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can inform you that Landmark closed their office in Stockholm Sweden after a series of 2 investigative programs that aired in 2003 and 2004.

The programs are available on the web - they are in swedish though.

Media coverage is probably the most effective way to fight LGAT next after legislat

Nettie,

This would make a great NEW TOPIC!

Hope

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nettie
The programs are available on the web - they are in swedish though.

Now THAT I can't help with. :lol:

Along the lines of stopping them...How do they get away with not paying office staff minimum wage based on hours worked? Are their not laws in the US about unpaid volunteers like in France? I have NEVER heard of a for profit corporation having volunteers do the work.

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How do they get away with not paying office staff minimum wage based on hours worked? Are their not laws in the US about unpaid volunteers like in France? I have NEVER heard of a for profit corporation having volunteers do the work

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I know in the country I am from they cover themselves by not referring it to volunteering and I would think it is the same in the states.

This is pretty much how they define it (what I can remember of it anyway)

The Assisting programme (what they call it) is a "programme", you are being trained and coached on the "distinctions" by highly trained and committed staff and leaders (I was one of these... would never have called myself highly trained)

Basically landmark says it is a programme so not volunteering and the person gets more from it then they put into it.

Of course the other issue is the staff members in the office who are paid. everyone is on a salary. officially most staff work Monday to Saturday 10am to 9pm. In reality most staff work 8am to 11pm or later. many work on sundays and very few get annual leave because they can't find people to do their jobs while they are on vacation.

I know when I worked out my actuall hourly rate I was being paid less then the legal minimum in my country, as were other staff members.

So not only are they getting stacks of free workers, they few paid workers are probably being under paid (both literally and ethically)

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Media coverage is probably the most effective way to fight LGAT next after legislation

This is very true however the media coverage needs to be consistently applied. I know when I was on staff we had to cancel an SELP (self expression and leadership) when 80% of the participants pulled out after bad media coverage.

However the impact of the media didn't last as there were no more articles people stopped withdrawing.

Interestingly enough when people were withdrawing I was told point blank by my manager it was because of who I was "being" not because of media. Now as the person who had to talk to everyone who withdrew I know they all said it was because of th media.

So......what is probably the BEST way to stop them is to get a big media expose in the United States. If I understand correctly that is part of what took EST out was the threat of a big media exposure. (Of course EST was reborn as Landmark) Surely someone can get to the media. The big expose' shows haven't done anything really controversial in a while. With all the people who have at least taken one course and/or been coerced to take one or take more, this would make a great story and should generate a lot of interest.

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looking for help
So......what is probably the BEST way to stop them is to get a big media expose in the United States. If I understand correctly that is part of what took EST out was the threat of a big media exposure. (Of course EST was reborn as Landmark) Surely someone can get to the media. The big expose' shows haven't done anything really controversial in a while. With all the people who have at least taken one course and/or been coerced to take one or take more, this would make a great story and should generate a lot of interest.

Just a quick note:

There is a lot of press that has exposed and critic Scientology for more than a decade now. Despite all the bad press, it keeps growing and finding new high profile supporters (e.g. Tom Cruise).

This is something I can hardly understand. Why people believe in weird things? And why people get deceived so easily? Any answer to that?

Maybe what makes a difference for Scientology is its religious status. But still, I think there will always be supporters for the weird and the unusual or cults. People are craving to find a meaning to their life.

Modern science teaches us that the place we have in the Universe is insignificant both in space and time. Cults tell us we are our own God where each of us becomes the center of the Universe. That's an appealing alternative don't you think? How do we fight that? What does modern science and reason have to offer as an alternative? Trying to control what people are allowed to believe in is a step toward totalitarism, don't you think?

Humans are full of doubts and contradictions. This is one that I have. But I'd still like to kick Landmark out of my country, I have no doubts about that!

There are secular movements, idealists perhaps that put the focus on people, not easy answers or pre-ordained rules passed down from on high.

[www.americanhumanist.org]

I liked reading this document but am left wondering how you sell it to the masses who are for the majority dogged theists.

This thread really isn't for promoting a manifesto.

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midonov123

Just a quick note:

There is a lot of press that has exposed and critic Scientology for more than a decade now. Despite all the bad press, it keeps growing and finding new high profile supporters (e.g. Tom Cruise).

This is something I can hardly understand. Why people believe in weird things? And why people get deceived so easily? Any answer to that?

Maybe what makes a difference for Scientology is its religious status. But still, I think there will always be supporters for the weird and the unusual or cults. People are craving to find a meaning to their life.

Modern science teaches us that the place we have in the Universe is insignificant both in space and time. Cults tell us we are our own God where each of us becomes the center of the Universe. That's an appealing alternative don't you think? How do we fight that? What does modern science and reason have to offer as an alternative? Trying to control what people are allowed to believe in is a step toward totalitarism, don't you think?

Humans are full of doubts and contradictions. This is one that I have. But I'd still like to kick Landmark out of my country, I have no doubts about that!

Hi Midonov123,

I'm not so sure of this:

"Modern science teaches us that the place we have in the Universe is insignificant both in space and time."

The above quote sounds like the E&M anti-concept (especially as time and space are related to man).

The study of space and time impartially is a science, the branch of astronomy called cosmology, and it is [i:84c257c26d]really[/i:84c257c26d] close to metaphysics. The (perhaps?) unscientific conclusion that man is increasingly insignificant as a result of scientific discovery can be argued (and invalidated) easily, even if the claim is common. :)


Regards,

Markus

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MarkusWelch
I'm not so sure of this:

"Modern science teaches us that the place we have in the Universe is insignificant both in space and time."

The above quote sounds like the E&M anti-concept (especially as time and space are related to man).

I refer to facts. The earth is approx. 5 billions year old, the time of apparition of man is insigificant compared to that figure. Our sun is only a vary faint star compared to the infinite number of stars and galaxies...

This is what I mean by space and time. There is nothing metaphysical here. But this is getting philosophical and it's not the purpose of that thread I guess.

What I want to point at here is at Landmark's message that "Life is empty and meaningless...". If we want to fight the philosophy of Landmark, we need to offer philosophical arguments that will counter those of emptiness. I think many get addicted to Landmark because they fall for their rethoric and they feel their life is "empty and meaningless" outside Landmark. Therefore, for some, adopting the New Age philosophy (that you create your own reality .. like a God) is addicting.