Quote
omeleteagle

Quote
jiggidy
Omeleteagle,

I'm not very good at using the quotes, so I apologize for the way that came out. I'm sort of hesitant to go back and try to change things because I may mess it up even more!

My (jiggidy's) words and the sentence(s) that follow them start at "Yeah,...", "This is my ex," "Yep", "Gotta strongly agree"


Let me know if you'd like me to go ahead and try to re-do the post.

Hi Jidggidy, yes that is what I'd like, anything else would, to my mind, be unfair.

I have asked you to remove that post which perports to be me, now I'm telling you.
You seem to be like the people we are discussing , having little or no regard for other peoples position.
Don't bother with the excuses, I'm not interested.

There's gotta be a direct connection with the Mankind Project fake sweatlodges and James Arthur Ray.
James Ray could have done some of the MKP courses, is there any evidence of this?

James Arthur Ray - Mankind Project New Warrior Training [forum.culteducation.com]

Which year did the Mankind Project LGAT start using the fake sweat lodge? They say they have been doing them for 24 years.
So its very possible and likely that James Ray just copied the MKP methods, then modified them himself.

Is there actual proof that the Mankind Project also uses plastic or other non-breathable material on their fake sweat lodge?
If so, that shows a modification they designed to create oxygen deprivation.

New Warrior Training Adventure® is trying to do some serious PR [mankindproject.org] to distance themselves from James Ray, like everyone else in the New Age and LGAT business.

The Mankind Project sounds extremely dangerous, just from their catchphrase alone.

Mankind Project QUOTE: "Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"

The MKP catchphrase is an extremely serious warning sign, they say right there they can and will break you down in 48 hrs, more than 20 years of life experience.
The MKP catch-phrase also has the embedded suggestive PRESUPPOSITION "are you ready" in the form of a question, which is a deliberate verbal technique.
The question is permissive influence, they ask you the leading questions, your brain provides the answer they are leading you to, so you think its your idea. (they repeat that hundreds of times).

The MKP catchphrase also directly targets the IDENTITY of the person..."WHO YOU ARE".
Standard and classic stuff. Target the core identity of the person, and break then down in 48 hrs.
They can do it too.

The techniques have developed and been refined for decades now, everyone copying from everyone else, and refining them based on constant experimentation on real people.
Stay the hell away from people who openly BRAG about being able to break down your IDENTITY in 48 hrs. See how they enjoy bragging out in the open like that? Bad warning sign.

The only thing worse is when the same techniques are used by a LGAT seminar retreat, that does the opposite, and tells you its just a little "spiritual workshop" then hits vulnerable people between the eyes with a couple hundred powerful techniques group influence ever designed.
They can break down your core identity in 48 hrs, more than the last 20 years of your life, especially when people don't know what is going on. To the trained eye, that MKP catchphrase is like a loaded gun being pointed directly at your forehead.


Mankind Project leading question with embedded presupposition:
"Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"

Answer:
No, actually I am not ready to have the Mankind Project LGAT seminar systems set me up to have my core Identity broken down with 48 hrs of extreme persuasion techniques, to soften my mind up to enrol in countless other MKP project courses and clean out my bank account. I prefer to explore issues of Identity in a private and personal manner which are none of MKP's business.
I will NEVER allow MKP or any other seminar corporation to directly target the sense of Identity at the core of every personality, and then destabilize it, break it down, smash it, and try to reprogram it in 48 hrs to serve the interests of MKP.

Now MKP referral sales rep...here's a loaded question:

Are you ready to get the hell off my property in 10 seconds before tasting a little rocksalt square in your MKP behind that'll probably hurt more than anything you've felt in the past 20 years?

Hi, I'm new to this. I was surfing the net and saw these posts and thought I'd comment.

Yes. I'm an elder in the ManKind project. I've gone through a lot of the posts here and there's a lot of emotion directed towards the organization.
Some things are valid and some are not.

As to the issue raised here about an association with this James Arthur Ray, here's an answer.

[mankindproject.org]

"Are you affiliated with James Arthur Ray or the Spiritual Warrior Training?

The ManKind Project is in no way associated with James Arthur Ray or the Spiritual Warrior Training. We are deeply saddened and extend our heartfelt condolences to those affected by the October 2009 tragedy in Sedona, Arizona."

I hope that provides an acceptable response.

Thank you.

