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lightwolf
One of the concepts that she raised was "Potentially Endearing Qualities." These are things you don't accept in your partner (such as annoying behaviors, incommunicativity, whatever) but should learn to. ...

This of course would eventually lead to a "breakdown" (Landmark term).

Lightwolf,

Would you say that, if someone is doing the RELATIONSHIP SEMINAR is in a relationship with someone who is reluctant to participate and do the LF, the participant will be told to accept his/her partner "as is", which means "refuse to talk about the real problems" because after all it's a "Potentially Endearing Quality"(!?).

One such problem will be "Landmark" of course. Therefore, any arguing about Landmark taking to much of your partner's life and intruding into your life and relationship in a negative way, etc... simply cannot be discussed! The lack of communication will then lead to a "breakdown" (could you elaborate on this ... what is the Landmarkian definition), which means the relationship might very well "break down".

This would be a very subtle way to say "If your partner loves you, he will do the LF..." meaning "If your partner doesn't do the LF, there is no point because there is no communication".

Is that a fair assessment?

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midonov123
Would you say that, if someone is doing the RELATIONSHIP SEMINAR is in a relationship with someone who is reluctant to participate and do the LF, the participant will be told to accept his/her partner "as is", which means "refuse to talk about the real problems" because after all it's a "Potentially Endearing Quality"(!?). ?

Hi Mike,
Your questions are on point -- aren't critical thinking skills great? :)

I don't know exactly what they are told; I can only go on how I was related to, and what she shared. She mentioned that the "I accept you as you are" concept (which before Landmark perverts it isn't a bad thing) is taught, and her frequent repitition of it as a script strongly supports this. Beside this is the push for enrollment we're all familiar with. Then comes the PEQ talk in RELATIONSHIPS, and I'm sure this causes cognitive dissonance for those who are in relationship with someone who refuses the LF. I'm sure Landmark doesn't stop pushing enrollment just to "accept" someone. She didn't stop recruiting me when she was in the seminar, because it would "give us something to share". But, I certainly saw the tension in my friend, even after she stopped recruiting me. To her credit she respected my wish and hasn't continued to recruit me.

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midonov123
One such problem will be "Landmark" of course.

This will be the bottom line for anyone with critical thinking skills and good mental boundaries who has someone in their life who becomes "transformed" in a LGAT. My own experience is that what leads to the breakdown of the relationship is the lack of common ground. An emotionally initimate relationship requires some shared territory, and with the introduction of Landmark re-wiring her belief system, we now have none. That's what led to our lack of communication -- I didn't want to hear about Landmark anymore (and since that became the foundation for her whole life there was nothing else to hear), and she didn't want to hear my philosophy anymore. What was left? The arguing is just a part of this. Bottom line is, as we all know: Someone has to convert. Either you go off to Landmark or they have to leave Landmark (or the relationship ends).

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midonov123
The lack of communication will then lead to a "breakdown" (could you elaborate on this ... what is the Landmarkian definition)

I don't know the exact Landmark defn. Maybe nettie or sonnie or Dynamix or someone can provide that. What it seemed to mean was a significant issue or problem which derailed the smooth flow of the relationship's growth. It appeared to be set opposite to "breakthrough."

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midonov123
This would be a very subtle way to say "If your partner loves you, he will do the LF..." meaning "If your partner doesn't do the LF, there is no point because there is no communication".

I would say it's not so subtle. Whether they say "there is no point" I don't know. But I think that it ends up there anyway on it's own.

Sorry I can't address your points directly, but thankfully I only have secondhand knowledge. I agree with the premise you have shared on this board -- A REAL relationship with someone in an LGAT is impossible. Casual friendship, maybe, not nothing emotionally intimate. LGATs delude people to "create their own reality", not deal with reality. Unless you share this, you're on different planets. (I guess John Gray would think that was OK.) :)

-lightwolf

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lightwolf
My own experience is that what leads to the breakdown of the relationship is the lack of common ground. An emotionally initimate relationship requires some shared territory, and with the introduction of Landmark re-wiring her belief system, we now have none. That's what led to our lack of communication -- I didn't want to hear about Landmark anymore (and since that became the foundation for her whole life there was nothing else to hear), and she didn't want to hear my philosophy anymore. What was left? The arguing is just a part of this. Bottom line is, as we all know: Someone has to convert. Either you go off to Landmark or they have to leave Landmark (or the relationship ends).

