For further research
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 04, 2018 09:40PM
This is fascinating stuff.
For an insight into Werner Erhard's Napoleonic charisma and equally Napoleonic attention to detail, here is a description of his house and library given by an est disciple who was Erhard's volunteer assistant at the Erhard mansion in San Francisco in the 1970s.
[forum.culteducation.com]
More fun: get all the names given in that ICF conference presentation and
put them in the search slot for the Cult Education Institute Message board and select 'all dates' as this message board is over 15 years old.
See if the names come up in other contexts.
For an insight into Werner Erhard's Napoleonic charisma and equally Napoleonic attention to detail, here is a description of his house and library given by an est disciple who was Erhard's volunteer assistant at the Erhard mansion in San Francisco in the 1970s.
[forum.culteducation.com]
More fun: get all the names given in that ICF conference presentation and
put them in the search slot for the Cult Education Institute Message board and select 'all dates' as this message board is over 15 years old.
See if the names come up in other contexts.
Re: For further research
Posted by:
bakkagirl
()
Date: June 05, 2018 12:42PM
Thank you for the link to W.E.'s private world. 'Charisma' does not seem an adequate term to explain the sway he exerted over others, many others, and still does.
I will do a search of all parties listed in the ICF pantheon, as you suggest.
Honestly, I feel like I have been living, practicing a professional discipline, in a sort of dual universe.
I believed executive coaching to be based on 'behavioral science', and, I participated in a number of early research projects, and the shaping of the field...serious people, doing serious research, and toward the end of building more effective leaders...that was 'it'.
I saw the 'life coaching' thing as a related, but very different world. Literally had no idea of its true origins, and I doubt many people in my field do.
Thank you, again!
I will do a search of all parties listed in the ICF pantheon, as you suggest.
Honestly, I feel like I have been living, practicing a professional discipline, in a sort of dual universe.
I believed executive coaching to be based on 'behavioral science', and, I participated in a number of early research projects, and the shaping of the field...serious people, doing serious research, and toward the end of building more effective leaders...that was 'it'.
I saw the 'life coaching' thing as a related, but very different world. Literally had no idea of its true origins, and I doubt many people in my field do.
Thank you, again!
Re: For further research
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 05, 2018 11:33PM
To learn more about charisma get and read Prophetic Charisma by Len Oakes, a clinical psychologist who interviewed 20 charismatic leaders, many of whom could
be said to be cult leaders.
Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalities
[www.google.com]
Many gurus and spiritual teachers do use manipulation if they start life as a particular type of person who inwardly fragile, feels estranged
does not feel at ease in peer relatonships.
Psychologist Len Oakes lived in a commune led by a charismatic leader. Oakes
appreciated that commune, felt he benefitted. But he saw that the leader
had blind spots. After leaving the commune, Oakes learned that the leader and
group had come apart.
With an interest in charismatic leaders, Oakes sought to learn more about
charisma and how charismatic personalities form and how such persons
go on to become charismatic leaders and acquire followers.
Oakes found that charismatic persons follow a fairly typical life course.
These persons are highly intelligent and charming - they learn all they can to be charming.
They cannot function or enjoy friendship or erotic partnership with equals, cannot be vulnerable, are incapable of accepting rejection or refusals from partners, unable to reciprocate loyalty, incapable of gratitude -- all of which are necessary for enjoying ordinary peer relationships.
To compensate, these persons study all they can on how to attain social influence and enhance their charm.
Unable to relate, they learn to manipulate.
They often become gurus and religious leaders. They may teach quite useful skills, including meditation, but there is a problem, in that these people do not teach
from selflessness, no matter how much they claim to be selfless, no matter how
serenely they present themselves.
They teach because they need validation and because they need approval and trust
from an audience, and they teach because they need to acquire --and keep--
followers.
There's the rub. They have infinite, insatiable needs.
Oakes is a research psychologist/clinician and after being in a commune led by a charismatic leader, he left, and decided to research how people become charismatic leaders.
