I feel like I keep noticing LGAT ideology in everyday life and it is becoming unbearable. People are quick to criticize self-help cults like Landmaark and Scientology for their deceptive recruitment tactics and overt coercion but they will then turn around and tout their ideology - the idea that you are responsible for whatever happens, that victimhood doesn’t exist, that you can think your way out of distress/disability/mental illness and that you need to take personal responsibility for your health. The worst part of the LGAT to me wasn’t its recruitment tactics but this very ideology. As a disabled person it is so incredibly harmful to be told that if I “just do _____” (including medical treatment), then I will be cured. I don’t know how to get away from this. Does anyone else struggle with this ideology?

I find this 'ideology' abhorrent and dishonest in the extreme, and especially coming from individuals who are usually suckering off other people.

Same here. But how do you deal with it? How do you deal with the fact that like 90% of the general public espouses some amount of this ideology?

I don't live in the U.S. (assume you do), but have seen this programming, at distance, and in my own industry, unfortunately, not at distance.

I don't have an answer, though I would say avoidance is a good start.

I am wondering if you could describe what you experience of this in your daily life, e.g. at work, socially, in the media. How does it manifest? What does it feel like?

Could you tell me more about how you see it in your industry?

I mainly see it at work and in my field. I work at a mental health web magazine and do research in the field of mental health law and policy, and it seems like everyone has their own version of, “If you just do X then all your suffering would go away, but you’re not doing X well enough so you’re still suffering.” X could be meditation, mindfulness, yoga, exercise, medication, therapy, “seeking help,” “taking care of your body,” “thinking positive,” “practicing gratitude,” etc. The idea is that a person can just choose to end their suffering and that if they’re still suffering then they’re not making that choice or they’re not working hard enough.

I feel like every other day I run into a colleague that shares some amount of this viewpoint. Just yesterday my colleague was talking about how she has a client who takes lithium for bipolar disorder, but if he just “took better care of himself” by not drinking so much and exercising more then he wouldn’t need to be on medication. Another one of my colleagues said that people who take psychiatric medication aren’t living up to their full human potential. I’ve also heard colleagues say that they feel burdened by their clients and if their clients just took medication then they wouldn’t be suffering so much.

I just feel like almost everyone espouses this belief in some kind of way and I just want to escape from it so badly.

Noncompliant94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you tell me more about how you see it in
> your industry?

///

I work, or worked in the field of executive coaching and organization development until I asked too many questions.

>
> I mainly see it at work and in my field. I work at
> a mental health web magazine and do research in
> the field of mental health law and policy, and it
> seems like everyone has their own version of, “If
> you just do X then all your suffering would go
> away, but you’re not doing X well enough so you’re
> still suffering.” X could be meditation,
> mindfulness, yoga, exercise, medication, therapy,
> “seeking help,” “taking care of your body,”
> “thinking positive,” “practicing gratitude,” etc.
> The idea is that a person can just choose to end
> their suffering and that if they’re still
> suffering then they’re not making that choice or
> they’re not working hard enough.

ARGH!!! -- yes, I can very much relate to what you are reporting.

Couple of things I would observe about both the mental health 'industry' and its cousin 'self-help' in the U.S. (note, my field is a cousin to both of these enterprises), is that they like to SELL STUFF, are super, super commoditized, and when the stuff doesn't 'work', the carpenter NEVER blames his/her tools. This may be a partial legacy of LGAT.

Then there is what I think is a kind of American idea around "all suffering can be fixed"...or, "should be fixed".

I tend to be more of the Jordan Peterson school, of 'life is truly a bitch, and entails for many humans, significant hardship'...but, that joy, and a great deal of character building, can be netted from transcending obstacles.

To me, LGAT culture is all about FAKE transcendence, and magical solutions, cheating, if you will. It is a cheater culture. It, and its ilk, over-promises and under-delivers, and then blames the, well, patient, client, participant. And, many patients, clients, participants buy into this rendition of reality, and try all the harder.

I dunno,...I once did a volunteer stint in an AIDs hospice, and I figured out from this that one is powerless before certain kinds of suffering, and there is no fixing of this, really NOT.

I think people, all of us, can attain dignity in our suffering, the intractable kind, and that is a good as it gets.

I do think that suffering can be increased by the fraudster healers who don't recognize their own powerlessness, and blame the victim.

My field used to be kinda normal...you know, helping people to help themselves become a little more effective in their little roles on earth.

NOW it is about TRANSFORMATION.

