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elena
Some of the old timers talk about the "desensitization" practices they had to endure during the "Advanced" course where they are surrounded with the most vile pornographic images during lengthy lectures. This is meant to degrade the idea of sex into another "empty & meaningless" event so that it can be re-formed or ~transformed~ into the Landmarkian version, I believe.

Ellen

Wow -- this is eye-opening! :shock: I took this from the "Too late to help" thread for I think it's worth a thread of it's own. I know these guys are bad, but holy crap!

Would some of the 'old timers' say more about this? I'm interested to know what other things they were desensitized to, what the pornography was about, etc. Did this occur in other courses too? I am fascinated to learn what they do to these poor people in these courses, and even more by the fact people put up with it. It helps arm me with info to give to those thinking about LGATs.

Thanks

-lightwolf

I would love to know more as well. I can tell you that the woman I was involved with was so matter of fact and flippant about sex that it was just bizarre. I have never been with anyone who behaved like this.

Hi lightwolf,


A few years ago on alt.fan.landmark there was talk about "sex night" during the "6-Day," which was precursor to the "Advanced Course." Sadly, most of the old timers have quit posting (at least to afl), for which I wouldn't blame them. Also, this was a different time - before the swing back towards a more proscriptive cultural environment. The 1970s were pretty free-wheeling. And acceptance of certain questionable behavior was a "top-down" phenomenon when Werner Erhard was in charge. As a guru, his behavior was considered exemplary and earlier esties were noted for their hare-like proclivities. As some wag observed, "They rut like bunnies." Though Werner is long gone and his clones are aging and falling by the wayside, there is still considerable adherence to his memory and style. Some insiders refer to him in reverent whispers as "the Founder" or "the ~Source.~" I don't think there is any doubt he is still considered the "spiritual" chief or is still pulling the strings from the Cayman Islands.

(It might be interesting to note that Mormon women are instructed and encouraged to enjoy and engage in sex often with their husbands which serves two excellent cult purposes; tends to keep men motivated and "in the fold," and makes lots more Mormons.)



Ellen

Speaking of WE, aka JR, I think I remember reading somewhere that he gets half of the before tax profits of LE and that the "technology" reverts to him in a few years. I am not sure where I read it, other than it was on the internet, but I know I did. Is it true? And if so that site needs to be posted.

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A few years ago on alt.fan.landmark there was talk about "sex night" during the "6-Day," which was precursor to the "Advanced Course." Sadly, most of the old timers have quit posting (at least to afl), for which I wouldn't blame them. Also, this was a different time - before the swing back towards a more proscriptive cultural environment. The 1970s were pretty free-wheeling. And acceptance of certain questionable behavior was a "top-down" phenomenon when Werner Erhard was in charge.

This must make me and old timer. Yup I was there for sex night on the 6 day course and a whole heap of other experiential jewels in addition to that.

What I also heard from folks I met in the hills behind Santa Cruz, CA was that in the earliest days of EST, really before there was an EST, Jack Rosenberg was intrigued by ritual magick (not stage magic which is more properly called illusionism) where he and his close followers would try to "manifest" some kind of spirit energies and direct it for their purposes. Apparantly ritual magick also uses intense, obsessive sexual activity as an important part of its ceremonial practices.

One of the warnings that is given to practitioners of ritual magick is that if they do their cermonial acts precisely right they will gain tremendous power over the WILL (make note of that idea) of other people, however, if they don't do them right, the force they unleash will gain tremendous power over them.

Wouldn't it be ironic if all this time Jack Rosenberg has been possessed by a disembodied psychic force that calls itself Werner Erhard that got into him because he messed up his incantations ?

I finally found something about WE and the profits. I don't see a date. Is this site reliable? The article says that WE is assured half of the pretax profits each quarter and that the "technology" reverts to him in 2009.

[www.metroactive.com]

For some info, see an archived page from werner-erhard.com from 2001 when it was still obviously a page from
the Landmark web site before they changed the copyright to "Friends of Werner Erhard". (How
can Landmark claim they are not devoted to Werner when it pays the registration for werner-erhard.com?)
[web.archive.org]
On this page it says "In 1991, the employees formed their own company, Landmark Education, obtained a license for the use of the technology".
Note that it says "licensed". On the current page, they have watered this down:
[werner-erhard.com]
In only says "His former employees started a company of their own called Landmark Education. Erhard's original thinking and the processes developed from it are found updated and further developed in the programs of Landmark Education."
(It's a reasonable suspicion that the payment for the professional makeover of werner-erhard.com came from Landmark and not the fictitious "Friends of Werner Erhard".)
Anyway, it appears werner-erhard.com is Landmark disinformation, a site to show the "official" Werner Erhard story that hides the current link to Landmark.
In other places it says the license was for 18 years. 1991 + 18 = 2009, so that's where people get the "second coming" for 2009.

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nutrino

Wouldn't it be ironic if all this time Jack Rosenberg has been possessed by a disembodied psychic force that calls itself Werner Erhard that got into him because he messed up his incantations ?

LOL...the ultimate irony for ol' Werner - a victim of his own ~creation.~


What you've written reminds me of the stories of L. Ron Hubbard and his buddy, Jack Parsons (of Cal Tech and JPL) who were practicing satanism in Parson's mansion in Pasadena and decided to "conjure up" the whore of Babylon. There's a recounting of this sordid episode in California history in Mike Davis's "City of Quartz."


Ellen

It's pretty clear that both Scientology and EST have strong connections with occultism. LEC appears to have toned down the most overtly preposterous aspects of their occultic thinking while retaining the core philosophy... each being is "at cause" of the totality of his or her experience, which brings us to their imbecile war chant "So What"... werner used to drive a black Mercedes Benz with vanity plates that read SO WUT... no matter how bad things got, how much personal suffering you experienced, So What ? You just don't have the guts to acknowledge that you were at cause all along... poor little worm, one day you'll understand.

Not surprisingly, this hairy chested lowbrow existentialism was nowhere to be seen when Werner was defrocked in the 60 minutes episode. If he had had the guts to stand up and declare that in spite of the trauma that the segment had inflicted on his bloated ego and muster the famed So What ?, this is my reality, I created it on some level, and I take full unconditional responsibility for it... I might have retained an iota of respect for the man.. but, alas, such candor and fortitude was not to be witnessed...

Instead we got a rather pathetic apologia written by one Jane Self, PhD, and published by a house no one has ever heard of, Breakthru Press (note the cheezy spelling) which is now the house "this explains everything" book about the martyrdom of St. Werner a the hands of despicable Scientologists. So wrong, so unfair. Of passing interest, Mr. Erhard never got around to persuing any credible legal action in response to this broadcast, and he sure had access to the best legal talent money could buy. He wanted to protect his family from further humiliation, you see. As if being vindicated in court wouldn't be the best course for restoring his good name and the dignity of the Erhard coat of arms ? Naaaaaah.

Do the easy thing, bail for the Caymans, pretend it never happened, all that high integrity stuff.

LOL...


You're surprised that a con-man would do a ~disappearing~ act? Or justify it using his family, who were never more than props or supporting cast anyway.


And yet it really is funny that so few Landmark/est acolytes would even acknowledge the hypocrisy.


....Or would be funny if not for the trail of (real) victims he left in his wake.


What brings you to our board? And welcome, by the way. Have you posted or written anything about your experience elsewhere?



Ellen