This is EXACTLY what led to my relationship to break down with my ex Landmarkian friend. I didn't want to hear about Landmark, she didn't want to listen to what I had to say either, and there was nothing else to say because Landmark was more important to her than anything else (including me). If that's not brainwashing, what else can it be?

So the bottomline in the RELATIONSHIP SEMINAR probably is about how to end a relationship with someone not in Landmark, or how to break your partner so that he "chooses" to participate ... or else ...

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So the bottomline in the RELATIONSHIP SEMINAR probably is about how to end a relationship with someone not in Landmark, or how to break your partner so that he "chooses" to participate ... or else ...

I doubt very much if this is offically said at any time however as we all know landmark has many underhanded manipulative and covert ways of getting the point across so it wouldn't suprise me if this was the underlying thread in the relationships seminar.

I can't speak too much on the seminar because I have never been in it. I had to register people into it and then I quit landmark

In answer to your question midonov whether Introduction leaders have to repeat the landmark forum every 2 years. the answer is yes as do all seminar, SELP, TMLP leaders and staff. no one pays to repeat it because it is a requirement.

I repeated the forum while on staff and it was a horrible experience. Iwas sick and away from home and had the forum leader telling me it was all in my head.

There is not a lot of difference. They all manipulate you. It's amazing that when you are in a cult or a group you don't see the scam. You have to take a step back. When you take that step back you will be able to see that they are all the same. Just a different package. I can understand that there are many, many cults, groups, churches and what-not. If you have learnt the workings of a cult - why don't make your own little group and cash in on the money? And when you have started going down that lane you will probably have a very hard time to get off.

I think most cultleaders are sociopaths. At least the very "good" ones. They will stop at nothing to get your mind and money.

-nettie

I was wondering what is the potential reaction to a LE person when a non LE person uses their language. Is it harmful? Would it be useful in getting a person out. Does it cause more confusion.

See [www.culteducation.com]

I found this on the landmark education homepage. It seems that they now reveal some of "the secrets" and it looks pretty harmless when looking at it this way. What they fail to mention is the way they indoctrinate you using mind control to belive all this stuff as it is the "truth"

[www.landmarkeducation.com]

I'm struggling with this question a lot. There seems to be an interest for the stuff even after many years. So it is true that it affects your
life long after you have been involved. Maybe for life. So it is a powerful
experience that you have a hard time forgetting about. Why is this?

Probably because it reaches way down into your personality and some of what you learn there is useful. The hard part is how to integrate the good stuff and get rid of the bad.

I used to throw everything away but found that to be no good...

I guess reading this message board is part of the process. Sometimes I wish I was still there - life seemed easily explained. As long as you lived by the rules.
But of course living by the rules become harder and harded the more involved you got.

nettie

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nettie
I'm struggling with this question a lot. There seems to be an interest for the stuff even after many years. So it is true that it affects your
life long after you have been involved. Maybe for life. So it is a powerful
experience that you have a hard time forgetting about. Why is this?

Probably because it reaches way down into your personality and some of what you learn there is useful. The hard part is how to integrate the good stuff and get rid of the bad.

I used to throw everything away but found that to be no good...

I guess reading this message board is part of the process. Sometimes I wish I was still there - life seemed easily explained. As long as you lived by the rules.
But of course living by the rules become harder and harded the more involved you got.

nettie

Nettie,

Have you read "The Wrong Way Home" by Arthur Deikman? If not, I highly recommend it.

Nice to hear from you again, by the way.


Ellen