I think this is all a poor replacement for real spirituality.

All I can think to say...

























>
> I feel like every other day I run into a colleague
> that shares some amount of this viewpoint. Just
> yesterday my colleague was talking about how she
> has a client who takes lithium for bipolar
> disorder, but if he just “took better care of
> himself” by not drinking so much and exercising
> more then he wouldn’t need to be on medication.
> Another one of my colleagues said that people who
> take psychiatric medication aren’t living up to
> their full human potential. I’ve also heard
> colleagues say that they feel burdened by their
> clients and if their clients just took medication
> then they wouldn’t be suffering so much.
>
> I just feel like almost everyone espouses this
> belief in some kind of way and I just want to
> escape from it so badly.

Sorry about lousy editing in my response...I was also thinking that Jung's statement about "neurosis" being a "substitute for legitimate suffering" kind of sums it up.

In your field, you deal with suffering related to so-called mental disorders. In my field, suffering might be related to the pain involved in actual change and development; that behavioral change takes REAL WORK, as opposed to an AHA moment, or a magical technique.

I am currently working with another 'woke' coach to analyze the images and memes associated with our field. We have concluded that if you find the word, "transformation" in the ad copy, you will see generally find a visual of a mountain peak...which connotes a "peak" or "transformative" experience RATHER than the hard work it takes to scale a mountain.

Wow, I can’t imagine working in the self-help field after realizing how culty and coercive it all is...how do you deal with it? Are you open about your own views and beliefs in the workplace?

I am so happy someone else here recognizes the absolute awfulness of the mental health industry, and how similar it is to the self-help industry. You are SO right that both use heavy amounts of victim-blaming to convince people that any suffering is their own fault and if the treatment/self-help group isn’t working they just aren’t trying hard enough.

I don’t necessarily think all suffering is inevitable or that people just have to cope with it though. My preferred approach is much more social justice informed - I think a lot of suffering would be reduced if we put an end to capitalism/neoliberalism and people could spend more time with their family/friends/close relationships than in the workplace. Also if we focused more on accepting people and valuing people for who they are rather than requiring them to change or “transform” through mental health, dieting, self-help, etc., I think people would generally feel much happier.

I think the thing that worries me most about self-help/LGAT ideology and mental health ideology is that it serves the interest of capitalism and neoliberalism. If you are struggling it can’t possibly be that you are overworked and underpaid, or that you are experiencing the effects of the patriarchy or racism or whatever it may be - it’s that you yourself are fundamentally broken and you need to “just do X” to stop suffering.

This is an excellent thread. And I share the concerns of my fellow posters. I don't have any solutions other than to stand our ground and not accept this faulty thinking.

Here is an example of how deeply entrenched this is now. A few weeks ago an old friend of mine sent me an email, out of the blue, listing all the reasons she felt gratitude for our long friendship. We rarely communicate these days, so that in itself annoyed me. But also it smacked of a LGAT and I asked her what course she was on. She said it was something her work, the medical profession, had sent her on and it was not a cult. And it was okay.

And this is where it gets tricky because unless you've experienced a LGAT and felt negatively about it, and then discovered their tricks via places like this forum, it is hard to prove. And that is what LGATs rely on.

When I responded with my understanding of gratitude and to point out how phoney this way she said she would rise above my reply and forgive me. Talk about not listening... That is total LGAT mind control.

I certainly support Noncomplaint94's post about this serving capitalism/neoliberalism and how this approach serves that ideology.

I recommend reading Brightside (US title) or Smile or Die (UK) book by Barbara Ehrenreich who charts how this way of thinking started in religion and then because used by corporations as social control. It is so pervasive that we don't notice it any more.

I wish I knew the answer to turn this around. What I do find helpful is to know that my response to the difficulties in my life are genuine, they prove that I am human and to keep pushing forward until I can find people who share my beliefs. It must be hard though if you are dependent on a social care system or others for support.

GloriaG,

Sorry to hear about your 'old friend'.

I agree LGAT values/behaviors have become ubiquitous.

I am currently working with a group of coach consultants on the design of what was represented to me as a simple communication skills training program. Let's see, we have employees operating in branches strewn across large geography and speaking different languages, and influenced by different national cultures, and using a lousy un-integrated software system. And, sure, any face to face contact will help build important bridges, BUT, I am hearing barriers must be broken down, and this can only be accomplished by LGAT-type confessionals. I ask 'why' this is so...nobody seems to know.

bakagirl