One of the changes of paradigm for New Agers is the passage from Newtonian physics to Quantum Mechanics. Many New Agers will refer to Quantum Mechanics to justify/explain the "creation of reality". This is the theme of the New Age movie "What the Bleep do we Know!!?" that is now available at your local movie rental store. The movie is said to be "a movie where reality is created by every thought".

Many participants at Landmark refer to that movie to support their new philosophy that "you create your own reality". The movie is said to be the biggest New Age event ever!

What the movie tells us is that reality is of quantum nature, thus made of infinite "possibilities". This is "the world of possibilities" Landmark refers to. Sound familiar, uh?

Now, inside our brain, the multiple possibilities overlap in a quantum way (this is "quantum brain theory" as put forward by Hameroff, Penrose and others) and our "Consciousness" collapses the many possibilities into "One" reality. This is the Quantum Wave Collapse from the quantum theory. Reality has just been created by this act of consciousness, and this is one’s “own reality”! This is the pseudo-scientific support to the philosophy that one creates its own reality. Some call it "Quantum Quackery!" (see Sci Am, Janv 2005). For many physicists (including me), it is an over exaggeration and a deviant interpretation of the “quantum measurement” problem.

Here, "Consciousness" is the key, and for New Agers, consciousness has precedence over matter. Let me point out one more time that it is Werner Erhard who funded the "Physics of Consciousness Research Group" at Esalen in 1975. See:

[www.qedcorp.com]

According to one of the physicist leading the group (Jack Sarfatti), Werner Erhard was also interested in UFO's and PSI (of course, he was a Scientologist). There exists also interesting links between Erhard and the CIA secret ‘distant viewing” (Stargate) project at Stanford lead by two physicists, Russel Targ and Hal Puthoff (Puthoff was a Scientologist!), but this is a little out of context at this time.

To conclude this post, does anyone knows how much emphasis is being put on the movie “What the Bleep do We Know!!?” at Landmark these days. It is definitely in line with Erhard’s New Age ideas about “creating your own reality”. This new philosophy gives participants a sense of infantile omnipotence where everything becomes possible, and where you become fully responsible for your own choices (being rich, poor, sick, healthy, or being hit by a truck!”.

WE got heavily influenced by a writer named Alan Watts, who he personally knew.

in Watts' described the universe as, essentially, a game or pastimes enacted by God (or Godhead) in which God splits him/herself into people and to have more fun, forgets about the game all the better to enjoy the game.

Watt's writing definitely contains much more than this, however this contains a seed of the attitude toward reality put out by est.

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For many physicists (including me), it is an over exaggeration and a deviant interpretation of the “quantum measurement” problem.

yes, and that to me tends to point to the validity of the theory that we pick and choose what of what data we accept and reject. because here you have people wishing to believe that they create their reality and so fasten on what seems to prove that they do.

I do not believe in choosing either between critical thinking or recognizing the place subjectivity has in our consciousness (i.e. that select, censor, edit all the time, as Robert Anton Wilson says, dream with our eyes open) but to recognize the subjective nature of experience and use critical thinking as a tool so as to not default to our prejudices all the time.

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There exists also interesting links between Erhard and the CIA secret ‘distant viewing” (Stargate) project at Stanford lead by two physicists, Russel Targ and Hal Puthoff (Puthoff was a Scientologist!), but this is a little out of context at this time.

do you have a source for this? I knew of the indirect involvment with Scientologists with remote viewing projects but not that WE had anything to do with this.

I really think that you seem to imply that people have gotten tricked into believing in Landmark or believing that we create our own reality through intellectual trickery rather than through a pre-existing belief.

Michael Lerner came up with the Just World Theory in 1966. the theory states that when presented with injustice, we tend to think of reasons why not to feel bad about it.

saying if only they knew how quantum physics really works, they would understand, that strikes me simplistic.

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Acid Reindeer
do you have a source for this? I knew of the indirect involvment with Scientologists with remote viewing projects but not that WE had anything to do with this.

See the writing of Jack Sarfatti "In the Thick of It!"