Oakes was able to interview 20 charismatic leaders* and found amazing similarities in their life trajectories. Early in life, all these persons had difficulty with ordinary intimacy with peers, and compensated by becoming avid students of social manipulation/communication. Quite a few were in previous careers as entertainers, musicians, teachers, and in some cases, business.
If they later became gurus, they continued to use these social manipulation skills but claimed this was given to them when, out of the blue they became enlightened.
They do not tell disciples they have spent hours practicing verbal judo behind closed doors.
(Several other leaders refused to expose themselves to scrutiny and declined to participate in Oakes study. One, who never met Oakes in person, presumed to tell LO that his life was meaningless)
All were risk takers, and learned how to stay on top of all that went on in their groups. They could talk their way out of awkward situations and learned how to identify even the slightest bit of hesitation in an adversary or potential recruit and adroitly throw that person off balance.
'A common manipulative strategy used by leaders in this study was an argumentative style that was calculated to subtly shift the ground of any discussion from whatever matter was being talked about toward some area of an opponents personal insecurity. In this technique, the leader observed the process of an opponent's conversation and identified some point of hesitency and uncertainy. This was not always a flaw of logic or error of fact; the conversation may have been on some topic about which the leader would have known little and been unable to detect such a mistake. Rather, it was more likely to be some personal unsureness on the part of the opponent, that the leader's exquisite social perception targeted.
'...Typically what was said (by the leader) was an observation that the opponent seemed to be "a bit steamed up about this" or was "finding it hard to say what this is all about." In this was, the opponent was invited, sympathetically and seductively, to expand upon the very point of weakness.
'Or the leader claimed not to understand what was meant at a particular point, perhaps even saying that the opponent was not making sense.
'This usually lead to a further exposure, and then another, until the opponent stumbled over his words and began to look uncomfortable. At thsi point a well time dismissive glance from the leader was all that was needed to intimidate, the other person being glad to have the subject changed to how he might redeem his soul or however...'
(Oakes, pp 89-90)
Corboy reflection:
Werner Erhard's library was more than a library. It was his armory his collection of high tech mental and verbal weaponry for conquering as many minds and hearts as possible in one lifetime.
If a charismatic leader becomes successful, aquires disciples and assembles an entourage, trouble is likely. The leader may feel pressured by the many
disciples and then begin to hide. Gone are the early days when disciples
were on a first name basis with the teacher, ate together, shared meals
and jokes, gone the free and easy mood. Instead, the leader becomes less
accessible.
Rumors take the place of direct contact.
Favoritism rears its ugly
head.
Those with access to the guru become an elite. Those who fall from favor
become scapegoats.
Tension sets in.
Loyal older members who donated hours even years of time are shoved aside in favor of new recruits with glamour and money. Or, new recruits who are cute, beautiful and more entertaining than old timers who know the leader's human quirks and flaws.
If the leader spends years insulating him or herself with the the help of a selected entourage and large bank account, he or she will probably lose quite a few ordinary social skills (eg patience, the ability to accept differences of opinion, the ability to feel frustrated without exploding and dumping on an underling).
By this time, the leader will have little incentive to function any other way than as this kind of leader---someone who functions in a drastically unequal power imbalance and who hides the real self behind a public persona and whose emotional needs and flare ups are modulated and managed by an entourage who parent and nurture the guru and cover up for him or her.
A leader may teach a useful skill such as meditation. But the problem arises when
the teaching situation claims to be for the benefit of students but on the unspoken level, operates for the benefit of the teacher - to reassure the teacher that he or she is desirable and prop up the teacher's fragile self.
And here is where belief systems may play a role.
If the belief is taught that there is such a thing as a living human being who is free from ego, remains permanently free from ego, permanently incorruptible, then
that belief can keep us trapped.
a) Trapped with a teacher who claims to be such a person
or
b) Trapped in the quest for such a person. If we believe a fully realized living person exists somewhere, we may spend too much time with someone who appears tobe that person but is not - and damage ourselves by spending too much time in
the company of such persons.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2018 11:41PM by corboy.
be said to be cult leaders.
