Thanks for the translation, Gulab Jamon!
I saw this article linked to from Wikipedia:
[en.wikipedia.org]
But there is no English for it. I wonder it there is a way to link to your translation from Wikipedia?

As long as humans have the need to belong to a group and have a need for some idea as to why things happen the way they do, there'll be organizations like this.

I think Americans are particularly susceptible to these types of things because I think many want a quick fix to their problems. For a payment of money and a weekend spent learning what ever is offered, you get a nearly instant fix for whatever they thought was missing, plus they get into a group of people that will accept them.

LGATs are not going away anytime soon...

Actually may this other thing from Wikipedia would be more useful for exposing LE:
[en.wikipedia.org]
archive.org strikes again! It shows early versions of werner-erhard.com and how it came
straight off the landmark web site in 2001 before they changed it all around.
LE even has the registration on werner-erhard.com.
On second thougt tho, even if you can find out that LE is paying to run a Werner fan site, does that help?
Everyone knows they are all "Friends of Werner Erhard"
but its kinda neat to see how LE put together werner-erhard.com

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midonov123

I refer to facts. The earth is approx. 5 billions year old, the time of apparition of man is insigificant compared to that figure. Our sun is only a vary faint star compared to the infinite number of stars and galaxies...

This is what I mean by space and time. There is nothing metaphysical here. But this is getting philosophical and it's not the purpose of that thread I guess.

But Midonov, it seems to some extent you've incorporated the E&M aspect of the 'philosophy'above.

Impartial, accurate, and precise observation of space and time, a science, does not in itself render man increasingly insignificant. In fact I enjoy the increased knowledge and appreciate the skills of our scientists. Only when one asks, what does the evidence mean, does it begin to approach philosophy. Then, as a matter for philosophy, it is absurd to suggest things like 'create my reality' or otherwise postulate as a landmarkian might in opposition to the evidence or otherwise. That kind of 'subjectivism' is the philosophical antithesis of Aristotle's 'A=A' which refers to identity, a precursor for logic and science (and technology).

Also, to hear a landmarkian say something similar to "it means what it means" is interesting....

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midonov123

What I want to point at here is at Landmark's message that "Life is empty and meaningless...".

I know. That message is not scientific, and no scientific research could result in such an anti-concept. It is exactly what you called it...a message.

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midonov123

If we want to fight the philosophy of Landmark, we need to offer philosophical arguments that will counter those of emptiness.

Ask them to prove life is E&M.

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midonov123

I think many get addicted to Landmark because they fall for their rethoric and they feel their life is "empty and meaningless" outside Landmark. Therefore, for some, adopting the New Age philosophy (that you create your own reality .. like a God) is addicting.

I think you're right.

I went to LF and experienced it two months ago. I want to warn everybody! Do not participate under any circumstances. I would be willing to talk to a reporter who is studying it.

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mona
I went to LF and experienced it two months ago. I want to warn everybody! Do not participate under any circumstances. I would be willing to talk to a reporter who is studying it.

Mona,

Could you please elaborate as to why you urge everybody not to participate. What did you experienced (feelings) or what is your analysis (reason) that makes you say that? If it's a personal opinion, you are most welcome to tell your story. If it's a professional opinion (maybe you are a heath professional?), please tell us everything.

