I felt emotional damage by LEK, too. Nightmares for several month, inefficiency at work ... I just can't believe that LEK people think every criticism against themselves can only be done by RR in disguise or by people that haven't done their programs. I just can't believe it :-) .

Many people in this forum said that they are happy that such a forum exists. I mean, everybody else on this planet is sometimes subject to criticism ... I personally know more than five people very well that have participated in their programs and are more than unhappy. So what should they do if they feel ripped off or even damaged.

I told a leader by e-mail, and I did not get a response at all. Only the facts, that I feel hurt. Not hateful or agressive ...

Taking part in a LEK leaderhsip program is wasting a lot of money, wasting a lot of free time and being ripped off and not been taken care of at all. LEK leaders are very friendly with new (potential) participants, but yell at the volunteers and don't care how they feel. I took part in a leadership program for my personal development. Again, I just could not believe it what I saw and what I have paid money for. Only arrogance on the other side ...

Nightmares:
So far, I wrote a few lunatic posts in this forum. Since I am not from an English-speaking country, it is sometimes difficult to express exactly what I have experienced and what I feel about LEK.

This week I visited my doctor who is also a specialist of internal medicine and told him about my nightmares and that there is hardly any night I sleep fully since November 05 (when I left LEK) and that I urgently need help. Surprisingly, he did not start asking me about any organic problems and so forth given that he is an internist, but said that there MUST BE a reason, and asked me about any experience I recently have had that could be waking me up every night. No question what popped into my mind: Some scary, strange and agressive behaviour and speaking of LEK leaders just turning around anything I said and putting me down. No break-up of a relationship, nor illness in the family or work-related problems, but LEK speak made me sick.

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ClausDIa
So far, I wrote a few lunatic posts in this forum. Since I am not from an English-speaking country, it is sometimes difficult to express exactly what I have experienced and what I feel about LEK.

Actually ClausDIa, I have enjoyed reading your posts, and found them interesting. As you have seen LEC as a participant, I appreciate what you have shared so those of us who haven't gone through it can understand it better. I found your posts in this thread [board.culteducation.com] on the "Promise of Philosophy and the Landmark Forum" to be intriguing. If you want to expand on those in that thread, I would appreciate hearing what you have to say.

I find you are expressing yourself pretty well. Glad to have you here. Please continue to post as you are able. Thanks!

-lightwolf

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ClausDIa
Nightmares:
So far, I wrote a few lunatic posts in this forum. Since I am not from an English-speaking country, it is sometimes difficult to express exactly what I have experienced and what I feel about LEK.

This week I visited my doctor who is also a specialist of internal medicine and told him about my nightmares and that there is hardly any night I sleep fully since November 05 (when I left LEK) and that I urgently need help. Surprisingly, he did not start asking me about any organic problems and so forth given that he is an internist, but said that there MUST BE a reason, and asked me about any experience I recently have had that could be waking me up every night. No question what popped into my mind: Some scary, strange and agressive behaviour and speaking of LEK leaders just turning around anything I said and putting me down. No break-up of a relationship, nor illness in the family or work-related problems, but LEK speak made me sick.

Claudia,

Tell me if I'm wrong. What makes you sick is to be told that you are making yourself sick, not Landmark, right? This is a catch phrase they use, and it's part of their destabilizing rethoric. The best thing is just to let go and stop trying to find the meaning of their irrational logic (or lack of). They deliberately use conflicting logic to screw peoples mind, and any effort to use your "reason" to make sense of it makes you feel sick and frustrated. And that's what makes them happy. Just let go.

hi lightwolf, yes, I would like to discuss LE methods, I am very much interested what is behind it and how suspected results can be achieved by other methods. But I am only a natural scientist not a philosopher. You are right I still need some time for full recovery.

hi midonov, thank you for your compassion, I'm trying to forget and to let go.

What makes me really sick is that otherwise intelligent, nice and loving people (LE leaders) behave like "boot-camp" instructors if it comes to guest registrations. Demanding incredible "rules", and that they are really
convinced doing the right thing because LE will save the world. They don't
care how many volunteers, they leave depressed and shattered. So I
developed a personal relationship with some LE leaders, and they have destroyed my trust. This is what hurts.

You might ask, well why did you continue then: because I just could not
believe it, because participating in a course is different from volunteering
in leadership programs. Subtly, their attitude is changing, and in the
end you are just feeling like a slave.

Yesterday I ended the last relationship with an LE participants, despite loving her, even if it was hard for me, since I felt increasingly more pain, since she just ignored that I am more than beyond my personal limits and continued to speak about LE. Having no sleep is not my fault and very delimiting, it is not something I am making up. She continued to suggest that it is my fault how I experienced LE, oK. over now ...

I will take a longer time out until I have handled the emotional stress

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ClausDIa
She continued to suggest that it is my fault how I experienced LE . . . .

Excellent nugget of truth about how they twist things around. My Lekkie friend often tried to put me in this position whenever I objected to any of her behavior. Sad.

