the lgats in general and landmark
in particular preach to their victims
that there is no right or wrong.
u can see this in the people that
have attended. if u say that this
or that is wrong they come back
with there is no wrong.

what they never ever seem to realize
is that if u are being led by people
that preach they have no right or
wrong, then they can do anything
they please with u and if u cont
accept it , then it becomes your
racket. its quite a fantasic catch
22.

that is one of the most difficult
points to get across to people
that have been mind manipulated.

Yes - it's crazy-making behavior, the exact stuff my naturopath used. He was very much into Landmark technologies but didn't feel the need to let me or any of his patients know. So it was very covert manipulation. But he, like Werner Erhard and other LGAT leaders were very convincing. THere are still times when I hear people complaining about situations in their lives that I really have to resist the urge to tell THEM there is no right or wrong. The result of LGATs is a loss of feeling grounded - meaning any conventional sense of responsibility, values, even obligation. That's another big one with these types - if one is doing something out of a feeling of obligation, then they shouldn't be doing it at all. This is very similar to the influence narcissists have on their narcissistic supply. At first, it seems very liberating not to have any rules, no right, no wrong - so you can really do what you want. The thing is, like you pointed out, they can do anything they want to you too.

lets stop for a moment and think what
if anything could be a purpose for
the lgats besides empowering people


if u wish to believe that people like
werener are nice guys and are actually
attempting to help people then believe it.

but if u dont believe it what could be
their purpose. i believe its power.

landmark has managed to get itself
in our businesses. there are many
businesses that reimburse their employees
for taking the forum, possible other courses
too but the forum for certain.

i have had discussion with landmark
grads in the past and they have mentioned
in the past that

Chrysler
General Motors
Ford

are but three of the companies that reimburse
their employees for taking courses.
its very wide spread, and very main stream
now.

landmark even has forums for christian
clergy if u can believe it.
even clergy and im not sure how landmark
accomodates them differently than most
folks but i would bet that a lot of dirty filthy
talk is probably abset.

a few years ago landmark even had some
letters from christian clergy on their
website and the clergy were all spouting
how they "worship God profoundly"

imagine these clergy have been empowered
in terror and are so completely mind washed
like everybody else that attends that they
dont see that empowerment in terror is bad.
they believe it doesnt mean anything.

there are people in all walks of life in the
united states that have attended the forum
and est courses before that.
i believe the number is about 15 to 20 percent
of the population of the u s has attended.
that is a lot of people. and they have at least
one thing in common. they all believe landmark
has empowered them for good living.

its astonishing. so many people have been
made to feel good about themselves through
hypnosis, empowered in terror, told to forget
their past because it doesnt mean anything
and, indoctrinated with life has no meaning
etc etc .

no what.

what about all these people.

is there power there . absolutley, the power
is in the hands of the cults.

with eveything else that has been done to these
people do u actually believe that while under
hypnosis that something else was not put
there. power. in the future i believe that
landmark and the other cults have a mental
hold over their victims. this could be a base
for an incredible amount of power.

do u believe werner and hubbard were nice
guys, landmark is partially based on scientology. scientology is partially based
on satanic religion, amoung other things.
in scientology scriptures it states that
they (scientologists) have the right
to main, hurt, sue, kill anyone that gets
in their way as long as it promotes the
church.

landmark is a sect of scientology. u can
read Outrages Betrayal , as part of the
proof. it mentions werner taking scientology
jargon and changing a lot of it to suit
est. hubbard was a satanist. plain and
simple. that is the truth. to many people
this doesnt mean anything.

millions of people in the united states
are being empowered by some not so
nice people. it should mean something.


now imagine all of this has been going on
for many many years and most people u mention it too brush it off as insignificant.

what power the cults are creating not for their
clientele but for themselves.

maybe what the cults are preaching is coming
true.

maybe (human) life has no meaning

landmark is a sect of scientology. u can
read Outrages Betrayal , as part of the
proof. it mentions werner taking scientology
jargon and changing a lot of it to suit
est. hubbard was a satanist. plain and
simple. that is the truth. to many people
this doesnt mean anything.

Werner Erhard is on the Scientologist Hated List. Hubbard hated Erhard.

oh no. that is the pr that landmark
and scientology have put out.
landmark is indeed a sect of scientology.

think about this. scientology and
landmark have a lot in common.
one of the things they have in common
is abusive behavior. where landmark
will call any critical thinking a racket
scientology may use several individuals at a time to work their
people over in their quest to rid them
of critical thinking.

there are many other things about
the two religions that are the same.

now we get down to the nitty gritty.

when werner left scientology and i
have this that hubbard through
scientology made mention that
they did not like werner and the werner
more or less was fair game.

fair game is scientologies way of saying that they can come after u
to get u to shut, this includes but
is not limited to suing and killing
u. this is just part of their religon.

werner mentioned someplace that
he wanted to make this public,
supposedly so that if the public knew
that scientology would or could come
after him that by going public he hoped to stop it.

this was just a ploy.

people that are indoctrinated into
scientology are people that are
looking for some kind of sprituality
or are looking for God, or are looking
for their reasons to exist.

they enter scientology as a religion.
much like anybody would look to
Christianity, or some other religion.

i have looked at this for years and
have come to the realization and it
has been verified by other people that
i have spoken to that landmark is
very much like scientology.

