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rrmoderator
Wright Again:

I have never encountered drug induced psychosis linked to an LGAT.

This type of group can produce psychosis withou drugs and many participatnts have susequently required the care of doctor and in extreme cases some have been hospitalized.

But in such situations that I know of no one was found to have been given drugs during through the LGAT.

The manipulation within an LGAT, its dynamics and methodology can produce psychosis without drugs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The most recent medical report about psychosis following EST or LGAT is dated from 1983, more than 20 years ago! Why can't we find anything more recent? Why is the medical community indifferent to the problematic? In the 1983 paper, it is noted that psychotic events following LGAT are rare. Is that really so?

More complaints of mental meltdowns have come in to me in recent years.

However, I am not aware of any study or research about them.

Two apparent psychotic breaks were reported about connected to murders. The killers were linked to Landmark.

There is the case against Jason Weed and Landmark. Note that in this article:
[www.culteducation.com]
it says the lawyer in the Oklahoma case, Gaylon C. Hayes, says they plan to re-open the case.

Also, the France 3 documentary about Landmark investigates some cases of psychosis. Hopefully, an English translation of this documentary is on the way.
[board.culteducation.com]

Kate--I am sorry to hear about your sister---if she had any kind of suffering in her past and spoke about it Landmark, it's likely they told her she had wanted that suffering and was, essentially her responsibility. The speakers tend to abuse people who have been victims of violence etc. and praise thos who victimize for being "honest" and having "integrity." So it's very confusing morally--and abusive tactics are used to create intensity and pressure on individuals. It's the reverse of compassion,, empathy or the belief in a caring God. It's amoral--or worse (in my opinion). Very bullying.

My ex husband attended a Landmark Forum at the urging a woman he;d recently met, who was a graduate. Afterwards, he called me, sobbing. I was immediately sympathetic--thinking perhaps someone had died because he'd left frantic messages that there had been a "significant" event over the weekend. The event was that he decided to tell me, whiel recovering from cancer and recent brain surgery, that he had lies and slept with a lot women from before he met me and throughout our marriage--and that I had, in fact, known some of them and they'd been to our house. I have felt devastated. He did this so he cna be a "man of honor and integrity" and has no remorse for his behavior and lacks empathy for the hurt he caused because on some level, I wanted it--just like I wanted cancer, just like woman who's raped secretly "wants it." He said it's all about rackets and there is no abuse--it's just the way someone "interprets" it. Perpetrators are okay if they come clean, but victims can't be tolerated because people choose suffering.

Tha Landmark Forum would be a great organization to spearhead abuse and cruelty to others in the name of "honor and integrity." People with physical problems are usually not allowed to attend, which I think speak volumes in terms of the unhealthy tactics. You don't see churches or reputable counselors turning away people with physical ailments. In my opinion, Landmark is an emotionally and mentally and even physically destructive forum, geared toward narcissistic pursuits---it will teach you not to let anyone (husband, wife, children, parents) get in your way. Ideal for the budding or full-blown anti-social personality or greedy corporation.
Annie

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Perpetrators are okay if they come clean, but victims can't be tolerated because people choose suffering

When I did the training, and I have heard that this question arises in almost every training, someone invariably asks if the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust.

Their boilerplate reply is that "this question always comes up" then they move on without answering the question. The will NOT answer this question, no matter how hard you press. The will get busy "making you wrong" for not being satisfied with their response, and then they'll use their time tested dodge, we don't have time, we've got to move on, we'll come back to that.... relax about it, they won't come back to this question.

They have absolutely no sense of "personal ecology". Even NLP pays a degree of attention to congruity and ecology issues. LEC people can't even define the concept of congruity. Congruity is a core part of real therapeutic practice, good psychologists spend entire lifetimes mastering congruity skills. Note: if you fail to discern whether someone's response is congruent on deep levels of that person, you have no clue whether you're helping them or profoundly damaging them. If you have no sense of Ecology, how change processes will affect that person's entire life system, their family dynamics, their relationships with their community, one can do extrordinary harm in the name of "forwarding the action" (their meaningless phrase).... you must understand one of their central tenets: that life is only moved forward by "unreasonable" people willing to do "unreasonable" things.... they gave us a long lecture on the critical importance of "letting go of being reasonable"... in their formula, "reasonable"= weak, ineffective, and worst of all, "inauthentic".... the newly minted Self must, above all be Authentic !!!! A certain contingent of trainess out there has difficulty distinguishing between being Authentic and being a Total Asshole who "shares" authentically and unreasonably.... and they are surprised that they get the results they do ?