FloatingFreeBear

Quote
The Anticult
There's gotta be a direct connection with the Mankind Project fake sweatlodges and James Arthur Ray.
James Ray could have done some of the MKP courses, is there any evidence of this?

James Arthur Ray - Mankind Project New Warrior Training [forum.culteducation.com]

Which year did the Mankind Project LGAT start using the fake sweat lodge? They say they have been doing them for 24 years.
So its very possible and likely that James Ray just copied the MKP methods, then modified them himself.

Is there actual proof that the Mankind Project also uses plastic or other non-breathable material on their fake sweat lodge?
If so, that shows a modification they designed to create oxygen deprivation.

New Warrior Training Adventure® is trying to do some serious PR [mankindproject.org] to distance themselves from James Ray, like everyone else in the New Age and LGAT business.

The Mankind Project sounds extremely dangerous, just from their catchphrase alone.

Mankind Project QUOTE: "Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"

The MKP catchphrase is an extremely serious warning sign, they say right there they can and will break you down in 48 hrs, more than 20 years of life experience.
The MKP catch-phrase also has the embedded suggestive PRESUPPOSITION "are you ready" in the form of a question, which is a deliberate verbal technique.
The question is permissive influence, they ask you the leading questions, your brain provides the answer they are leading you to, so you think its your idea. (they repeat that hundreds of times).

The MKP catchphrase also directly targets the IDENTITY of the person..."WHO YOU ARE".
Standard and classic stuff. Target the core identity of the person, and break then down in 48 hrs.
They can do it too.

The techniques have developed and been refined for decades now, everyone copying from everyone else, and refining them based on constant experimentation on real people.
Stay the hell away from people who openly BRAG about being able to break down your IDENTITY in 48 hrs. See how they enjoy bragging out in the open like that? Bad warning sign.

The only thing worse is when the same techniques are used by a LGAT seminar retreat, that does the opposite, and tells you its just a little "spiritual workshop" then hits vulnerable people between the eyes with a couple hundred powerful techniques group influence ever designed.
They can break down your core identity in 48 hrs, more than the last 20 years of your life, especially when people don't know what is going on. To the trained eye, that MKP catchphrase is like a loaded gun being pointed directly at your forehead.


Mankind Project leading question with embedded presupposition:
"Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"

Answer:
No, actually I am not ready to have the Mankind Project LGAT seminar systems set me up to have my core Identity broken down with 48 hrs of extreme persuasion techniques, to soften my mind up to enrol in countless other MKP project courses and clean out my bank account. I prefer to explore issues of Identity in a private and personal manner which are none of MKP's business.
I will NEVER allow MKP or any other seminar corporation to directly target the sense of Identity at the core of every personality, and then destabilize it, break it down, smash it, and try to reprogram it in 48 hrs to serve the interests of MKP.

Now MKP referral sales rep...here's a loaded question:

Are you ready to get the hell off my property in 10 seconds before tasting a little rocksalt square in your MKP behind that'll probably hurt more than anything you've felt in the past 20 years?

Freefloatingbear:

puhleeassseee...

Obviously, you are not "new to this".
You were not surfing the net, you got something like a Google alert about MKP from the keywords, and came to post advertising and propaganda links to MKP.
Sounds like you are posting from a template.

You came to try and propagandize against being associated with James Arthur Ray, without even apparently reading what you replied to.

No one asked if MKP was affiliated with James Ray.
Of course the MKP sweatlodges and the James Ray bogus "sweat lodges" are linked. They are both an terrible abuse of a native american sacred tradition for profit.
They are both running damaging and dangerous LGAT seminars.

Mankind Project QUOTE: "Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"
[forum.culteducation.com]
That perverse catchphrase from MKP is analyzed at that link.

There are pages after pages of complaints against Mankind Project here.
[forum.culteducation.com]

MKP sounds like a very destabilizing and damaging LGAT seminar experience to be avoided at all costs.

Anyone have the WAIVER that MKP makes people sign before they attend their seminars, so we can post it in the thread?