Prophetic Charisma: The Psychology of Revolutionary Religious Personalities
[www.google.com]
Many gurus and spiritual teachers do use manipulation if they start life as a particular type of person who inwardly fragile, feels estranged
does not feel at ease in peer relatonships.
Psychologist Len Oakes lived in a commune led by a charismatic leader. Oakes
appreciated that commune, felt he benefitted. But he saw that the leader
had blind spots. After leaving the commune, Oakes learned that the leader and
group had come apart.
With an interest in charismatic leaders, Oakes sought to learn more about
charisma and how charismatic personalities form and how such persons
go on to become charismatic leaders and acquire followers.
Oakes found that charismatic persons follow a fairly typical life course.
These persons are highly intelligent and charming - they learn all they can to be charming.
They cannot function or enjoy friendship or erotic partnership with equals, cannot be vulnerable, are incapable of accepting rejection or refusals from partners, unable to reciprocate loyalty, incapable of gratitude -- all of which are necessary for enjoying ordinary peer relationships.
To compensate, these persons study all they can on how to attain social influence and enhance their charm.
Unable to relate, they learn to manipulate.
They often become gurus and religious leaders. They may teach quite useful skills, including meditation, but there is a problem, in that these people do not teach
from selflessness, no matter how much they claim to be selfless, no matter how
serenely they present themselves.
They teach because they need validation and because they need approval and trust
from an audience, and they teach because they need to acquire --and keep--
followers.
There's the rub. They have infinite, insatiable needs.
Oakes is a research psychologist/clinician and after being in a commune led by a charismatic leader, he left, and decided to research how people become charismatic leaders.
Oakes was able to interview 20 charismatic leaders* and found amazing similarities in their life trajectories. Early in life, all these persons had difficulty with ordinary intimacy with peers, and compensated by becoming avid students of social manipulation/communication. Quite a few were in previous careers as entertainers, musicians, teachers, and in some cases, business.
If they later became gurus, they continued to use these social manipulation skills but claimed this was given to them when, out of the blue they became enlightened.
They do not tell disciples they have spent hours practicing verbal judo behind closed doors.
(Several other leaders refused to expose themselves to scrutiny and declined to participate in Oakes study. One, who never met Oakes in person, presumed to tell LO that his life was meaningless)
All were risk takers, and learned how to stay on top of all that went on in their groups. They could talk their way out of awkward situations and learned how to identify even the slightest bit of hesitation in an adversary or potential recruit and adroitly throw that person off balance.
'A common manipulative strategy used by leaders in this study was an argumentative style that was calculated to subtly shift the ground of any discussion from whatever matter was being talked about toward some area of an opponents personal insecurity. In this technique, the leader observed the process of an opponent's conversation and identified some point of hesitency and uncertainy. This was not always a flaw of logic or error of fact; the conversation may have been on some topic about which the leader would have known little and been unable to detect such a mistake. Rather, it was more likely to be some personal unsureness on the part of the opponent, that the leader's exquisite social perception targeted.
'...Typically what was said (by the leader) was an observation that the opponent seemed to be "a bit steamed up about this" or was "finding it hard to say what this is all about." In this was, the opponent was invited, sympathetically and seductively, to expand upon the very point of weakness.
'Or the leader claimed not to understand what was meant at a particular point, perhaps even saying that the opponent was not making sense.
'This usually lead to a further exposure, and then another, until the opponent stumbled over his words and began to look uncomfortable. At thsi point a well time dismissive glance from the leader was all that was needed to intimidate, the other person being glad to have the subject changed to how he might redeem his soul or however...'
(Oakes, pp 89-90)
Corboy reflection:
Werner Erhard's library was more than a library. It was his armory his collection of high tech mental and verbal weaponry for conquering as many minds and hearts as possible in one lifetime.
If a charismatic leader becomes successful, aquires disciples and assembles an entourage, trouble is likely. The leader may feel pressured by the many
disciples and then begin to hide. Gone are the early days when disciples
were on a first name basis with the teacher, ate together, shared meals
and jokes, gone the free and easy mood. Instead, the leader becomes less
accessible.
