while ignoring 25,000 people throwing up a Roman salute at Tony Robbins' event? How come Donald Trump's personality defects are not likened to the malignant narcissism of Werner Erhard, who referred to himself as "the source", and required his followers to do same.

Which brings me to topic of "fakeness"...how come the fake research, fake claims that support the entire LGAT industry are so rarely identified as "fake"?

And, as always, what about the LDS? Why, just the other day I had an LDS friend telling me that the PTSD LDS missionaries so frequently develop was a sign of their intense committment to their faith, "It's a really wonderful experience for them!" Where is Warren Jeffs in the pantheon of malignant narcissists?

I would DEEPLY appreciate it if someone/anyone can explain to what Jonestown/Waco (complex events, w/MANY actors, enablers, and procedural f'up's) have to do with Donald Trump's personality deficits, and communication style? Why resort to a false equivalence fallacy when there currently exists such an abundance of malignantly narcissistic NLP purveyors to choose from?

Bakkagirl

I found this fascinating. It was posted on another thread:

[pairadocks.blogspot.com]

And this link was within it, describing the levels of cult indoctrination, and the power structure!:

[pairadocks.blogspot.com]

A brief excerpt:

"The Seekers are just looking for something to make their lives worthwhile.

The Samplers are looking for a freeway to "The Answer."

The New Recruits are looking for a drill sergeant.

The Committed are looking for rank & recognition.

The Wonderbound are willing to submit & rationalize.

The Lab Rats are willing to see how much they can tolerate.

The Gluttons for Punishment are masochists.

The Willful Slaves are desperate to hang on to their suppose(d) "empowerment."

The Cynics are sell-outs to what they know is a scam... but don't care.

And the Sociopaths are the criminals running it.

(And, believe me, I am quite aware that some of you who just read this believe yourselves to be Sai Babas, Muktenandas, Sri Chimnoys, Mahesh Yogis, Oral Roberts, Jim Bakkers, Jerry Falwells, Louis Farrakahns, L. Ron Hubbards, Jack "Werner Erhard" Rosenbergs, John-Rogers, Richard Devos's, Mark Hughes's and the sort in training. And smart enough to read this stuff and figure out how to Get Rich Quick. But most of you aren't and will hit the wall hard in some fashion because toothy and troublesome litigation attorneys are really onto these psychological ponzi schemes now and suing them like mad on behalf of rich old ladies who can pour money into it to save their errant children... as well as in the form of "class actions." And if they (and the nasty, morally self-righteous news media) don't get you, the Darcy LaPiers's and Marla Maples's of the world will. Worse yet -- for anyone trying to break into the "field," now -- the established cults are out there torpedoing the new stuff right and left. Often quite viciously. The elevator is getting full.)"


I love that paragraph at the end! I would say that I sort of got to level 5, and quit when they pushed me to level 6, ("Lab Rat," and without my consent).

My recruiter seemed to have gotten to level 8. This didn't happen until she did the ILP. Stay the hell out of that program, people!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 03:37AM by kdag.

I find these two paragraphs especially alarming. If they might once have seemed theoretical, I know that they are real, because I saw this exact process in a former friend, (my recruiter), during her participation in the ILP.


(From the same link as before):

[pairadocks.blogspot.com]

" 7) The Gluttons for Punishment. If the level six member is not only dedicated and uncomplaining, but willing to imitate his rewarding abusers (who are actually more codependent to those above them that he or she is to the level seven member), he may be brought into the first level of rationalized abusiveness and conditioning, in-struct-ion, programming, manipulation, socialization, and normalization thereof. The member is now a (relatively) trusted "fellow" on the inner elite by virtue of demonstrating his or her willingness to intimidate, denigrate, derogate, insult, pick on, persecute, scapegoat, bully and otherwise abuse those on level six to "get the job done." By this time, most of those who were New Recruits, Committed and Wonderbound have either a) slipped away, b) burned out and suddenly bolted, c) become severely codependent, masochistic, compulsive and robotic, or d) have begun to "flip" in borderline organization towards occasional "antisocial," "sociopathic" and even "sadistic" trait presentations.

8) The Willful Slaves. (A.k.a. "victim" at the bottom corner of the Karpman Drama Triangles with the few above them.) Having proven his or her commitment to the cult's (and guru's) still "honorable" and rationalized objectives, the level eight member may be sufficiently conditioned, programmed, socialized and normalized to the get-the-job-done routine and rewarding & reinforcing enjoyment of being "powerful" that he or she has become an agent of his master who will do pretty much whatever is asked, even if it involves vicious behavior toward "friends" who may have been peers at lower levels. Supporting evidence is provided by no less than Stanley Milgram: "An individual is in an agentic state when he accepts total control by a person holding a higher status. He no longer considers himself responsible for his actions. He sees himself as a simple instrument carrying out the wills of others." "

And this is why we can no longer trust "friends" or even family members who have been sucked into these LGATs. That person is gone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 03:59AM by kdag.

"And the Sociopaths are the criminals running it."

I would amend "it" to "them".

Bakkagirl