Yes, I can share my experience in hopes of helping others. I am not a healthcare professional but just a stay-home-mom looking for career advice. I took the forum to focus on myself, find my strengths, and figure out what direction to take, and what kind of career path to follow next.
I went to the forum with completely open mind. I knew nothing about it. My very good friend took the forum a year ago and talked to me on several occasions, how wonderful this class is that she had done, and how her life had changed to the better in more ways that she had ever thought possible. It all sounded so wonderful and so good, I was completely sold on it. I respected my friend greatly and trusted her blindly. She is a highly respected researcher with PhD, and a team leader in a fortune 500 company. Her creditability meant everything for me and I only checked the landmark website for reference. I was convinced after viewing the site, since this company is worldwide and has business and leadership development with major companies. If I only would have known to google landmark, and found these pages, I could have prevented this most awful experiences of my entire life.
During the Friday and Saturday of the course, nothing made sense to me. I was frustrated and confused. I was then only told that it was ok to feel that way and that I would eventually "pop". It was making me angry that I wasn’t "getting it" and started to doubt there was something wrong with me. I was trying so hard to "fit in". Now later, I realize that is all part of their method to "get you" (groupthink). By Sunday night, I was sold on landmark. I was feeling positive about the whole experience and wanted to bring my husband in, along with our children.
On Monday, everything changed. I went into a deep psychosis. I felt manic depressive and paranoid. My mind was working million miles an hour. My heart was pumping faster that I thought it could. I was cold and I was sweaty at the same time. I was shaking and couldn’t focus. All the things said during the weekend kept going through my head. I started to make connections with different things I heard and how people acted - such as the forum leader and my friend, who was working the forum the whole weekend. It all came together for me that this was a huge scam. That night I was convinced that this forum is very very BAD for people!
I warned everybody that I knew. I couldn’t sleep. I couldn’t eat. And I had severe panic attacks. I was afraid that "the landmark people" would come after me and my family for saying anything bad about them. I started to think we would have to move to be safe and change our identity. By Tuesday, I was a nervous wreck. I called Rick Ross’s help line and thank god he helped me. He put things in perspective for me and convinced me they were not going to come after me. They are a business and all they are interested in is to make profit - not to go after people they have already "lost". They need to concentrate on those "willing" to listen and sell their courses to the next victims.
I decided then not to go to the Tuesday "graduation" and called my friend, I’m not coming. She put the course leader on the phone right away, because she didn’t know how to handle it. I told the course leader I want my money back and she was shocked. She tried to talk me out of it and pry more information on what had happened. But she did not have the time to argue with me on the phone - they had their big night to prepare for, so she said the office manager would call me tomorrow.
On Wednesday the office manager called (I was terrified waiting for the phone call) and asked me one question: "Did you feel like you didn’t benefit from this class?" I replied no, that I had had high expectations and got nothing out of it. I have no calling for action - I feel nothing. Without hesitation, she said ok, how did you pay, and my refund check came in the mail the following week. It was of’ course a lie that I told her I felt nothing. But I did not want them to argue with me, that my "transformation" was my turning against them and the "calling for action" was to warn people about it. Certainly, this was not at all what I had expected to get from this course.
Even after the refund, my nightmare went on. I was still not able to sleep. I was starting to worry about myself and what I could be capable of doing. Something very insane and scary. I have never experienced panic attacks in my life. I have no mental health issues prior to this experience. But that week, I thought I was going insane and didn’t know what it was and what to do. Fortunately, I have an other good friend, who is a psychologist. I cried for her help and she told me what was happening to me (panic attacks etc.). She told me to go to a doctor. I went and got sleeping pills and Alprazolam for the panic attacks.
After sleeping a few nights 8hrs straight, I felt much better. I started to feel myself again. It has taken me three months to heel myself and even now that I am writing this I feel anxious and some of those fears come back. Part of the healing process has been following the discussion on these pages and finally, I got the courage to write myself. I guess I just feel very fortunate after reading some of the stories, because I got out of it so quickly. I am just so worried about those new people getting involved and not knowing anything about it. I want to help them and raise the awareness. How can we stop these people from ruining other people’s lives?

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mona
Yes, I can share my experience in hopes of helping others. I am not a healthcare professional but just a stay-home-mom looking for career advice. I took the forum to focus on myself, find my strengths, and figure out what direction to take, and what kind of career path to follow next...

Mona,

Thanks for telling us about your traumatic experience. This is really scary. I wonder, what did the health professional said about your breakdown? Did the doctor or the psychologist made any direct connection to Landmark being responsible for it? If so, how do they explain such a dramatic outcome?

To anyone in this community, how can we explain these psychotic episodes and mental breakdown following participation to LGATs? If this is documented, why can't we stop this nonsense?

I mentioned that my wife was attending Landmark to a friend at work this morning. She is the first person I've met who not only had heard the name in passing conversation, but had a strong perception of them as being cult-like. It was gratifying to meet someone who knew what I was talking about. It also made me wonder: if this perception readily exists in society how come our government doesn't take notice?

I'll clarify this by saying that I've shared Landmark with only a handful of people in the area. So far three of them had heard of LE. One of them had heard of Landmark from a friend who had attended and was left with a positive opinion. She did not attend herself, but she is the person who passed the information on to my wife. The second person had also heard of LE through a friend who had attended. He was left skeptical, but willing to accept his friend's claims. He declined to attend himself, however. He has since asked more questions and become convinced that they are a scam. Lastly, is my co-worker who had heard also heard of LE through a friend who had attended. This person is deep in LE - her description makes her sound like a group leader, at least. My co-worker feels that this person is definitely in a cult and tries to avoid any conversations about LE.

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midonov123

To anyone in this community, how can we explain these psychotic episodes and mental breakdown following participation to LGATs? If this is documented, why can't we stop this nonsense?

The psychotic breaks occur when a person simultaneously succumbs and resists the brainwashing. The person who succumbs fully commits to the LGAT (or other cult).
Those who maintain a shred of their own self, but also partially succumb must battle inner demons - thus the psychotic break.

It is ugly to watch. I felt close at times, from being with cult members. Thus I live far from my cult-based family.

I also know of several breaks that resulted in suicides.

It's a slippery slope to prove in court.