Quote
orangeperuviscacha
Me, "So what's this thing all about?"
Lekkie, "I am having great experiences, and that's all that matters! (gush!)"
Me, "Is that a fact?!"

Lekkie: "No! Don't you Get It, it's my experience. I have my experience and you have yours. (hypnotic I'm-enlightened-and-you're-not grin) :roll: "

I've actually had this conversation, and paraphrasing, got that reply. To you and me orangeperuviscacha, your point would be made, but not to them. I see them with a very gnostic view of the world -- the knowledge of experience, and my observation is that they view it as far superior to scientific or "objective" knowledge. I wonder if the super true believers even acknowledge the existence of fact.

Quote
elena
Here are all these people thinking they've disabused themselves of biases, perceptual limitations, skewed ways of thinking, emotional baggage - achieved the Landmark equivlent of "Clear" - all the while they've actually traded in their own set for a new, more horrific, terribly distorted, dumbed-down, and contrived set concocted by that sleazo, Werner Erhard.


Sad.

Well said. You brought to mind a thought I've had that I didn't put in the original post: what they see as giant leaps forward for themselves are really lapses into regression. Linguistic regression, emotional/ psychological regression (the "infantile omnipotence" referred to at different places on this board), and for some, spiritual regression. But hey, I'm transformed!

I agree Ellen, it is truly sad.


-lightwolf

Quote
lightwolf
what they see as giant leaps forward for themselves are really lapses into regression. Linguistic regression, emotional/ psychological regression (the "infantile omnipotence" referred to at different places on this board), and for some, spiritual regression. But hey, I'm transformed!

When you've been cognitively disabled and procured the tools to play mind games (i.e. to LIE to yourself), it's difficult to tell the difference between leaps forward and regression. After all, nothing is anything and everything is nothing. Hard to tell what's UP and what's DOWN, because your world & brain have been scrambled.

I reflected recently on what I thought was CONFIDENCE while I was under the lgat spell and I realized it was ARROGANCE. I see all the described symptoms in my sister. The patronizing "I'm enlightened, you're not" smirk.

Hey, you ARE transformed in an lgat, just not how you THINK! Then again, after an lgat it's damn hard to think straight, muchless at all. You are relieved of the trouble of thinking for yourself, as you are given all the answers (to questions you might never have asked) in simple, pat slogans, and that is your blueprint for living. Nevermind that it doesn't work. Just go back for more "training".

Quote
skeptic
Hey, you ARE transformed in an lgat, just not how you THINK! Then again, after an lgat it's damn hard to think straight, muchless at all. You are relieved of the trouble of thinking for yourself, as you are given all the answers (to questions you might never have asked) in simple, pat slogans, and that is your blueprint for living. Nevermind that it doesn't work.

What a perfectly appropriate comment for this thread. What you are describing is truly Outrageous (to have done to you), and a Betrayal of the trust you put in them.

I always appreciate your commentary skeptic, coming from someone who has gone through it, saw the betrayal, and is expanding back into themself again. Your reflections on confidence v. arrogance certainly hit home. Good post!

-lightwolf

Quote
skeptic
I reflected recently on what I thought was CONFIDENCE while I was under the lgat spell and I realized it was ARROGANCE. I see all the described symptoms in my sister. The patronizing "I'm enlightened, you're not" smirk.

Wow. That's incredibly well-put. There was always something about my friend that bothered me so much that I really hated just being around her, even if she wasn't spouting off jargon. You just really hit the nail on the head with that observation. Amazing. Thank you.

the confidence being arrogance (and dogmatic) is a true observation. The last few posts here, point out very similar character traits that exist in my family members (especially my brother) who are under the spell of a personality cult.
These observations are helpful for what i will be going through shortly in addressing the issue.

You have to read the story in this issue of Rolling Stone (the pop culture magazine):

[www.rollingstone.com]


You might be amazed at how much RonThink(tm) was patterned onto WernerThink(tm) was patterned onto LECthink(tm) !

Pretty much all that LEC is missing is the E-meters and the Xenu Space Opera and the hot abnormal celeb promo items like TomKat... at least Travolta has the sense to fly his planes and keep his mouth shut...

According to El Ronno the UberTheta about the proper attitude to comport oneself with vis a vis the sacred mission of erf salvation:

"The whole agonized future of this planet, every man, woman and child on it, and your own destiny for the next endless trillions of years depend on what you do here and now with and in Scientology. This is a deadly serious activity."

Hows THAT for a man sized cow chip of higher purpose perched on your shoulder ?

And then you get THERE, the beating heart of IT ! How WOW !

"You've jumped through all these hoops just to get to it, and then you open that packet, and the first thing you think is, 'Come on,'" she says. "You're surrounded by all these people who're going, 'Wow, isn't it amazing, just getting the data? I can tell it's really changed you.' After a while, enough people say it and you're like, 'Wow. You know, I really feel it.'"

Does this sound familiar to anyone ??????

And this astounding revelation.....

"Rurik starts his lecture with the claim that the mind really isn't in the brain. "Close your eyes and think of a picture of a cat," he tells me. I do. "Now, open your eyes and point to where you saw that picture."

I point to my eyes.

Rurik grins. "See? When you're asked to use your mind, you don't point to the brain."

The brain, Rurik says, has absolutely no bearing on our thoughts or feelings. Nor, he adds, does the mind -- its chief function is to serve as a memory bank ....."

Unnnnfreakingbelievable.....

Thanks for the link. Another instance where only the top echelon of the group knows what the group is really all about. Although, fortunately word has been leaked out. However I'll bet those newbies are highly discouraged from getting the information.....they aren't READY for the truth. I had no idea what Scientology was REALLY about.
Another "Outrageous Betrayal."
Although this is not the Scientology Forum, the article is very pertinent in that it outlines how intelligent people can get sucked into these groups. Also it is VERY clear where Jack/Werner got his "inspiration" for est/Landmark.

Quote
looking for help
Although this is not the Scientology Forum, the article is very pertinent in that it outlines how intelligent people can get sucked into these groups. Also it is VERY clear where Jack/Werner got his "inspiration" for est/Landmark.

According to an old-timer a few years ago on "Rants & Raves," Werner Erhard himself admitted est was "scientology without the woo-woo." In the early days he used an E-Meter and had his staff submit to somthing similar to "auditing." No doubt he liked the control he thought it gave him over people's secret thoughts. (ref. Pressman)


Ellen

oh, the authorized biography, [i:aedd18e2ac]Werner Erhard: The Transformation of a Man[/i:aedd18e2ac], quotes Erhard as singling out the church for praise.

as I have mentioned elsewhere online and perhaps even on this messageboard, my sister quoted to me, "what's true is what is true for you", a statement that L. Ron Hubbard made. she hadn't taken any LEC courses until 2004. that indicates that, even as late, as 2004 that the Scientology influence remains.

I could detail some of the similarities between the church and est, though I don't really feel up for it right now.

meanwhile, as the the [i:aedd18e2ac]Rolling Stone[/i:aedd18e2ac] photo shows, the Church of Scientology has taken over Castle Gormenghast.

back to the original topic of discussion, I have had it said by one grad that (paraphrasing) "comparing est to Landmark is like comparing a Model T to a sports car" so you can ready yourself for the rejoinder.

also for the "LEC doesn't have anything to do with Werner Erhard".