[www.qedcorp.com]

In that document, it is said :

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Werner (Erhard) was very active with trainings of government people in Washington D.C. Carter [30] had created Project Scanate [31] for remote-viewing of military targets by psychics. Werner used remote-viewing in his training and he also contributed money to SRI for that project.

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Acid Reindeer
I really think that you seem to imply that people have gotten tricked into believing in Landmark or believing that we create our own reality through intellectual trickery rather than through a pre-existing belief.

Michael Lerner came up with the Just World Theory in 1966. the theory states that when presented with injustice, we tend to think of reasons why not to feel bad about it.

saying if only they knew how quantum physics really works, they would understand, that strikes me simplistic.

I'm not sure about what you mean by this. I was only asking questions about Landmark's position on the movie "What the Bleep ..." and the message it carries. In my opinion, the movie is based on an over exaggeration of the strange features of quantum mechanics. The modern age guru Deepak Chopra is a big promoter of the movie, as he calls himself a "Quantum Healer", where "mind" creates illnesses and where mind can cure by creating a new (healthy) reality ... like he says "by correcting an idea that has gone wrong"! I want to know if Landmarkians promote/support/share explicitely these new beliefs.

Landmark wouldn't have a official position and why would they, unless the film specifically praised or denigrated Landmark.

LEC does not try to justify itself scientifically. if it did, it would limit its message, anyway. it won't or can't go into the mechanism of how, for example, you caused your own birth at a particular time or place or caused the past before your birth.

as I said, you can only really rationalize that away by presuming yourself as God, which kind of goes beyond science. not to say that they literally say as much, but like I said, I think WE borrowed a thing or two from Alan Watts.

a mailing list for Landmark grads talked about using the film to start "enrollment conversations", so, yeah, they've made use of it on an individual rather than corporate basis.

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midonov123
This is the theme of the New Age movie "What the Bleep do we Know!!?" that is now available at your local movie rental store. The movie is said to be "a movie where reality is created by every thought".

Many participants at Landmark refer to that movie to support their new philosophy that "you create your own reality". The movie is said to be the biggest New Age event ever!

It also happens to be a very good movie and very entertaining. It really makes you think. My husband and I both enjoyed it and I have several friends who recommended the movie to me. Are we now not allowed to like the movie just because some people at Landmark also happen to like it? If people in Landmark enjoy chocolate cake, does that mean I'm not allowed to eat it anymore?

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Acid Reindeer

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Landmark = Existentialism (atheistic) + New Age Philosophy (Polytheistic) = logical contradiction?!!!!

new age belief systems (not the plural) go from pantheistic to animist to monotheistic to soft polytheism, which beliees in multiple manifestations of God/Godhead to hard polytheism, which believes that deities have individual existence. you may even atheistics and agnostics.

while starting to type the above I chatted with this with a friend who most people would consider much more new age than me and he agreed with my opinions.

he pointed out the existence of new age christians who would usually consider themselves monotheists.

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[...] if the LGAT doesn't manage to seize control of their discriminative faculties first.

as I keep saying, to have to have them before you can lose them. not everyone has them originally.

Hello Everyone:

I guess New Age philosophy is rather had to pin down since it seems to be an amalgam of so many different things that are not necessarily all in perfect...ah...alignment. :wink: Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I've known a few New Agers too, and even they seemed to have difficulties defining it. But most New Agers I've met who had done their research on Landmark repudiated it.

Some traditional Eastern Philosophical and Western Fraternal Mystical organizations consider just enough of the typical "New Agers" to be rather credulous and puerile, and thus they do not care to be associated with the term "New Age." They would argue that Eastern Philosophy's, and their mysticism's apparent "polytheism," is merely an illusion to the unintiated and/or the outer circles of their respective religions. They would say that the apparent polytheism is really a monotheistic deity that appears in whatever form(s) best suits the psycho-social needs of the people, country and times. They purport that mysticism bridges the second-hand belief of mere religion by helping people to develop and perceive via their own atrophied paranormal senses to in essence make all intercessors and organized religions obsolete in the same vein as Gnosticism. It's sort of like learning French yourself instead of depending on an interpretor.

Looking at some of the subsequent posts from others, I must admit that I'm not one of those people to totally dismiss psychic phenoma out of hand necessarily.