Rumors take the place of direct contact.
Favoritism rears its ugly
head.
Those with access to the guru become an elite. Those who fall from favor
become scapegoats.
Tension sets in.
Loyal older members who donated hours even years of time are shoved aside in favor of new recruits with glamour and money. Or, new recruits who are cute, beautiful and more entertaining than old timers who know the leader's human quirks and flaws.
If the leader spends years insulating him or herself with the the help of a selected entourage and large bank account, he or she will probably lose quite a few ordinary social skills (eg patience, the ability to accept differences of opinion, the ability to feel frustrated without exploding and dumping on an underling).
By this time, the leader will have little incentive to function any other way than as this kind of leader---someone who functions in a drastically unequal power imbalance and who hides the real self behind a public persona and whose emotional needs and flare ups are modulated and managed by an entourage who parent and nurture the guru and cover up for him or her.
A leader may teach a useful skill such as meditation. But the problem arises when
the teaching situation claims to be for the benefit of students but on the unspoken level, operates for the benefit of the teacher - to reassure the teacher that he or she is desirable and prop up the teacher's fragile self.
And here is where belief systems may play a role.
If the belief is taught that there is such a thing as a living human being who is free from ego, remains permanently free from ego, permanently incorruptible, then
that belief can keep us trapped.
a) Trapped with a teacher who claims to be such a person
or
b) Trapped in the quest for such a person. If we believe a fully realized living person exists somewhere, we may spend too much time with someone who appears tobe that person but is not - and damage ourselves by spending too much time in
the company of such persons.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2018 11:41PM by corboy.
Re: International Coach Federation
Posted by:
bakkagirl
()
Date: June 06, 2018 09:18AM
Thank you for all of this, and particularly your reflection:
Werner Erhard's library was more than a library. It was his armory, his collection of high tech mental and verbal weaponry for conquering as many minds and hearts as possible in one lifetime.
Question: Does a record of the contents that library exist?
I found a copy of Oakes' work on-line...thanks!
The personality profile outlined strikes me as textbook 'malignant narcissist'.
Erhard is of interest to me, and beyond his pernicious influence over the coaching field, because he seems to have been more socially facile than many of his guru counterparts. He was able to traverse many worlds, to influence broadly, and in quarters that should have been resistant to his 'charms'.
I continue to believe that not only did he weaponize influence technologies, but he, in turn, was weaponized. I say this owing to the Esalen connection, and CIA involvement with that 'whatever it was/is'.
Please note, this story is quite personal for me. My brother-in-law became involved with Esalen during his MsW training. Our family watched in horror as a middle class schlep was transformed, or transformed himself into a mini guru who began running a cult of personality within a family therapy practice, and within his suburban community.
See a LOT of this in the coaching field where the guru to normal ratio has reached a tipping point...see the whole celebrity coach phenomenon. What scares me it the penetration of this culture into corporate entities. Maybe this coincides, in some way, with charismatic CEO cults??? Dunno...
All for now...
Werner Erhard's library was more than a library. It was his armory, his collection of high tech mental and verbal weaponry for conquering as many minds and hearts as possible in one lifetime.
Question: Does a record of the contents that library exist?
I found a copy of Oakes' work on-line...thanks!
The personality profile outlined strikes me as textbook 'malignant narcissist'.
Erhard is of interest to me, and beyond his pernicious influence over the coaching field, because he seems to have been more socially facile than many of his guru counterparts. He was able to traverse many worlds, to influence broadly, and in quarters that should have been resistant to his 'charms'.
I continue to believe that not only did he weaponize influence technologies, but he, in turn, was weaponized. I say this owing to the Esalen connection, and CIA involvement with that 'whatever it was/is'.
Please note, this story is quite personal for me. My brother-in-law became involved with Esalen during his MsW training. Our family watched in horror as a middle class schlep was transformed, or transformed himself into a mini guru who began running a cult of personality within a family therapy practice, and within his suburban community.