but there is one difference.

even though in respects landmark is
a religion, they dont sell it as religon.
its awareness training, or its looking
within or whatever but it is not sold
as religion.

being that both scientology and landmark are so similar it becomes
apparent what the lie was all about.

in order for people to not want to connect scientology with landmark they
faked a split. they made it seem that
they were at odds with each other
and made it seem that their hatred
was genuine.

to become a sceinologiest u need
to be looking for religion, to become
a landmark grad is for everybody else.

many people in landmark would not
want to be scientologists, they dont
want religion and or they dont need
it. but remember, their quite similar,

scientology nabs people that are looking for a greater pupose, landmark is for those that are not.

when u see it from this perspective
it makes sense.

some people want religon, presto
scientology offers it to them. its the
religion of space ships and space
battles.

landmark uses the same tactics to
acquire people but they get the ones
that are not looking for reliigon but
have problems to be solved none the
less.

it was quite a charade. i find it rather
interesting that most people bought it
when they initially split.

and keep in mind the last landmark
would ever want is for people to
investigate scientology and find their
new way of being right there.

what a shock that would be.

the faked anamosity was to keep
the people from knowing the truth.

and remember, one of ole werners
most famous quotes is

" I have no truth, so what "

if someones most famous quote is
i have no truth, do u believe they
tell u. doesnt landmark preach there
is no truth.

if there is no truth, then lieing doesnt
mean anything.

another catch 22 of landmark.

Okay, whatever. I am still a WASP and not someone waiting for the big spaceship.

But you are forgetting a few things:

1) Werner never joined Scientology he took a few classes.

2) There a documents citing Hubbards hatred for Werner.

3) Several publications have now documented that the allegations made about Werner Erhard were untrue and recanted incuding Time Magazine, The Boston Globe, Los Angeles Daily News, and The (London) Times Magazine. One even included an interview with a guy hired by the scientologists.

At this point in time I am not going to argue the point any further because I no very little about werner and don't really care to.

Quote
express
Okay, whatever. I am still a WASP and not someone waiting for the big spaceship.

But you are forgetting a few things:

1) Werner never joined Scientology he took a few classes.

werner was a level 3 when he left
scientology.


2) There a documents citing Hubbards hatred for Werner.

of course there was. it was a charade.

landmark is much like scientology but
doesnt look for people thare are looking
for religion. scientology gets those people.

i do find it interesting how so many people
believe what landmark and scientology
put out as pr especially since landmark
preaches there is no truth or right and
wrong.

its astonishing



3) Several publications have now documented that the allegations made about Werner Erhard were untrue and recanted incuding Time Magazine, The Boston Globe, Los Angeles Daily News, and The (London) Times Magazine. One even included an interview with a guy hired by the scientologists.

some of the irs stuff may not have been
true. but isnt it strange how even though
landmark preaches there is no truth
that in order to cover their bases they
they attempt to put stuff out that is supposed
to be the truth. very interesting.

indoctrinate people that they have no
truth and yet when bad pr comes out they
attempt to show the truth, the truth according
to landmark,


At this point in time I am not going to argue the point any further because I no very little about werner and don't really care to.

i find your comment interesting. werner
started est now landmark. his brother is
the lead attorney for landmark. he is
supposed to take back control of landmark
in the year 2009 if what some of the
landmark grads mentioned once is true.

his brother is the lead attorney for landmark.
Um actually he is the CEO not the lead attorney.

he is supposed to take back control of landmark
in the year 2009 if what some of the
landmark grads mentioned once is true.

It is not true. The only grads who care about werner are the ones left from the est days--whom i think are alittle over the top. He is only mentioned in classrooms inf someone brings him up. He is out of the picture. Sorry to take away the charasmatic leader portion of landmark for you all. But Werner's brother is hardly charasmatic....

Quote
express
his brother is the lead attorney for landmark.
Um actually he is the CEO not the lead attorney. the CEO , i wonder how
many of the big bucks he makes while
people are donating their time for
the work.

do u have any problem with some
of the people making the money while
others are convinced to donate their
time ?

have u ever donated your time for them.

did u know he reads alt.fan.landmark
in the google groups daily. he mentioned
it himself. he hardly ever posts there.







he is supposed to take back control of landmark
in the year 2009 if what some of the
landmark grads mentioned once is true.

It is not true. The only grads who care about werner are the ones left from the est days--whom i think are alittle over the top.

are u speaking for all the grads. and they
are licensing the tech. its werners tech,
and werner got it from scientology.



He is only mentioned in classrooms inf someone brings him up. He is out of the picture. Sorry to take away the charasmatic leader portion of landmark for you all. But Werner's brother is hardly charasmatic....

who said anything about his brother
being charasmatic ?

are u aware that all the forum leaders
are trained in werners mannerisms?

the learn to speak alittle and move a little
bit like him. some of the benefits of that
is that most will never meet a forum leader
that will not like or feel comfortable.

that is one thing about cults. they all have
some kind of leader or guru. even though
werner is not there physically, his personna
is in ever landmark event.

As I stated earlier they chnaged the Landmark Forum about three years ago--they rewrote the source document meaning that werners work isn't even at the source of what is done now.

Where do you get your information regarding the training of forum leaders?