Hi

I started this thread in the hope that there are other people out there who have been for the Turning point workshops held by the Banai's at the Insight Centre of Of light in Kyalami.

I did do the Turning point workshop a couple years back and did NOT enjoy it, My hubby who did many years before me INSISTED i do it. He redid the workshop Turning point...then Joyspring..and the Mile. This was about 8 months back.
Our relationship has deteriorated to the point i want to leave him. He gives me all the psychological bs....of "win/win situation" look into myself....im selfish.... im sabotaging our marriage....and a whole lot more.

I have read all the threads relations to LGATS and the type of brain washing that goes on.

Is the process reversible?

any help or suggestion are welcomed.

s

There is quite a bit of information about LGATs (large group awareness training) also called mass marathon training.

See [www.culteducation.com]

To better understand the coercive persuasion used by many LGATs see

[www.culteducation.com]

There is a also a book available that includes a chapter about LGAT and getting someone out of an LGAT.

See [cultsinsideout.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2015 08:33PM by rrmoderator.

Dear sumi:

Over the years, others have discussed Insight Centre of Light.

[forum.culteducation.com]

One way to recognize an LGAT or other type of irresponsible seminar is the type of waiver form subjects must sign as a condition of participation. In effect, you give them credit for your successes -- and by signing that waiver form, you release them from all responsibility if you are harmed. You are signing away your citizen rights to sue or mediate for damages.

LGAT release/waiver forms.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Room Arrangment

Some LGATs set the room up in a particular way. In some cases furniture is set up with great precision, and re-arranged while subjects are on break. Often, care is taken to re-assign subjects to new groups to prevent people from forming connections with buddies.

This discussion, "Manipulating the room's environment" became one of the most active discussions in the LGAT section of this forum. Troll disruption reached fever pitch -- a sure sign that this topic was an important one.

[forum.culteducation.com]

A contrast between LGAT room arrangement and Zen meditation protocol

[forum.culteducation.com]

The impact of LGAT sleep deprivation.

People can easily run short on sleep if they are kept up to a late hour, and or given homework assignments that oblige them to stay up past bedtime, and then rise early enough in the morning to get to the next day of the LGAT event.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Sleep Deprivation

Many LGATs use some form of the Prisoners Dilemma game, sometimes called Red Black Game.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Good day, I found your forum when searching for info on Baruch Banai and the Insight centre of Light. I am writing because my brother, his wife and their son attended a Turning Point training session presented at the centre of light and, they subsequently invite my mom and sister as well as myself to a guest evening TONIGHT.
I became very suspicious about this when my brother told me that he loves me. Don't get me wrong, it was great to hear this from him (I think for the very first time) but hey what gives! I then started researching "Dr Baruch Benai" and found this forum. After reading through a lot of the posts, I am convinced that this is a cult. I told my brother that I will attend the guest night (can't let my mom and sister go alone). Also, I don't want him to have the excuse that I didn't even bother to go look for myself when (hopefully) I eventualy discuss this with him.

Any advice as to what to look out for toninght and maybe what to say/do not say/do? Please, any help will be appreciated.

Concerned101,

Corboy's post right above yours is probably a good place to start. Also, since this is obviously the night where they invite guests, i would expect a couple of things, especially if the family members who invited you just completed the program.

1. Expect a hard sell. Leave your money and credit cards at home, and DO NOT allow anyone to loan you the money or make a down payment for you. The whole point is to get you to sign up.

They will probably say that there is a discount, if you sign up tonight, (or within 48 hrs, or whatever), because they are in a hurry to get that "hook" into you. Don't fall for it.

In the one I was in, part of the deposit was non-refundable, so when you get away from the hard sell and change your mind, you will have lost that money. If you borrowed it, or if the other person offered to pay your deposit, you will feel obligated to go, so again, don't let them do that.

2. There will be glowing testimonials by people who just completed the course. They are still on their "LGAT high," and won't come down for a couple of weeks. You can type "LGAT high" into the search bar and read about it, if you are wondering. Briefly, it is sort of a euphoric state that most people feel after completing an LGAT program. It is not a normal state of mind, and many feel that it is actually pathological, (similar to hypomania, if not, in fact, the very same thing). Many of the people pushing the program will be in this state.

3. When you ask them what the course consists of, or what it is about, their answers will be vague - they will say that it is experiential and that you just have to do the course to get it.

4. It is not recommended to be critical of the program around the people who just completed it, or who are trying to sell it. Make your refusal short, concise, and non-negotiable, without criticizing. More along the lines of, "I just don't think it's right for me," or "I'm just not drawn to it." Don't argue or point things out that you don't like. Just keep repeating that you are not interested.

5. Go in a separate car with your mother and sister. That way, if you or the others want to leave, you can leave without upsetting your brother, or feeling obligated to stay.

Others with more experience and expertise may be along with additional or better suggestions. Stand firm, and Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2019 06:06PM by kdag.