Take your time ClausDIa. I know you're not a philosopher -- I'm not expecting that. Just your own thoughts and insights. You don't need a title to have validity. You make a great contribution here.

My empathies to you as you heal from the hurt of broken trust. Keep taking good care of yourself. We'll look for you later.

:)

-lightwolf

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ClausDIa
hi lightwolf, yes, I would like to discuss LE methods, I am very much interested what is behind it and how suspected results can be achieved by other methods. But I am only a natural scientist not a philosopher. You are right I still need some time for full recovery.

hi midonov, thank you for your compassion, I'm trying to forget and to let go.

What makes me really sick is that otherwise intelligent, nice and loving people (LE leaders) behave like "boot-camp" instructors if it comes to guest registrations. Demanding incredible "rules", and that they are really
convinced doing the right thing because LE will save the world. They don't
care how many volunteers, they leave depressed and shattered. So I
developed a personal relationship with some LE leaders, and they have destroyed my trust. This is what hurts.

You might ask, well why did you continue then: because I just could not
believe it, because participating in a course is different from volunteering
in leadership programs. Subtly, their attitude is changing, and in the
end you are just feeling like a slave.

Yesterday I ended the last relationship with an LE participants, despite loving her, even if it was hard for me, since I felt increasingly more pain, since she just ignored that I am more than beyond my personal limits and continued to speak about LE. Having no sleep is not my fault and very delimiting, it is not something I am making up. She continued to suggest that it is my fault how I experienced LE, oK. over now ...

I will take a longer time out until I have handled the emotional stress

I've been through the same emotional stress you are going through. Those sharks at Landmark use their rethoric to put you in a state of regression where your feel helpless and thus succeptible to become dependant on the group. About that woman you love, you have to realize that Landmark is more important to her than you are (OUCH!!!). Under these conditions, your choice is clear. You cannot change her since she is a true believer in the new doctrine.

Wilfred Bion has studied psychology of groups in details. It is said about group psychology that:

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"The essential aim … is to attain security through and have its members protected by one individual. It assumes that this is why the group has met. The members act as if they know nothing, as if they are inadequate and immature creatures. Their behavior implies that the leader, by contrast, is omnipotent and omniscient"

"Leaders draw a power from their followers’ wish for an ideal parent, a wish that is latent in all adults no matter what kind of parent they had. Although cult leaders may be charismatic, they need not be as long as they are believed by the group members to possess superior powers and secrets. Cult leaders are authoritarian, encouraging dependence and discouraging autonomy. Obedience and loyalty are rewarded, and critical thinking is punished. Furthermore, to enhance dependency on the leader, pair bonding is discouraged. The leader must come first; family and lovers come last. "

Landmark does everything to make you feel like an inadequate and immature creature (regression) so that you become dependant on the group. It's very hard to deprogram someone who has fallen into this trap. Leader(s) comes first, family and lovers last!

Yes. This is the crux and the illogical core at the Landmark "philosophy." That is, that you, yourself, solely and alone are "responsible" for the way you feel in ANY situation, how you react, how you perceive, understand, and interpret, and what any particular event means to you. There is an old thread on Linda Chase's site, Rants & Raves, in which Landmarkers have argued that "rape is just bodies rubbing together" and, in LandmarkLand, everything else is just so much "interpretation." Theirs is a philosophy that allows no victims, so if you imagine yourself to have been harmed, you are lower than low in their eyes because you are admitting powerlessness or some other such garbage. Since it is (supposedly) your "choice" to "care or not care," nothing bad should affect you if you "choose" to "not care."

Sad, really sad. And stupid that people would believe this nonsense. I imagine they must be so terrified of their own vulnerability they cling to this illusion or delusion of "power."


Ellen

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elena
Sad, really sad. And stupid that people would believe this nonsense.

I found this about the "Big Lie" theory. I think it aplies to Landmark's set of (weird) beliefs:

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Big Lie Theory
The oft-cited "Big Lie Theory" originated with Adolf Hitler's 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf. In that book Hitler wrote that people came to believe that Germany lost World War I in the field due to a propaganda technique used by Jews who were influential in the German press. This technique, he believed, consisted of telling a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe anyone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously". The first documented use of the phrase "big lie" is in the corresponding passage: "in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility" (Source: Wikipedia)

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Big Lie Theory
The oft-cited "Big Lie Theory" originated with Adolf Hitler's 1925 autobiography Mein Kampf.

The forum leader is telling over and over the same few principles. This is how easy it is, you just have to apply that to achieve anything you want in your life.
AND the most important rule: Your transformation will happen only if you tell other people about it ( ... which means invite them for guest events).
Next step: Your guest did not show up, so something about your "being" is wrong ....

I remember that one of the first conversations is about giving up your critcism, because by just critizising sth. you haven't achieved anything ...

Scary that people who believe all this are rather intelligent and educated people ...

Mind-opening