See a LOT of this in the coaching field where the guru to normal ratio has reached a tipping point...see the whole celebrity coach phenomenon. What scares me it the penetration of this culture into corporate entities. Maybe this coincides, in some way, with charismatic CEO cults??? Dunno...
All for now...
Re: International Coach Federation
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 07, 2018 11:10AM
erner Erhard sponsored visits to the United States by two gurus:
Baba Muktananda
[forum.culteducation.com]
was recorded as visiting two Tibetan gurus, the XIV Karmapa and Chogyam Trungpa.
[forum.culteducation.com]
We learned that Muktananda incorporated est methods into his Siddha Yoga intensives.
Gurumayi, Muktananda's successor also uses this stuff.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Former Muktananda disciples described this stuff in a listserve discussion back in the 1990s.
[forum.culteducation.com]
And Gurumayi was the guru who inspired Elizabeth Gilbert who wrote Eat Pray Love
(which we here at CEI nicknamed eat prey love)
[forum.culteducation.com]
A lot of poison was brewed at Esalen.
Bandler and Grinder were there - they cooked up NLP neurolinguistic programming.
We had a contributor to the CEI message board named The Anticult who
wrote out analyses of the covert conversational trance methods utilized by Byron Katie.
[forum.culteducation.com]
This discussion covered a staggering range as more of us got involved and contributed.
Bandler and Grinder and Esalen -- discussions by The ANticult
[forum.culteducation.com]
Yet more
[forum.culteducation.com]
Baba Muktananda
[forum.culteducation.com]
was recorded as visiting two Tibetan gurus, the XIV Karmapa and Chogyam Trungpa.
[forum.culteducation.com]
We learned that Muktananda incorporated est methods into his Siddha Yoga intensives.
Gurumayi, Muktananda's successor also uses this stuff.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Former Muktananda disciples described this stuff in a listserve discussion back in the 1990s.
[forum.culteducation.com]
And Gurumayi was the guru who inspired Elizabeth Gilbert who wrote Eat Pray Love
(which we here at CEI nicknamed eat prey love)
[forum.culteducation.com]
A lot of poison was brewed at Esalen.
Bandler and Grinder were there - they cooked up NLP neurolinguistic programming.
We had a contributor to the CEI message board named The Anticult who
wrote out analyses of the covert conversational trance methods utilized by Byron Katie.
[forum.culteducation.com]
This discussion covered a staggering range as more of us got involved and contributed.
Bandler and Grinder and Esalen -- discussions by The ANticult
[forum.culteducation.com]
Yet more
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: For further research
Posted by:
bakkagirl
()
Date: June 08, 2018 07:13PM
GRANDIOSE, JUST A LITTLE?
(excerpts from "The Secret History of Coaching", NYC Presentation 2013, Vikki Brock, [www.vikkibrock.com])
WHAT THE FUTURE MAY HOLD...
Coaching becomes
* A sustainable, mature and valued profession
* Institutionalized and bureaucratic
* Overtaken by a new discipline/profession
* A part of coaching psychology
* The dominant worldview and global culture.
ONE PREFERRED FUTURE...
Coaching becomes
*The dominant worldview and global culture.
*An open, fluid social movement.
*Spread virally through human relationships
and interactions
* Woven into the fabric of life
* Communication process and style for human interaction.
What is your vision of the future for coaching?
(excerpts from "The Secret History of Coaching", NYC Presentation 2013, Vikki Brock, [www.vikkibrock.com])
WHAT THE FUTURE MAY HOLD...
Coaching becomes
* A sustainable, mature and valued profession
* Institutionalized and bureaucratic
* Overtaken by a new discipline/profession
* A part of coaching psychology
* The dominant worldview and global culture.
ONE PREFERRED FUTURE...
Coaching becomes
*The dominant worldview and global culture.
*An open, fluid social movement.
*Spread virally through human relationships
and interactions
* Woven into the fabric of life
* Communication process and style for human interaction.
What is your vision of the future for coaching?
