Mankind project
Posted by:
skepticmd
()
Date: April 26, 2006 12:51AM
Ivy, I'm in the yahoo group now.....very informative, to say the least. Thanks
Mankind project
Posted by:
cb1000rider
()
Date: April 27, 2006 02:08AM
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skepticmd
Ivy, I'm in the yahoo group now.....very informative, to say the least. Thanks
Just be aware that the yahoo forum isn't an "open" discussion.
I'd strongly encourage you to view both sides of the debate.
Several "pro" MKP voices have been banned from posting. Talk the the moderator - it isn't a forum where debate is encouraged, pro-MKP views are not well tolerated.
Mankind project
Posted by:
Ivy
()
Date: April 27, 2006 06:37AM
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RU?ingQuote
wquercus
RU?ing, thanks for posting the summary as you gave it. It is congruent with what I experienced, and those who say it isn't are perhaps not living in integrity.
Excatly what I believe! And Thanks for taking the time to read the thread. I didn't actually post a summary - I posted the whole lot!Quote
wquercus
I'd differ with the implied criticism of sex-segregation, though. I think men do need to discuss things with other men.
We sure do, we also need to discuss things with women, otherwise we are creating 'shadows'. I just don't get the need to huddle up with only one gender. It wouldn't have worried me so much if it were both! Surely the men and women could be split up during the weekend?Quote
wquercus
While you've given the outline for the weekend itself, much of the theory can also be found in published form in Bill Kauth, A Circle of Men (1992). Kauth was one of the creators of the NWTA.
I'm trying to find it on p2p as we speak! - I hope its not as bad as Iron John! That was terrible!
Thanks for your time in reading my posts, and thanks for joining in the debate.
Mankind project
Posted by:
Ivy
()
Date: April 27, 2006 06:40AM
I totally agree with this Ru, and I still think there is a mockery of the Native american rituals. Seems when I question Bearsong on his so called native credintals he dissapeared! I questioned one other and lose him too! And with all the shadows you will have then when does the carpet work end?
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IvyQuote
RU?ingQuote
wquercus
RU?ing, thanks for posting the summary as you gave it. It is congruent with what I experienced, and those who say it isn't are perhaps not living in integrity.
Excatly what I believe! And Thanks for taking the time to read the thread. I didn't actually post a summary - I posted the whole lot!Quote
wquercus
I'd differ with the implied criticism of sex-segregation, though. I think men do need to discuss things with other men.
We sure do, we also need to discuss things with women, otherwise we are creating 'shadows'. I just don't get the need to huddle up with only one gender. It wouldn't have worried me so much if it were both! Surely the men and women could be split up during the weekend?Quote
wquercus
While you've given the outline for the weekend itself, much of the theory can also be found in published form in Bill Kauth, A Circle of Men (1992). Kauth was one of the creators of the NWTA.
I'm trying to find it on p2p as we speak! - I hope its not as bad as Iron John! That was terrible!
Thanks for your time in reading my posts, and thanks for joining in the debate.
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: May 03, 2006 02:08AM
I just want to state that I am NOT defending this group. Yes, (as mkp states feel your feelings in you body) feel in my gut that something with this group freaks me out. Please be patient as I am trying to process all of the information that I am reading about this group compared to what my husband has told me about this group. I do understand that I could be up against him having some ideas "that he was brainwashed" with. AND I AM TRYING TO PROCESS. This really F***ING sucks, having to fight my gut feeling with what my husband whom I have always trusted is telling me.
Mankind project
Posted by:
what2do
()
Date: May 03, 2006 02:26AM
Ginah, I really understand where you are in this process. It can be overwhelming to think a group could have that much control over your husband. It can really be frightening to think they might lie to us about what went on - because they feel more loyalty to a group of men they just met than to their wife.
On a Yahoo group, the man who started that group was in MKP for 3 years. I had asked him some questions and one of his answers made me so sad. On his weekend, he had to (in visualization only) kill his father. He said he was left limp on the floor after this ordeal. He was asked who loves him - his response was his wife and daughter. He was told to look around at the men in his group - that is who loves him now. His family was simply dismissed as being unimportant.
He also wrote about going to Igroup and checking in. He had an argument with his wife that day, so that was what he checked in about. He was told to should "F*ck that bitch". Then the men in his group also shouted "F*ck that bitch".
I think this is where the mind manipulation kicks in. Most men would never stand for other men shouting that about their wife. In these groups, it becomes the norm for this stuff to happen. I am not saying it happens at every meeting, but if it does happen, no big deal. This is the kind of stuff a man will never share with his wife. This is where their loyalty starts getting tested.