Thank you for the insights and your words Annie. I reamin pretty angry about these types of courses. The State Police are continuing to investigate my sister's case but I am not very hopeful it will deliver a clear outcome. There may be a Cornial inquest. Best wishes, Kate

I'm curious as to why certain religious groups or religious affiliated groups haven't investigated Landmark--not that I am a proponent of Focus on the Family, but you'd think they's jump all over Landmark. I don't know how my kids are going to relate to their dad anymore because "he's not there" anymore. He claims he's had out-of-body, experiences of disassociation and it kind of scares me. He lives in 1000 miles away from us but I get the impression (form him anyway) that this hasn't affected his job or anything and I don't know how you can disassociate and be effective at work. He has already started his 10 week seminar and the Landmark woman than he became engaged to apparently isn't bothered by his history of addiction (which he says is just a "story" jsut as alcohol addiction is a "story") and pathological lying (about degrees, what he does, ---it was a 24/7 thing) because she thinks Landmark can or has changed all of these behaviors, literally overnight. He said it was like in The Matrix where he took a pill and the world immediately changed and pointed out that the people who wither wrote or produced The Matrix were Landmark devotees. Has anyone else hear this?

The Matrix was written by the Wachowski brothers, Andy and Larry. Larry was deeply into the S&M scene which accounts for the fascination with tight leather clothing in the matrix series. Larry was an afficionado of ritual torture administered by his favorite dominatrix, Karin Winslow, to the extent that he left his wife and took up with Karin, and supports Karin in style, you could say.

Larry's wife, Thea, was dumped for Karin, and now Thea is forcing Larry to reveal his true financial situation via the courts:

"Larry has been extremely dishonest with me in our personal life," she says, "and I believe he is hiding information from me regarding our financial affairs."


"I confronted him about the companies having received almost $16million (£10m) which I didn't know about. He admitted they'd received large amounts but that there was hardly any left."


"He has no understanding of his legal obligations to me and now wants me to co-operate in his purchase of a $2.7million (£1.6m) home in San Francisco."

Larry also appears to be undergoing a regimen of estrogen hormones to bring about a sex change, his appearance has been radically altered by whatever it is he is taking. Old friends don't recognize him.

But, hey, it's all good. He's AUTHENTIC..... and that's what counts!

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anniebee
I'm curious as to why certain religious groups or religious affiliated groups haven't investigated Landmark

In a perfect world anniebee, they would. But I think they are asleep at the wheel in large part. People get involved, start acting different, and no one asks why, or just says "good for you" in the spirit of "I'm OK you're OK." Despite the changes it causes in people, others don't look deep enough to connect the dots. People are afraid to confront. It just isn't nice! :wink: We need some ass-kickers in the church, for sure.

Keep in mind Landmark is very aggressive using lawsuits to intimidate into silence anyone who says boo about Landmark. Only those with deep pockets or understanding and devoted pro bono lawyers can fight back.

Your spirit is right though. LGATs need to be exposed, regardless of who does it.

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anniebee
He said it was like in The Matrix where he took a pill and the world immediately changed and pointed out that the people who wither wrote or produced The Matrix were Landmark devotees. Has anyone else hear this?

The Matix is big with Lekkies. Through my friend I heard that it is common to have Matrix parties where they watch all three back to back. The LGATs see themselves as the free people, and the rest of us poor souls as the pod people. The "pill" they gladly ingest only gives them access to the programming of the LGAT. That is supposed to be freedom??

Interestingly enough there are Christian groups who also use The Matrix to explain the gospel, and I can understand why. This points out how similar the messages are at a basic level. Obviously, they end up in much different places philosophically. That immediate common ground, however, may also explain why religious groups don't immediately see a danger in LGAT involvement -- until it is too late.

-lightwolf

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Keep in mind Landmark is very aggressive using lawsuits to intimidate into silence anyone who says boo about Landmark. Only those with deep pockets or understanding and devoted pro bono lawyers can fight back.

Any documentation on this ? I mean supressive actions taken by LEC against newspapers, magazines, televised or radio media that have said critical things about Landmark, EST, or Erhard ? In law, truth is an "absolute defense"... if they really said it or did it, they can't stop you from exposing them. Kind of charming how fast they backpedalled their action against Rick Ross once the ugly possibility of extensive discovery proceedings reared its horned little head.... I'm sure Art Schreiber, General Counsel, is busily reading these forums as we write them....

Interesting thing Art Schreiber said a while back, on June 19, 1996:

"Landmark Education is not est. Landmark Education was formed in February, 1991 and is an employee-owned company which offers educational courses in 12 countries, including the Netherlands. est was not turned into Landmark Education and does not give courses under the name Forum. The Landmark Forum delivered by Landmark Education is not the est Training "

Which, of course, may be technically true.... but rather curiously hinges on this bit of language....

"est was not turned into Landmark Education"

Don't you love how they use that coy little "e" in est ? It's so refreshingly unpretentious, so..... so.... ummmm, "real"

But, where were we, Oh, right, "est was not turned into Landmark Education"....

Soooooo..... Mister Schreiber, Esq., how then DID Landmark Education come into being ? Did it materialize in the middle of an empty room, training manuals and everything ? Where then DID the prinicpal actors in Landmark Education come from ? Were any of the offices or facilities used by "est" then used by LEC ? You can imagine these folks in the hands of a relentless New York litigator, guys who will depose EVERYBODY, for hours at a time ? Comb through their internal documents ? Track down anybody and everybody and get their sworn statements.....

Maybe not such a good idea after all....