Re: Inner Gratitude Training Message:- Drugs, Corruption and Predators
Date: October 26, 2017 01:18AM
This come with the email. I think it is comments on the post. I not understand much of it. But looks like many say Gratitude Training is no good. They agree with Cas in her post. So many drug and sex addicts need help there. So many of them that were doing better go back to bad ways because of Gratitude Training. Keep your familia away from this place.
K.A. - 100% agree
Cas Lee I wasn't speaking on your experience. I was sharing my experience . When people show up to events, high, track marks, nodding off, popping pills, and whatever else.. I'm sorry it's not ok with me. I'm just stating my concerns and that I wouldn't enroll anyone into the trainings. I'm happy you had a great experience
W.M. (PRED) - And it's real to you. I don't see why people feel the need to "coach" you or throw in that Jargon to make it sound right.
You go girl! I see you and I hear you!
Cas, I've seen it, like many other have. Including the people out of integrity in a position to lead others. Wtf? Ground rule 6 being broken by seniors and captains. Only to get a slap on the wrist.
Sooooo let's just call it "suggestion #6" right? Look, the trainings are great. The trainers are great. It's when you add individual interpretations that it all goes to shit.
And I've asked the same.
How do these people who are borderline homeless, cheating, and owing people money going to lead anyone to greatness when they can't do it in their own lives?!
I can keep going.....again. I love these trainings. And I'm also ok with staying away.
M.L.J. - Miguel Delemos addict, my friend, died in between part 1 and part 2 he felt empty the night before when I saw him just waiting for part 2, he didn't make it he was found in a bathroom.....just saying.
L.R.D. - That’s sad. I have witnessed that addict or not... that’s why it’s important to support them in continuing on
K.C. - I share your thoughts and honor your honesty. Brave post my friend.
N.A. - The trainings are only a perfect representation of the real world. The struggles you’re facing here in the community can only be because they are in life- The trainings are a microcosm of the outside world. Seniors and staff aren’t “better”- I’m not better- I’m not superior. I may have some valuable tools I can share. But so what? We need to check ourselves as grads. Trainers, torch, whatever..... there is def some hierarchical shit going on.... and I make up that it contributes to the energy you’re experiencing. We need to humble ourselves- being a stand isn’t being better- it’s being the space for others greatness as a channel- there’s no room for the ego there. Let’s stop putting people on pedestals in the trainings and in life- do not worship false idols. The training is simply a tool to open possibility. A neutral tool. It is not a safe space nor is it a destructive space- it’s simply a space. Thank you for making me think about this. Thank you for holding us each accountable for what we put in the space. However- unless we want to run this community like a government it will ebb and flow as we show up as a whole.
F.R. (TRAINER) - Casandra, I love and respect you a lot. You and I have spoken about this and I assure you, your voice is heard. I am the daughter of an alcoholic and I know the pain and horror of relapse and recommitting over and over again. I experience so much pain when someone dies from an overdose, and I am sure we as individuals, the gt community, and the world at large need to keep learning and figuring something out, and communicating because there is a big problem. Please call me or text me. You have my number.
C.L. - I mean what about something so simple like following through with the rules about drugs and alcohol on weekends?? I mean I have heard and seen with my own eyes this happeneing.. and I feel like the rules and request fall on deaf ears .. I fucking love what I got out of gratitude training.. it changed my life forever and enhanced my recovery in ways I can't even explain.. but there are no repercussions for something as simple as following rules around this topic, during actual weekends
F.R. (TRAINER) - Cas Lee can we talk about this via voice so I can be clear? I really care about what you are saying.
L.R.D. - Same Cas. I hear you and have my own experience I’d like to share. Thank you for your authenticity and passion. I adore you and you know It! Experience It all. Lean in & feel Every morsel.
