To be honest midonov123 - I do believe this is a new breed of LGAT, it really doesn't seem to rely on FULL control, nor does it seem to install the set ideology firmly. Its way too washy for it to have ful control or ideology implantings IMO!

This is potentionally more 'dangerous', or at least unpredicatable, than other LGATs. (I really don't think this is a 'cult' (thats not aimed at you midonov))

This LGAT, to my knowledge, is the first to truly break away, at least in appearances, from a localised, or centralised, leader(s)/technology. In fact, each 'cell' or, as I'm prefer they would like to be called 'order', has relative autonomy within a set of parameters. Unlike a LGAT such as landmark, the leadership of a weekend appears more individual in approach and messages.

The only true comparison I can find, and I have mentioned this before, is in the organisation of the al-Queda cult/sect/cells. In a software sense, I see this more as open-source, just within, again, a very narrow boundry of 'coding' instructions.

Its slippery, and not ethical, thats for sure!

Hi Tim

It would perhaps be better to join the debate taking place on this thread:

[board.culteducation.com]

rather than here. But, please do answer mine and others questions here.

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Tim Batdorf
I would be happy to answer any questions anyone may have about the Mankind Project.

Thanks for offering your interpretation of MKP and its protocols. I for one am very open to the polysemic nature of these weekends and the individual interpretations of them.

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Tim Batdorf
MKP sponsors weekend retreats.

To state that MKP 'sponsors' these [b:4c6640f9cc]adventure training weekends[/b:4c6640f9cc] (their words, not mine or yours), is overly simplistic Tim. MKP in no way provides funds to facilitate the weekend. The 20 or so men pay themselves to go. I accept that grants are sometimes provided. I can only suggest you are overpriced. But to suggest it 'sponsors' is linguistic nonsense.

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Tim Batdorf
MKP's intention is to empower men in their own lives.

We ask men to create their own personal mission statements based on their own lives and their own experiences.

We don't have dogma or doctrine men must follow - quite the opposite.

OK, I'm going to be a little harsh here, because, whilst you claim to be happy to answer questions, you follow this with a list of, well, barely truthful statements.

I will start with pointing out your state that MKP has an 'intention'. OK, it is also an 'educational' weekend, yes?

First, there are more the one 'intention'S - there are several 'Principles of Our Order'. 9 to be exact. You also do a little more than simply ask men to "create their own personal mission statements" - would you care to explain the sleep deprivation, the food deprivation and the need to explain MKP's crazy science myth 3 times?!

The first two 'principles' very much show you claim to have the opposite to dogma and doctrine to be a fallacy - I quote for eductaional purposes from their 'protocol' manual:

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1. I create my own perception of reality.
2. My outer reality exists as a reflection of my inner world.

Well, I mean, to be less cruel I won't press my point. You should feel 'out of integrity' with your self and you inner and outer reality, as you create them.

Interesting isn't it - I am you speaking to you now, showing your childish side of your belief structure.

So how is this NOT dogmatic or, taking the weekend as a whole, not an attempt at a form of indoctrination?

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Tim Batdorf
Because the weekend tends to be powerful, men often leave the weekend really enthusiastic and excited about their lives.

Statistics please.

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Tim Batdorf
In addition, oftentimes men will come off the weekend and start trusting their gut more.

'Trusting their gut' is a hugely ambigious term Tim, could you enlarge? Or are you refering to the 'GUT' 'training'?! The self psychology manual of MKP.

You definately believe it is positive though, as your statement clearly shows this.

I can only assume you mean the LGAT technique of getting people to 'trust in emotions' rather than a (normal) mixture of examining emotion and reason equally. Of course, the weekend does map how to cut down on ration thinking. At its very least this is an example of the type of ideological indoctrination you claim doesn't happen!

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Tim Batdorf
If they are in a marriage that isn't working, they will start looking at the marriage and hopefully try to make their marriage work.

Subjective and emotive, I would like to see some statistics on this claim.

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Tim Batdorf
The MKP weekend is powerful and does change men's lives.

Well thats interesting! How could anyone disagree with this statement?