Coaching, Coaching Uber Alles?
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: June 08, 2018 08:44PM
Corboy comment:
California Über Alles - The Dead Kennedys
[www.google.com]
This song is decades old and the references to Carter and Jerry Brown are out of date.
The rest of the song is remains all too true, except its no longer California, its global.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 08:50PM by corboy.
California Über Alles - The Dead Kennedys
[www.google.com]
This song is decades old and the references to Carter and Jerry Brown are out of date.
The rest of the song is remains all too true, except its no longer California, its global.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 08:50PM by corboy.
Re: For further research
Posted by:
kdag
()
Date: June 09, 2018 01:23PM
bakkagirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GRANDIOSE, JUST A
> LITTLE
>
> WHAT THE FUTURE MAY HOLD...
>
> Coaching becomes
>
> * A sustainable, mature and valued profession
> * Institutionalized and bureaucratic
> * Overtaken by a new discipline/profession
> * A part of coaching psychology
> * The dominant worldview and global culture.
>
> ONE PREFERRED FUTURE...
>
> Coaching becomes
>
> *The dominant worldview and global culture.
> *An open, fluid social movement.
> *Spread virally through human relationships
> and interactions
> * Woven into the fabric of life
> * Communication process and style for human
> interaction.
>
> What is your vision of the future for coaching?
Yes, grandiose. I thought that i would pop in with a question or two, and an observation about Landmark.
Under your first set of bullets, ("Coaching becomes"), i see "overtaken by a new discipline," "a part of coaching psychology," and "institutionalized and bureaucratic."
Question: i'm sorry about my ignorance, but do all of these coaches have psychological degrees? I am not sure what the profession itself entails, especially in other countries. In the U.S., people can hang out their shingles and call themselves "psychotherapists," but most people would go to an LCSW, or licensed clinical psychologist, who are governed by a regulating board.
The reason i bring this up is because Landmark states on their consent form that they are NOT psychologists or psychiatric professionals, and that we should not construe participation as "treatment." They then go ahead and use methods such as "flooding," which a licensed psychologist would only use with signed, informed consent. Is this coaching federation teaching tactics like these, without the rest of the formal education necessary to use them?
If these people are calling themselves, "business coaches," or "leadership coaches," and then using these methods without informed consent on the part of their clients, this WOULD set off alarm bells for me.
When you add, "The dominant world view and culture," (which is in both sections), it DOES sound cultish and coercive, to me.
-------------------------------------------------------
> GRANDIOSE, JUST A
> LITTLE
>
> WHAT THE FUTURE MAY HOLD...
>
> Coaching becomes
>
> * A sustainable, mature and valued profession
> * Institutionalized and bureaucratic
> * Overtaken by a new discipline/profession
> * A part of coaching psychology
> * The dominant worldview and global culture.
>
> ONE PREFERRED FUTURE...
>
> Coaching becomes
>
> *The dominant worldview and global culture.
> *An open, fluid social movement.
> *Spread virally through human relationships
> and interactions
> * Woven into the fabric of life
> * Communication process and style for human
> interaction.
>
> What is your vision of the future for coaching?
Yes, grandiose. I thought that i would pop in with a question or two, and an observation about Landmark.
Under your first set of bullets, ("Coaching becomes"), i see "overtaken by a new discipline," "a part of coaching psychology," and "institutionalized and bureaucratic."
Question: i'm sorry about my ignorance, but do all of these coaches have psychological degrees? I am not sure what the profession itself entails, especially in other countries. In the U.S., people can hang out their shingles and call themselves "psychotherapists," but most people would go to an LCSW, or licensed clinical psychologist, who are governed by a regulating board.
The reason i bring this up is because Landmark states on their consent form that they are NOT psychologists or psychiatric professionals, and that we should not construe participation as "treatment." They then go ahead and use methods such as "flooding," which a licensed psychologist would only use with signed, informed consent. Is this coaching federation teaching tactics like these, without the rest of the formal education necessary to use them?