F.R. (TRAINER) - As a Trainer and the Training Director of the Gratitude Training, and as a woman and a human being, I/we say over and over that we are not experts at recovery.... to work your program.... get a sponsor, do what works and keep doing it! We say we have no judgement on you, we can't force you to be committed, and use all of your teams in life to support you. I think recovering addicts are the BEST example of Level 7 commitment. And my biggest wish is to add joy. All of my love.
M.H. - Francine, I think the statement you made is kind of part of the problem that is being spoken about. I am not involved with gt, but have had my own dilemma when i went through the trainings with summit. Yes, it is on the person to make the right choice for themselves, but the message of grattitiude is diametrically opposed to the solution that is most commonly found through a 12 step program. If someone's own family begging them to go to meetings and get a sponsor don't work, what makes you think the business side of the trainings or some random person that is newly introduced into someone's life is going to all.of the sudden be the voice of reason that makes someone call their sponsor?
The message of The training is that I am the sole and uncontested author of my life, the solution that is.most widely found in a 12 step meeting is to turn ones will and life over to a higher power and let It sail the ship. These opposing messages are going to be extremely hard to straighten out in someone's mind that is newly sober.
if you are speaking as Training Director of The Gratitude Training, is the official stance to just tell people to work their program? People have said they've been told they can drink etc by those representing the trainings. I think that it would be unscrupulous at best to say, we have done our part by telling people to just work your program, absolving Gratitiude of any responsibility. If you say to just do what works, what happens if the message being taught by the training is in conflict with the message of recovery?
F.R. (TRAINER) - M.H. you are inaccurate that our messages are opposed, that we are unscrupulous, and that we are responsible for other people's recovery . When people are committed to their recovery they do what works. The trainings never say that addiction isa choice nor do we advocate for people to drink. In the case of people working a program, being the author of your life means you surrender to your disease and choose your recovery! I can't make anyone "work their program." I can support people in having their commitments turn out to the best of my ability. If you are interested in truly understanding the gratitude context as it relates to recovery, please come to the meeting on October 26.
B.D. - With the deepest gratitude I will share that I am a couple weeks shy of ten years in recovery.
A few years ago when I did the trainings, there was a requirement (strong suggestion?) of having at least one year clean for anyone in recovery before taking part 1. I don't know if that is the case anymore, but I saw many exceptions even when this was still a rule.
I think the initial emotional high and seeming power of the trainings can cause some confusion for people in recovery. I remember feeling like GT was the "next level" of my growth /recovery journey. In a sense, it was another level of spiritual growth but NOT a replacement for continuing to be involved in AA and work that program too. Initially I thought it could be a good replacement and let GT consume my time at the expense of AA.
I don't think the trainings or community encourage relapse. Aside from the people actually in recovery, I don't find that recovery is well supported or understood by the community either. However, I think there are many people who truly do not understand addiction. A few years back there was a fairly respected member of the GT community trying to convince a friend of mine that addiction was a mere choice. He had no experience with addiction but was speaking it like a truth. A clear lack of comprehension on the nature of addiction.
That's not the only time I have heard the "addiction is a choice" argument. It often comes from people who have no true experience with it. It's also a good example of the tools of of the training being mistaken for reality and misused.
With regard to the integrity and qualifications of those staffing, I absolutely agree with your concerns.
S.P. - THIS!!! Out of every single post I've read, this!!!! The time committed shifts away from AA commitments during ML and the choice conversation can be a confusing combo.
Also watched ML journeys where captains we're in active relapse and destroying their lives and calling in their commitments while half the team was dropping out. Talk about source.
D.H. - How is this different then the 13 step? I find less people take advantage of new members of Gratitude Trainings than in 12 step programs. However both programs have the principle of forgiveness and no matter how far down the scale you have gone you can see where you experience benefits others. I personally don’t agree with sleeping with newcomers and it happens but I don’t publicly say I wouldn’t invite someone to a meetings. Call you sponsor if you have one.