When we think we know EVERYTHING that's when the danger begins. For example, we've been merely evolutionizing the technology of the last century, but we're *WAY* overdue for the next science and technology *REVOLUTION*.

The interesting part of the next anticipated science-tech. revolution is that it seems potentially to have even metaphysical implications and what many scientists have described as the "closest thing we have to magic."

For example:

First, a recent special report from Scientific American by Max Tegmark entitled "Parallel Universes," said that that according to science, it's not a question of whether parallel realties exist anymore; it's literally a matter of which parallel reality theory best describes reality. Hence the word "universe" is obsolete. Now it's multiverse.

Second, string theory, posits that there might exist as many as seven to eight additional dimensions to our own universe's "reality" for a total of ten or eleven. As a matter of fact if scientists are successful in creating a miniature black hole with a new and vastly larger particle accelerator, we may for the first time in the history of humankind prove the existence of such additional literal dimensions.

Third, a Dec. 27, 2005 New York Times article entitled "Quantum Trickery: Testing Einstein's Strangest Theory," just about floored me. Scientists have successfully acheived a "cat state" in half a dozen beryllium atom; that is, they managed to make individual berylliuim atoms spin both clockwise and counterclockwise simultaneously. And the truly miraculous aspect of it is that you only have to do this to one atom, and then the rest will instantaneously mimic the first one distance irrelevant. According to the theory that has been confirmed by this experiment, there seems to be a force at work that exceeds the speed of light. Other quantum experiments have beamed electrical currents in opposite directions simultaneously in the same wire. Or how about quantum a la Star Trek "beaming" of particles across a room? Well, folks, it's officially been done too. Scientists are arguing about what all of this ultimately means about the nature of our universe and reality, but clearly matter and energy have properties that would have been dismissed as kooky nonsense not that many years ago.

And fourth, well, let's just say check out this site:

[www.foresight.org]

Experts conservatively estimate that this technology *WILL*--not could or might--render all of our present technology and economic systems completely obsolete within a century.

Enjoy.

CNFT

...

...

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Gulab Jamon
It also happens to be a very good movie and very entertaining. It really makes you think. My husband and I both enjoyed it and I have several friends who recommended the movie to me. Are we now not allowed to like the movie just because some people at Landmark also happen to like it? If people in Landmark enjoy chocolate cake, does that mean I'm not allowed to eat it anymore?

I agree it's good entertainment (I love Marlee Matin)! But it's not science.

Another guru promoting that Quantum Physics (more specifically the "Unified Field") yields to INVINCIBILITY (similar to creating your own reality) through a proper usage of our "Consciousness" is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and his Trancendental Meditation (MT). Explicit references to the Unified Field of modern quantum physics theory and it's relation (sic!) to TM and Consciousness can be found here:

[www.mum.edu]

It is interesting to note that Deepak Chopra got his training from Maharishi MY. Also, one of the most influential physicist in the movie What the Bleep ... is John Hagelin a physicist from Maharishi University!

So you see, Werner Erhard - Physics of Concsiousness Research Group - -Distant viewing- New Age interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and Unified Field theory- Consciousness - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Deepak Chopra - What the Bleep do we know ...
it's all about "creating reality" leading to INVINCIBILITY (as per Maharishi Yogi) or call it EMPOWERMENT (at Landmark), or simply "infantile omnipotence".

It's also a Big market, big money making industry, it has a powerful influence in our western society, it creates new beliefs, ... but it's not science.

If people at Landmark like the movie, it's not for entertainment, but it's for the message it carries, a message that can be traced back (indirectly or directly depending how you read through thge lines) to Werner Erhard and the PCRG at Esalen in 1975.

So the bottomline, what I want to emphasize here is that Landmark (and others) are not in the entertainment or Education business, they are in a business of instilling a new set of "beliefs" where everyone becomes his own God, like many of you have mentioned before. It's more than a religion ... like Hindhu gurus are said to be more than Gods ... because they lead to God. Or do they really?

Midonov,

Once again, you understand and explain this mind-mess so eloquently!