* I will add that it is EXTREMELY common for the person who invited you to offer to make the deposit to "hold your space open." That was how I got sucked in. I tried to just pay her back and not go, but she wouldn't take the money back, ("Don't you trust me? You won't regret it."). Just be prepared for that and don't fall for it.

Be on the look out for a false sense of security in the sense that everyone there is so open and approachable ..they all hug a lot ... All happy and chirpy...They talk softly no screaming ... With All this you kind of let your guard down.

Morning all,

Thank you for your feedback. It was an interesting evening. You are spot on with all the smiles and hugs all around. If you knew my brother and his wife before this, you would have been as surprised as me. The presentation went on for almost 2 hours with Royee Banai was selling the course like a top notch salesman, I almost felt like a complete loser for NOT wanting to improve my life. While we were busy with this my brother and his wife left with their group to another room where they were introduced to the next step - Joyspring (R6500 per person). I asked him afterwards - So do you now (after Turning Point) know your purpose in life? He said no, that is what Joyspring is for. I will bet all that there will be another carot after Joyspring to get them to do the Mile (R9500 per person). Of course he asked me how the presentation was and I just said that I am still processing it. What do I do? Do I stay silent and let them go through the next programme without saying anything or should I at least suggest to him to do a Google search for LGAT?

I'm really hoping that this thread is still active and I get a response on here..

I've been having quite a hard time with life in general over the last 6 months or so, and a good friend of mine told me about the Turning Point workshop offered at the Insight Training Centre/Centre of Light near Kyalami/Midrand, claiming that it would change my life and transform me for the better.

I attended the presentation evening with said friend not too long ago and it piqued my interest, so much so that I decided to sign myself up for the next workshop thinking "What's the worst that could happen and what do I have to lose?"

Suspicion and skepticism slowly crept into my mind over the last few days with regards to certain things about that evening, as well as the workshop and those who appear to run it in general:

#1. The location (if it's so hugely popular and attracts so many, why is it so out of the way?) and the room in which the workshop is held (why are there no/such small windows and why is there such a large stage setup?)
#2. Something about Royee's personality as he spoke to us that evening put me off.. I got the impression that he was being too 'facade-ish' or friendly for what it's worth, it could have just been me..
#3. The fact that very little to almost nothing is mentioned about what we would actually be doing in this workshop for more than 10 hours a day 5 days straight.. I later pressed my friend and her partner for some details, but neither of them would say much. All I heard about was the 'anger game' (whatever that is...), but I got the sense that some kind of agreement or something must have been in place prior to justify such secrecy amongst attendees?

All of this together raised a red flag after I gave it some thought, more so I'm not the kind of person to go head in first for anything unless I've done enough research to satisfy and convince myself beforehand.
Obviously the actual website for the Insight Training Centre yielded little and testimonials do nothing for me, same went for the Google Reviews which I found highly suspicious since the Centre received an overall rating of 5 stars from 49 people (not even the best restaurant in the country has a 5 star rating from Google Reviews or HelloPeter, someone somewhere was unhappy about something (no matter how arbitrary) and at some point!).
HelloPeter only yielded one review and a bad one at that, but the comments discredit it and seeing as it's just one review it's nowhere near enough to give the Centre an 'overall' bad rating, if that makes sense?

But then I stumbled across this forum and read through everything here while keeping another tab open to do additional research.. I'm shook to the core from what I've learned from some of you.
It appears that my suspicion and skepticism was justified and there is a dark side to this apparently miraculous workshop that changes everything in your life (including you) in just a matter of 5 days..

The only thing that's unfortunate here is the anonymity of those who have posted, since I am genuinely interested in pursuing this further and already got in touch with a psychologist that is well versed with cult and LGAT psychology.

Additional commentary and/or support in this regard would be greatly appreciated. Although many people have seemingly benefited from this, and other workshops on offer at the Centre, I'm particularly worried about those who were worse off afterwards and have no voice or place to go where the can publicly share their awful experiences for others to see!

As a last point, there is also a very long paper trail following Baruch, and to a lesser degree Royee (his son I think), that I'm not sure they are actually aware of. Turning Point is just a 're-branding'of sorts for similar workshops that have been undertaken by numerous organisations (and Baruch!) in the past which have become enshrouded with scandal and conspiracy; not to mention Quest, Inquest, EST, LandMark, etc. Most of the main people involved (also check Buster and Wendy Sefor) are linked to one another and in this country a lot of this kind of thing seems to come down to Pat Grove who, even though he is dead, may have been the starting point.

My research seems to indicate that this is much larger than we think it is..

Hi there...I would suggest you give him as much information as possible. God willing he hasnt bought into the whole idea as yet.

I tried with my daughter who attended unfortunately they already caught her hook line and sinker. She did the mile as well as the soul dancing ( run by the daughter ).

I have tried to contact the centre managed to get hold of the wife who absolutely refused for me to talk to either the father or the son.
Told me in matter of factly voice that I needed to take my daughter to the hospital.

Well my daughter is damaged she'just come out of the psych ward again.

I wouldn't wish this on anybody else