Breathing also is powerful and changes a persons life. - That'll cost you $200 for that education.

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Tim Batdorf
Oftentimes family members are scared of change.

Oh really, thats called love and concern. And the fact that very few of you will tell the truth about anything. and that you only 'hope' that you psychological techniques will help a man to make their marriage work! Only hopefully! For $600

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Tim Batdorf
We're all scared of change.

No we are not ALL scared of change. Thats very presumptious, and awfully patronising.

Anyone that needs to cling to mythopoetic psychology is afraid of change IMO!

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Tim Batdorf
And if a marriage is strong, I think it encourages growth and change and honesty.

And how exactly can you have honesty with the MKP creating shadows?

You, or MKP, seem to be anti-marriage IMO. marriage needs 'change'? Really? thats yours, or MKPs, opinion, i'm not sure which.

[b:5848a36a0f]Moderator note:

"wquercus" posted information here about the Mankind Project, which he admitted attending. Subsequently, more than a year later "wquercus" returned to delete all his posts regarding the Mankind Project. However, portions of his statements remain as quoted/noted by other members posting here.

Apparently, "wquercus" came to realize that his statements provided proof concerning what goes on inside the Mankind Project and he therefore decided that he didn't want that information to remain here publicly visible.

The Mankind Project and its supporters have done everything possible to keep its practices secret, as anyone reading threads about that organization at this message board should readily realize. [/b:5848a36a0f]

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wquercus

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MKP in no way provides funds to facilitate the weekend. The 20 or so men pay themselves to go. I accept that grants are sometimes provided.

I'd be interested in knowing how many people get grants. I paid $150 myself, with the rest coming from MKP and from friends on staff.

Lots, they do this in hopes that you will get something out of it and then you will (grant or sponsors) somebody in the future, so either way, they suck you in! Then come all the other trainings, brother dances, a rank sort of thing! Its a nickle dime here and there, and it soon adds up! And There is always more and more exercises added, seems you never get ride of those darn shadows! Hmmm

[b:d249ec9836]Moderator note:

"wquercus" posted information here about the Mankind Project, which he admitted attending. Subsequently, more than a year later "wquercus" returned to delete all his posts regarding the Mankind Project. However, portions of his statements remain as quoted/noted by other members posting here.

Apparently, "wquercus" came to realize that his statements provided proof concerning what goes on inside the Mankind Project and he therefore decided that he didn't want that information to remain here publicly visible.

The Mankind Project and its supporters have done everything possible to keep its practices secret, as anyone reading threads about that organization at this message board should readily realize.[/b:d249ec9836]

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Tim Batdorf
I would be happy to answer any questions anyone may have about the Mankind Project.

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Tim Batdorf
My two cents, Tim Batdorf

Which do you think he meant then?

:o

That he'd be happy to give you his 2 cents so that you could go to the weekend and answer the questions for yourself? (Tee hee...)

I am willing to answer questions regarding MKP. I'm not a spokesman. I'll speak to my personal experiences.

I'm willing to talk as long as the discussion is respectful. I'm not willing to be verbally abused for an hour.

I've scheduled a conference call for 3 pm on Wednesday, May 17, 2006. The phone number is 712-432-2000. The access code is 768343.

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Tim Batdorf
I am willing to answer questions regarding MKP. I'm not a spokesman. I'll speak to my personal experiences.

I'm willing to talk as long as the discussion is respectful. I'm not willing to be verbally abused for an hour.

I've scheduled a conference call for 3 pm on Wednesday, May 17, 2006. The phone number is 712-432-2000. The access code is 768343.

Mind if I return charges then?

Why are MKP'ers so touchy about 'respect'?

Tim, I am not familiar with this type of conference call. Do I just call this number and go to the code? Is this a charge by the minute call? What time zone are you in?

I would not verbally abuse you. I would be willing to listen to you. Are you willing to listen to me and not be disrepectful to me?

My story is posted here on another thread. I also post on a yahoo group. I have been called a liar and a hysterical person needing attention by some men from MKP. I considered those men to be quite disrespectful to me.