M.H. - I am not involved with gt, but have had my own dilemma when i went through the trainings with summit. Yes, it is on the person to make the right choice for themselves, but the message of grattitiude is diametrically opposed to the solution that is most commonly found through a 12 step program. If someone's own family begging them to go to meetings and get a sponsor don't work, what makes you think the business side of the trainings or some random person that is newly introduced into someone's life is going to all.of the sudden be the voice of reason that makes someone call their sponsor?The message of The training is that I am the sole and uncontested author of my life, the solution that is.most widely found in a 12 step meeting is to turn ones will and life over to a higher power and let It sail the ship. These opposing messages are going to be extremely hard to straighten out in someone's mind that is newly sober.
R.H. - Cas. I frickin' love you.
Did the training test my recovery? Hell yes.
Did I almost relapse during ML? Again Yes.
Was I coached by teammates/others about making powerful choices to be able to drink responsibly? Yes
Did I do so? No I did not. (Thank HP)
Was it suggested by my sponsor and my imo that I should consider dropping out when it felt like it was too much. Yes.
I did not because I had a loving support network, including you and several others on the thread as well as other team mates to hold me high and love me through those growing pains.
I do not know what the answer is but I know that my experience would not have been the same without you to help keep me safe and create that safe space for me to take me power back.
J.O.M. - Wow Bro... People on our team told you you could drink responsibly, that it was a powerful choice?
R.H. - Yep. Some people do not understand the nature of addiction or the consequences that would have resulted from that choice.
L.W. - thats exactly what we are talking about! People in the trainings, whether operating as staff or student, should be coached on not giving advice or coaching about drinking or using or whether or not kava is a drug, etc! In fact, I would submit that it be a ground rule.
M.R. - I woke up thinking about this post. I've read all of your comments. Thank you Cas Lee for bringing this up honestly and authentically. I have also experienced at times dishonesty, poor choices( from my perspective) and a lack of commitment to what people say that they want. I am far from being perfect, regardless of how people might see me. I don't know much about addiction. This though is the beauty and brilliance behind the training. It is designed for anyone and everyone. We are all on our own journeys. We all have our experiences in life. Yet we we know what unites us. Love is the glue. I have learned so much from these trainings. I realize that people will still be people. So when I see that people aren't keeping their word, I can close my eyes, or I can choose to hold people high and call them on their shit. I know that being my word is where everything begins. I also know that I can come from a place of responsibility, meaning I can be the source of shift in people. Or, I can run away and not get involved. I now would rather choose to be the source. This is why I keep coming back. I really am committed to being THAT person who impacts others. I choose to be responsible. Am I perfect? Nope. Do I fuck up at times? Hell yes. I'm human. I still judge people. That is my nerd. I'm getting better at becoming aware that I am judging, and shift back to loving people. I truly believe that I alone can shift the world by being me and loving others. I can't stop enrolling people into these trainings nor can I stop being involved because I know deep down that the better awareness and understanding I have of these distinctions and concepts, the more effective I am as a human being. And life is all about results. And enrollment . And team. You are all on my team. I am committed to a world that is loving peaceful and abundant where everyone gets that they matter. I can't stop until everyone gets this. I am responsible. I also derive strength and guidance from the principles of mastery. These principles always seem to bring me back on track. I hope one day those of you that stay away would consider how you might be the person to shift someone else's life by coming back. I would love to see you and reconnect. Cas Lee?
J.N. - I 100% agree with you. I have made this argument a million times and it’s one of the reasons they will not let me senior. I am not context for neutrality in this at all.
I have been saying over and over you are going to kill people if you don’t take control of the problem. It’s a matter of time where someone will die in the trainings because they over dosed. I specialize in trauma and addiction. I know the trainings are extremely dangerous to a kind that’s riddled with trauma. It’s too much.
Then we couple it with a ton of drug use from other people tons of drinking and partying and you have yourself the perfect storm.
I also agree most People do not have their life in integrity but they get to staff a million times. I don’t really get that part either.
