Thanks Corbin and kdag.

Kdag your chocolate and vanilla scenario seems to be what happened to me, but in my case he did not chose me. As you know, no explanation was given for his choice.

Not giving people content is extremely destructive.

The smiling through dissatisfaction that you alluded to earlier is interesting as well. Actually the entire chocolate/vanilla exercise is not conducive to effective communication at all. A person should not be smiling when they are doing something they don’t like or are causing people pain, and being forced to do so is awful. It would induce sociopathic traits.

I think Corboy posted earlier about how the Landmark participant is taught to smile or laugh if someone else is crying/upset. All these concepts must be tied in together someway to contribute to the change in someone’s outward demeanour and their behaviours. It must be something to do with altering the Limbic system which also happens during the sleep/sensory deprevation and fear based meditation - again when you are meant to laugh after it’s finished.

Even summising the information from you both and from what I observed, the landmark participant seems to be encouraged to only project happiness no matter the consequences. This denies true feelings to surface for themselves and those around them, as no ones true feelings are even acknowledged - or allowed to be displayed for that matter.

Wow....

When they demonstrated the choice exercise, (chocolate/ vanilla), I saw it as a lesson to take what's available, and make the best of it. Not a bad point, and it's a great skill to have a good attitude in the face of disappointments.

The problem I had was when they paired us up, and we had to "choose" a situation that we were really upset about. This could be a betrayal, or a serious loss, etc. That did not sit well with me, and I agree that trying to fake your way through it can do more harm than good. Also, in "choosing" it, I would have been taking responsibility for someone else's behavior, (which was betrayal).

I also did not like their new definition of "choice." It would take an idiot to "choose" some of the things that people were dealing with, and once again, they were twisting the meaniings of words.

Here is some information on how Landmarkians are trained to ignore when people say no.

[forum.culteducation.com]

(small quotation)

Quote

As her boyfriend got further into the organization, signing up for the leadership and self-expression program, Sumerlin agreed to attend an introductory course.

"They were just big sales pitches," she says. "We were whisked away into these back rooms where they try to get you to sign up. If you don't they want to know why. What's so great about your life that you don't want to improve it? Why do you have such a hard time committing to anything?"


In fact, she says, a former (Landmark) volunteer told her how they were taught to desensitize themselves to objections from potential recruits by singing "Old MacDonald Had a Farm" and substituting all the possible objections people might have for the verses:

"I'm not signing up because…of money." Normal human person

Ee-I-Ee-I-O. Landmarkian tune-out

I'm not signing up because…I don't want to. Normal human person

Ee-I-Ei-I-O." Landmarkian tune-out

Corboy opinions and hunches.

No human being, acting in good faith, can cope with people who pretend to be in good faith but who have been systematically trained to pretend listening while ignoring any response contrary to their ideology.

And...because they regard you as an object, a mechanism, while you regard them
them as persons, the Landmarkians operate at an advantage.

The Landmarkian will not get tired, while you rapidly get exhausted.

Why?

Respecting people requires us to make that extra effort to empathize, listen, understand.

Regarding people as problems to be solved does not require nearly as much effort.


Treating people as objects turns communication into a problem solving exercise -- like an auto mechanic diagnosing engine problems.

No empathy needed when dealing with objects. An automobile is a mechanism, nothing more. No need to worry about its hopes and dreams.

Perhaps to the Landmarkian, the non Landmarkian is nothing more than a soft computer that runs on an inferior, outdated program.

The non Landmarkian is unaware that he or she is regarded as a problem to be solved, nothing more than a carnal computer running on an out dated program, a deficiency must be fixed by scrubbing the hard drive and reprogramming it to run on Landmark Code

The Landmarkian is a person who has been turned into a machine that runs on Landmark Code, whose only purpose is to recruit others so they can be reformatted and then programmed to run Landmark Code.

Just a hunch, a thought experiment on Corboy's part.

Maybe this is the great secret:

In Werner Erhard's world, relationships are not between persons. Relationships
are technology.

Persons do not exist.

You are either a soft machine that runs on Landmark code, or a soft machine
that runs on non Landmark code.

Anyone in the latter category is inferior and must be 'saved'.

Salvation, according to the Gospel of Werner Erhard, means non Landmarkians must have their DOS scrubbed clean and re-loaded with Landmark code, then released upon the unsuspecting general population.

Werner Erhard is the Great Programmer, the Code Master.

The rest of us are soft machines, either running on Werner's code, or not running on Werner's code.

Baptism into Werner Erhard's church means you are taken into one of Erhard's
laboratories, your hard drive is scrubbed clean and then programmed with Werner Code.