Yes, FYI, the history behind Quantum Physics as a physical expression of the power of our mind/counsciousness began with the Transcendental Meditation (TM) movement, through Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's promotion of this method to unify our brain waves through TM.

According to the teachings, we mortals could bring about World Peace, eliminate crime and wars, and create our own Utopia on a personal and global level through elevating our consciousness and purifying our thoughts.

Yes, Hagelin is a physicist from Maharishi University of Management (MUM), formerly Maharishi International University (MIU), also from Maharishi European Research University (MERU).

The original 'discovery' of Quantum Mechanics as a scientific metaphor for consciousness and thought came through Larry Domash's dissertation on the subject. Domash is/was physicist, who promoted these ideas in the 1970's to his guru, and then Larry was later made president of MIU. This helped to move Maharishi and Transcendental Meditation from fame of The Beatles and the Beach Boys, into the Scientific marketing arena (along w/ brain wave studies by Wallace & Benson). Maharishi was thrilled! I don't know what happened to Larry since. He was once Maharishi's Golden Boy.
Now Hagelin is the Golden Boy.

I was there as a teenager when this unfolded.
My mother is an Executive Governor of the Age of Enlightenment. :roll:

After Domash, Chopra came and went (to steal the concepts and make his own bankroll), Johnny Gray, many others.

Hagelin, as a physicist, teaches that we can fly, turn invisible, and walk through walls, change history and the stock market, become invincible and achieve immortality merely through our thoughts. He ran for president under the Natural Law party (more than once?.... I stopped following this a long time ago).

The Natural Law party (TM) teaches that when one is enlightened, their brain waves function coherently as an expression of the Unified Field. In the Age of Enlightenment (always just around the corner..) we will choose our governmental leaders through brain wave studies to measure their elevated level of consciousness. Thus "What the bleep.."s resources have political aspirations as well.

The Unified Field is TM's way of saying 'God' but attempting to sound scientific. Maharishi teaches his TM teachers that "we teach in the language of Science because this is the Age of Science. In a Spiritual Age we would teach about God. It doesn't matter because we bring them to enlightenment regardless."
It's business practice - Marketing 101 - know your customer base.

When people are hooked/ brainwashed/ high on endogenous opiates (from the TM technique)... then the Hinduesque New Age hooga-booga really comes out! And the higher level teachings come with ever larger price tags.

The teachers, including Hagelin, believe that these 'higher level of teachings' (the occult) are withheld at the entry level because novices are not ready for those teachings - it would be like teaching calculus to a five year old, so they say. As one's consciousness expands (and critical thinking diminishes) then the higher level of teachings are introduced gradually. Thus Hagelin believes that he does a service in deception.

They teach that when one is enlightened, has achieved a quantum level of consciousness (based upon Quantum Physics), then one does not have to work anymore. Just think your desires and they will be spontaneously fulfilled without effort on your part. That is pure enlightnement, where science and spirit merge.

They never explain what would happen if two neighbors or family members had conflicting desires.

...Oh, forgive me - I suppose conflict of desires is not likely to happen since everyone becomes automatons and would have identical desires, to accompany identical speech patterns, and we'd all create identical worlds... :wink:

IMHO, I suggest NOT to put stock into anything from Hagelin, including the selected references to him in "What the Bleep..."

The teachings are feel-good, make-you-spacey, "infantile omnipotence" (great term!) and useless in a physical reality & practical world.

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midonov123
Another guru promoting that the (Quantum Physics) Unified Field yields to INVINCIBILITY through a proper training of our Consciousness is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. See for example:

[www.mum.edu]

It is interesting to note that Deepak Chopra got his training from Maharishi MY. Also, one of the most influencial physicist in the movie What the Bleep ... is John Hagelin a physicist from Maharishi University!

So you see, Werner Erhard - Physics of Concsiousness Research Group - -Distant viewing- New Age interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and Unified Field theory- Consciousness - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi - Deepak Chopra - What the Bleep do we know ...
it's all about "creating reality" leading to INVINCIBILITY or infantile omnipotence.

It's a Big market, big money making industry, it has a powerful influence in our western society, it creates new beliefs, ... but it's not science.