Here’s what I eventually Came up with. It doesn’t matter. Unless it is an absolute there is no drug or alcohol use this won’t stop. Gratitute has made it ok to do whatever they want. Some people do not know how to handle being awake. It makes them literally crazy.
I can only say that they need to manage a strict policy on it. And also I think there should be a transformational AA program for people to attend as a side thing to keep them
On track. That’s the responsible thing to do
I think there needs to be sober coaches in transformation
I think there needs to be support for those in early recovery. Or even late recovery
It’s an on going process and it needs separate support that’s not in the trainings.
But in the end it is the responsibility of the person to keep their sobriety and people to educate themselves on trauma and addiction. This can be a safe environment for everyone.
L.R.D. - Create that Jennifer Nicole. In the past there were some ‘meetings’ that were for addicts/alcoholics and transformational work. Clearly it’s been a slippery slope for some. Lessons learned. People do die. A microcosm for what’s out there. I am sure you would get massive support in this
M.B. - Cas Lee- good. I am with you. I must be missing something though- when I did ML, you had to sign something (before even walking into part 1!) saying you had been sober for at LEAST a year. Has this changed? The trainings do not exclude former drug addicts, but they are absolutely not intended to be used as, or instead of, a drug rehab program (last I heard anyway.) So, did I miss something here?
I have personally witnessed a fellow grad enroll their (then) significant other into the training. The significant other was addicted... to crack! I knew it, and the Grad knew it. When I brought up my concerns, they were dismissed. I even considered contacting Jo or Francine to express my deep concerns. I didn't, and the addicted person dropped out of part 1 on the first day, while my fellow Grad was "so shocked!" I mean, really? REALLY? Maybe someone already mentioned this (and undoubtedly saying this will NOT be popular!) AND holding the majority of events, fundraisers, etc at a Kava / Kratom bar is an issue. I saw it in my own ML. A person started drinking Kava & Kratom and promptly relapsed. That was four years ago. From what I know, the person is still using... and still frequents Kava Bars because so many Grads and fundraisers are held there. (For the record, I used to work at a Kava bar - that also sold Kratom - in NC. Both substances help so many people... AND I've seen numerous customers relapse or try to commit suicide after they had relapsed.) The addiction is the issue, not necessarily what they use or what makes them relapse. With that said- with so many former addicts in the community, surely holding events / fundraisers at these sort of places is inconsiderate, at best.
Cas, I have also witnessed WAY too many people held up as "givers" and "pillars of the community" go around f***ing any available grad or student in the trainings... WHILE they were: married, in a "committed relationship," their girlfriend was pregnant with their child, etc etc. Yes, people make mistakes... AND in the example above, I'm talking about one person. ONE person, who chose (and is most likely STILL choosing, who knows) to do this, repeatedly. But hey, what does it matter? This person is a person OF INTEGRITY, YO! SMH. I've been on the verge of enrolling people or declaring to staff, and then.... No. Nope. How can I enroll someone into playing a game - in good conscience - when I know so many seniors that aren't practicing what they preach? How can I - in good conscience - sign up to staff when I can hardly get my laundry done or get out of bed? For that matter, how dare people that KNOW these daily struggles I face try to "enroll" me into staffing? I don't know what the word for all this is, but it's definitely NOT "integrity." Ah, sorry for the rant and making this about my personal experience. I hear you, I get what you're saying, I agree with you... and I'm sending you a f*** yeah! for the balls to say it
W.M. (PRED) - Instead we get people who do the training, learn the Jargon and suddenly become prophets, transformational philosophers and narcissistic gurus who "quote" themselves.
My idea and interpretation of a "coach" is not a trainer nor a coach. We are simply holding the students within the context of the training. A bumper so to speak. The jargon is great and it's misused so often.
It's not meant to go into the world sounding like a robot. It's used for effective and direct communication. Not to mumble a bunch of words that don't mean anything.
B.R. - Staffing and senioring gets to be cleaned up thank you for your honesty and feedback