If these people are calling themselves, "business coaches," or "leadership coaches," and then using these methods without informed consent on the part of their clients, this WOULD set off alarm bells for me.
When you add, "The dominant world view and culture," (which is in both sections), it DOES sound cultish and coercive, to me.
Re: For further research
Posted by:
bakkagirl
()
Date: June 09, 2018 06:10PM
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and questions.
When I started in the coaching field, it was dominated by I.O.P's (Industrial and Organizational Psychologists) I was trained by these folks.
As the field evolved it became multi-disciplinary, a good thing -- we have practitioners with advanced business degrees and deep business backgrounds, inter-culturalists (generally Ph.D's), clinical psychologists, organization development specialists.
Enter the International Coach Federation. In theory, one could achieve the ICF's highest accreditation level, w/o benefit of a college degree. They have created their own universe of credentials. More worrying is that they promote 'technologies' such as NLP, and NVC, and strongly urge their coaches to employ these methods with their clients, and without benefit of much research regarding their use in these contexts.
They have no way to monitor the quality of delivery, and this is especially so in Asia. We have ICF coaches in Japan and China who do not understand the difference between coaching and NLP, who think NLP is coaching, and, who presumably use their clients as guinea pigs.
Additionally, the ICF approved as its chapter presidents a number of individuals who had no background in the field, or even a related professional discipline. They were just looking for people with large social networks -- this is where some of the MLM scheme aspects are evident.
I have protested this, as have heard a number of clinical psychologists.
Another thing I should explain is that owing mostly to the ICF's lobbying, the field of coaching is now self-regulating. I can recall even a few years ago when executive coaches needed to carry professional liability insurance. This is all gone.
Unfortunately, many corporate buyers believe an ICF credential is an indication of a competent and ethical practitioner, REALLY NOT THE CASE, though.
Yes, there are red flags all over the place! Yes, the ICF culture is cult-like and coercive.
When I started in the coaching field, it was dominated by I.O.P's (Industrial and Organizational Psychologists) I was trained by these folks.
As the field evolved it became multi-disciplinary, a good thing -- we have practitioners with advanced business degrees and deep business backgrounds, inter-culturalists (generally Ph.D's), clinical psychologists, organization development specialists.
Enter the International Coach Federation. In theory, one could achieve the ICF's highest accreditation level, w/o benefit of a college degree. They have created their own universe of credentials. More worrying is that they promote 'technologies' such as NLP, and NVC, and strongly urge their coaches to employ these methods with their clients, and without benefit of much research regarding their use in these contexts.
They have no way to monitor the quality of delivery, and this is especially so in Asia. We have ICF coaches in Japan and China who do not understand the difference between coaching and NLP, who think NLP is coaching, and, who presumably use their clients as guinea pigs.
Additionally, the ICF approved as its chapter presidents a number of individuals who had no background in the field, or even a related professional discipline. They were just looking for people with large social networks -- this is where some of the MLM scheme aspects are evident.
I have protested this, as have heard a number of clinical psychologists.
Another thing I should explain is that owing mostly to the ICF's lobbying, the field of coaching is now self-regulating. I can recall even a few years ago when executive coaches needed to carry professional liability insurance. This is all gone.
Unfortunately, many corporate buyers believe an ICF credential is an indication of a competent and ethical practitioner, REALLY NOT THE CASE, though.
Yes, there are red flags all over the place! Yes, the ICF culture is cult-like and coercive.
Re: International Coach Federation
Posted by:
bakkagirl
()
Date: June 09, 2018 10:33PM
This is truly alarming stuff. Yikes!
I can add a little detail about Esalen. It is my understanding that during the 70's and 80's Japanese academics participated in Esalen events, and, were, how shall I say it, sexually compromised.
We have two organization development networks in Japan. One is run by the aforesaid academics, and the other by normals.
I can add a little detail about Esalen. It is my understanding that during the 70's and 80's Japanese academics participated in Esalen events, and, were, how shall I say it, sexually compromised.
We have two organization development networks in Japan. One is run by the aforesaid academics, and the other by normals.
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