FYI:

Landmark is in India. Here is an excerpt from a book describing Mumbai by journalist Suketu Mehta.

[books.google.com]

Few people in India would know about LGATs.

Most Americans regardless of educational level and social intelligence are not well enough informed about Indian spiritual and yogic charlatans to to run background checks on Indian gurus who arrive in America. We want to acculturate to Indian models of spiritual success.

Likewise most Indians and Non Resident Indians regardless of their educational level and business acumen are not well enough informed about American spiritual and transformational scams - and do not know enough to run background checks on motivational trainings and LGATs. They want to acculturate to American models of success

Landmark Education India - Google

[www.google.com]

Corboy,

First off, I believe my boss was being mindfucked from above. I believe she was also collaborating with her functional peers to mindfuck employees. The coach training facilitator, who shall go nameless, was aware of these strange calls, and the outrageous demands, was, in a way, collaborating.

I did at points try to ascertain whether my boss was merely a disorganized, micro-manager. I spoke with peers in other offices, and, they reported receiving the same treatment. They also reported overhearing teleconferences in which local GM's, all psychologists, coached each other in how to mindfuck employees. They co-developed strategies for doing this. It was organization-wide.

Gaslighting, indeed, describes what they were doing. They were also subjecting people to extreme stress, overnighters in the office, constant verbal abuse -- and very often not providing the information or training necessary to accomplish stated job requirements. In one case, they hired a Japanese to perform a sales function, and then would not provide him with product information or a history of client relationships. He ended up interviewing consultants to try to get this information.

I also saw them abuse executive coaching clients, frequently! Sessions could be as long as six hours and often entailed est-like verbal abuse. I could hear it coming through the walls.

Please help me figure this out.

Many of the psychologists employed by ABC company had come out of the same university program, and this consulting firm had been founded by a professor at this university. I never heard the word, 'est', but they were all using tactics described in this forum as being components of 'est' or 'Landmark' training.

Now, many of them are involved with the ICF, and, a recent ICF president is a product of the university mentioned above. Please note, this is not Harvard, or other institutions at which W.E. is known to have been 'appreciated'.

This is why I am saying that 'est' needs to be reframed as involving many organizations that are not directly associated with it. There is a larger entity or network involved.

Corboy,

The ICF mentor coach who defrauded me was an Indian from Mumbai. He had contacted me via Linkedin ostensibly to participate in a doctoral 'research' project. This I did. He then contacted me and offered to do coach training in Japan (English language).

I was uncomfortable from the moment he and his wife arrived in Japan. Don't know how to say it, but both were kind of glassy-eyed, and culty. He used strange terms as part of the training, terms that made no sense in a coaching context. I had a sense that he was involved with other scams, e.g. running a 'Yoga School'. I will look for the name of this 'endeavor' on his bio...

bakkagirl,

You wrote, "They also reported overhearing teleconferences in which local GM's, all psychologists, coached each other in how to mindfuck employees. They co-developed strategies for doing this. It was organization-wide."

Isn't this malpractice? Don't psychologists have a governing board that you can report them to? (I'm pretty sure they do in the U.S.). I know that the psychiatric/psychological associations have a code of ethics, and have deemed certain practices unethical, such as what was done in the Milgram Experiment and Stanford Prison Experiment. This governing board would be outside of the whole ICF hierarchy, which is, of course, necessary.

This happened sometime ago. I believe that several of my Japanese colleagues reported this behavior to the APA. No action was taken, possibly owing to the fact that the complaints were coming from Japanese, from Japan, or owing to the fact that these psyches had friends on the board.

There was, at least, one legal action filed by a Japanese American employee object of this abuse.

I have a background in labor law, U.S. and Japanese, and kept a notebook of all I was seeing in 'the firm'. Hard to find legal counsel in Japan for this kind of thing so I had the dean of a local International Law program review my notes. He showed them to faculty of the law school, mostly the senior partners of big U.S. and U.K. law firms. They responded that 'the firm' had violated pretty much every statute in the Japanese, really any, labor code and had "committed crimes" for which there should be a law, but wasn't one yet. I was encouraged to seek legal counsel, but the law professors were not optimistic that a Japanese court could even fathom the dimension of this behavior.

Recently, this same firm has been positioning its psychs in senior leadership roles in the ICF. I believe there have been two 'Presidents' who have come from 'the firm'. Other firm psyches are now ICF mentor coaches. There is, definitely, a cross over of personnel.

The person who made the "Carl Rogers comment" is ex-firm. I would say the organizations have merged, in a way. These firm psyches are also affiliated in some way with the Ph.D's in the coaching program at my West Coast graduate school, who are now, also, mucky mucks in the ICF. This is why I say there is a deeper, or larger structure.

I believe that firm psyches, those involved with the executive coaching practice, had early contact with founders of the ICF, and, possibly with est/Landmark. I have heard them recently make apologetic statements about Landmark.

I had always thought these groups, the firm, the ICF were operating on totally different professional planes, but they seem to be flying on the same plane, if you know what I mean.

One other thought. Look how long it took for NXIVM to be investigated. The behavior of these people is FLORID, but, they are protected from high places.