Take your time processing this stuff. Everyone may come to a different conclusion about what bothers them, or does not bother them. I hope no one tries to criticize you. We all hopefully have our free will to think our own way.
On a Yahoo group, the man who started that group was in MKP for 3 years. I had asked him some questions and one of his answers made me so sad. On his weekend, he had to (in visualization only) kill his father. He said he was left limp on the floor after this ordeal. He was asked who loves him - his response was his wife and daughter. He was told to look around at the men in his group - that is who loves him now. His family was simply dismissed as being unimportant.
He also wrote about going to Igroup and checking in. He had an argument with his wife that day, so that was what he checked in about. He was told to should "F*ck that bitch". Then the men in his group also shouted "F*ck that bitch".
I think this is where the mind manipulation kicks in. Most men would never stand for other men shouting that about their wife. In these groups, it becomes the norm for this stuff to happen. I am not saying it happens at every meeting, but if it does happen, no big deal. This is the kind of stuff a man will never share with his wife. This is where their loyalty starts getting tested.
Take your time processing this stuff. Everyone may come to a different conclusion about what bothers them, or does not bother them. I hope no one tries to criticize you. We all hopefully have our free will to think our own way.
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: May 03, 2006 02:41AM
Thank you for understanding, this is killing me inside. I woke up this morning with tears in my eyes over this. Who cries in their sleep?
Mankind project
Posted by:
cb1000rider
()
Date: May 06, 2006 06:13AM
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ginah
Thank you for understanding, this is killing me inside. I woke up this morning with tears in my eyes over this. Who cries in their sleep?
Ginah, you might also want to consider that there are many of us who have gone through MKP and have positive things to say about it.
IMHO, the people that are promoting MKP as a "cult" and cry "brainwashing" are in the VAST minority..... I survived just fine and although I'm not actively partisipating in MKP currently, I don't feel that I'm brainwashed or was harmed in any way. The process is a bit intimidating, but there are many people that believe great good can come of it. I think there is much to-do about "nothing" here and that MKP has a positive impact in many, many people's lives... The people calling this a "cult" don't want to talk about that.
Mankind project
Posted by:
cb1000rider
()
Date: May 06, 2006 06:27AM
Quote
what2do
On a Yahoo group, the man who started that group was in MKP for 3 years. I had asked him some questions and one of his answers made me so sad. On his weekend, he had to (in visualization only) kill his father. He said he was left limp on the floor after this ordeal. He was asked who loves him - his response was his wife and daughter. He was told to look around at the men in his group - that is who loves him now. His family was simply dismissed as being unimportant.
This is taken a bit out of context and although I'd agree on the facts of the above, it's described in a way which is very leading.
A lot of men hold anger about lots of things. For some of them it is a parent. Men spend their LIVES repressing feelings and some people believe that uncovering these feelings (which can be subconscious) can lead men to happier & healthier lives. How mentally healthy would you be if you were forced to repress all of your feelings?
I think the following is totally incorrect and a leading, even fabricated, opinion*:
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He was told to look around at the men in his group - that is who loves him now. His family was simply dismissed as being unimportant.
*-> as this seems to be used against me.. I recognize (see below) that opinions cannot be fabricated. However, if this is presented as a "fact" and not an opinion, I believe it is a fabrication
His family was not at ALL being dismissed as unimportant. The man was being told that he was being supported by all the men in the group and that they didn't look down on him for expressing his feelings. There is absolutely no degridation of the family - or "brainwashing" that would make a man believe that MKP is a replacement for family. Saying that the family was being dismissed is dishonest IMHO. I NEVER saw that happen even once.
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He also wrote about going to Igroup and checking in. He had an argument with his wife that day, so that was what he checked in about. He was told to should "F*ck that bitch". Then the men in his group also shouted "F*ck that bitch".
Again, you've got a man expressing his feelings without the reproach of society or implications that would happen if he actually said that to his wife... It's an exercise to get that man to express his feelings, which will result in his ability to get PAST them and no longer feel that way. Just like if you said to your girlfriends "Tom was SUCH an ASSHOLE today" - it's the same thing.. You might not say that to Tom, but you might feel better if you were able to get it out. Getting rid of those feelings *could* enable some people to move past them and learn from the situation, working out those differences in a productive way instead of bottling them up and not addressing them for long periods of time.
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I think this is where the mind manipulation kicks in. Most men would never stand for other men shouting that about their wife. In these groups, it becomes the norm for this stuff to happen.
MKP isn't about wife bashing or mind manipulation.
It's an "open" forum where you can express yourself. without repercussion. The things we're all thinking anyway can be expressed to other men. Releasing that emotion empowers men to move past it...
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