(Corboy now speaking fancifully, but being dead serious, nevertheless)

This is Pentecost, this is the gift of the Holy Spirit, according to
Werner Erhard.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2017 09:51PM by corboy.

corboy is correct. Also, you are better off simply saying "no," and stressing that you have absolutely ZERO interest.

If you give your would-be recruiter reasons for why you cannot attend, they are trained to magically come up with "solutions" to every obstacle.

In the seminars, the seminar leaders train particpants to recruit through the use of role-playing. They pass back and forth a box of Kleenex,  with the goal of keeping the kleenex with the would-be recruit.

It goes something like this:

"Gee, I'm sorry, but I have a whole bunch of meetings at work next week." (hands seminar leader the kleenex).

S.L. "That's okay, we have another introduction the week after," (hands back box of kleenex).

"But I can never find a babysitter."

S.L. "I have a friend who can babysit." (hands back kleenex).

...and on and on ad nauseam.

Once they get you to the intro, you have deliberately gone without money or checkbook.  Your "friend"  who invited you whips out a $100 bill to cover your down payment. If you still decline, they will resort to tears.

Also, the introduction is designed so that you will have listed things in your life that are NOT working.

Another ploy is for the introduction leader to say, "Okay, fine! If you really want to stay in your crappy job, and are not really comitted to saving your marriage,  (which is the LAST thing Landmark will actually do), then, by all means, go on about your life the way you always have."

Thank you, that actually makes much more sense to me. It explains how I was exactly treated. As an object/problem to be solved.

He has no empathy, compassion or the ability to communicate effectively. He is robotic in his actions and extremely self serving needing the accolades and validations of a rock star.

Thank you both. That really really helped.

Gosh, if it is taking me this long to decipher and rebuild - it just proves how insidious Landmark is. I was the collateral damage and I didn’t even partake.

Huge kudos to those within Landmark who are to break free and begin to recover.

Here is a comparison that might help.

Imagine you have a laptop that runs on Linux.

How would you feel if your boyfriend/girlfriend/boss converted
their computer to MS DOS and the Windows 10 program and after doing
this, began pressuring you to do the same?

Every conversation turns into a sales pitch to change your
laptop from Linux to MS DOS and Windows 10.

Meanwhile:

Suppose people who were having problems with Windows 10 got served with
lawsuits by Microsoft if they published articles describing specific malfunctions of Windows 10, along with MS DOS being more vulnerable to
viruses than Linus or OS.

Imagine Microsoft serving lawsuits against online discussion forums where
members discuss problems they had with MS DOS and Windows 10. Imagine
such forum discussions being repeatedly disrupted by pro Microsoft trolls.

Sound fanciful?

Substitute 'Landmark' for Microsoft and that is pretty much what we have seen
here at CEI.

Once again, corboy has nailed it.

The only things that I would add are that:

1). Even when you say "no," if you continue to hang out with your bf/gf/boss, they are likely to try to install bits and pieces of their software when your back is turned.  Graduates have a tendency to take on L.E. methods of dealing with people,  so you pick up "fleas."

2). If you go as far as to sign up for the forum, and sign the consent form, they seem to take that as a green light for ANYTHING they can come up with, not just the description of what the course allegedly IS. 

If you later back out, (I see it's not for me, thanks), rather than backing off, they might actually become MORE aggressive. They did with me.

If I may, I like to add what I see about Love and Sex in Gratitude Training, which is same as Life Spring and Landmark, yes?

I also see marriages fall apart. I see many senors in the training playing with attendees, married and single. And I see them turn blind eyes on them playing with each other.

They push people to be intimate with each other. This is what I notice. People share things with strangers, that they used to only share with their partner. They hold hands and do eye gazing and they talk about their partner with each other like their partner has been baggage. Or garbage. And they smile and support each other while doing it. In the stretches they strip down to wearing nothing. They rub against each other laughing and crying like maniacs. I think they don't get that druggie high when they are in their marriage. it can make a regular marriage seems dull I think.

They decide that their familia is just not what they are committed to anymore. Intimacy is spread to anyone. It is encouraged. Even straight women and men are worn down to be bi-sexual or turn gay.

I ask about the trainers in Gratitude Training before I leave. All have very trouble in past. Addiction, divorce, child neglect, emotional issues, sexual confusion. All them are swingers. I guess they introduce it to others to feel better about themselves.

I ask my friends and familia, if you know all this, why you want to learn from these people?! They don't know. They really don't know.

Freda_last

I agree with everything you have said. I would try to explain to my ex how I felt about the intimacy encouraged with his fellow participants who also happen to be people he works with. I didn’t think it was healthy for our relationship that he would talk to them about his inner most thoughts and feelings but stopped talking to me about them.

His attitude now does seem to be that he has developed a God like complex that gives him the right to do what he wants - no questions asked.