Dear AntiCult,

hello and Good Morning. i'm unsure what you mean by a "Google alert about MKP from the keywords"... i was surfing and i saw this and i read through the posts. i then requested an ID (signed up). i saw your posts and and i then Searched the internet to learn more about James Arthur Ray and i went back to the MKP website and then searched on his name. i was curious to find out if anything was mentioned about him. i was surprised there was. sorry you don't believe me.

there is no association between James Arthur Ray and MKP. the tems "warrior" have been used by many different people who have no association with MKP. for example, author Dan Millman wrote a book named "The Peaceful Warrior" and he has no association with MKP. there are other organizations that use the term "Spiritual Warrior" but have nothing to do with James Arthur Ray nor MKP.

i don't know nor understand why you believe there is an association between James Arthur Ray and MKP

the MKP sweat lodge that MKP was "gifted" by a Native American many years ago. since is was gifted by a Native American, it has the approval of Native American to use it. no, they are not abusing it. yes, i read your post. i posted the MKP link to the FAQ which hopefully will address many of the queries. as far as "propagandize against Ray"? no, i'm just stating facts.

yes, you are entitled you an opinion about LGAT seminars. yes, i am in agreement that there are many who should never attend LGAT seminars. i am not in agreement that everyone should never attend LGAT seminars (obviously), and, of course, i don't believe that MKP should be shut down.

i am not here to attack anyone and i don't mind engaging in a calm conversation. I also don't mind a gentle debate.

floatingfreebear

Quote
The Anticult
Freefloatingbear:

puhleeassseee...

Obviously, you are not "new to this".
You were not surfing the net, you got something like a Google alert about MKP from the keywords, and came to post advertising and propaganda links to MKP.
Sounds like you are posting from a template.

You came to try and propagandize against being associated with James Arthur Ray, without even apparently reading what you replied to.

No one asked if MKP was affiliated with James Ray.
Of course the MKP sweatlodges and the James Ray bogus "sweat lodges" are linked. They are both an terrible abuse of a native american sacred tradition for profit.
They are both running damaging and dangerous LGAT seminars.

Mankind Project QUOTE: "Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"
[forum.culteducation.com]
That perverse catchphrase from MKP is analyzed at that link.

There are pages after pages of complaints against Mankind Project here.
[forum.culteducation.com]

MKP sounds like a very destabilizing and damaging LGAT seminar experience to be avoided at all costs.

Anyone have the WAIVER that MKP makes people sign before they attend their seminars, so we can post it in the thread?

floatingfreebear:

The gift and approval of one Native American regarding a "sweat lodge" is not authoritative.

MKP does not have the official blessings of Native Americans to use their religious ceremonies, symbols or beliefs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This article expresses the outrage the overwhelming majority of Native Americans and their leaders feel about the "bastardized version " of the "sweat lodge" by various groups like James Arthur Ray and MKP.

Quote

Anyone have the WAIVER that MKP makes people sign before they attend their seminars, so we can post it in the thread?

Try asking on the 'ex_MKP 'Yahoo Group at:

[groups.yahoo.com]

I believe that many of the manuals and documents are available there.

ST

hi mr. ross,

i wish you well this morning.

you make a valid point here and i will do a bit of research.

thank you.

floatingfreebear

Quote
rrmoderator
floatingfreebear:

The gift and approval of one Native American regarding a "sweat lodge" is not authoritative.

MKP does not have the official blessings of Native Americans to use their religious ceremonies, symbols or beliefs.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This article expresses the outrage the overwhelming majority of Native Americans and their leaders feel about the "bastardized version " of the "sweat lodge" by various groups like James Arthur Ray and MKP.

floatingfreebear:

You are clearly not being direct or honest about Mankind Project.
Since you say you are an "elder" in MKP, so you know that the MKP seminar bootcamps are run with military precision.
(and the term Elder, is another native american term being ripped off).

For a "man's man" warrior, why are asking for a gentle debate? WTF?
(are we being punked by the anti-MKP satirist from YouTube?) [www.youtube.com]

Is MKP gentle with peoples minds? Of course not.
That is bait & switch.

Sadly, the technique of MKP works. They seem to somewhat target the "SNAG".(Sensitive New Age Guy).
Then they kick his ass and hammer on the guy's mind with intense LGAT seminar boot camps.

There is no gentle and soft debate when dealing with these techniques, that is a trap.

And the James Ray bogus use of the sweatlodge, and the MKP bogus use of the fake sweatlodge are LINKED. James Ray probably attended MKP, or a variant, and thought..."hey I like this sweatbox torture test faux Shaman Warrior scam".
James Ray probably got the idea for using plastic and non-breathable materials from MKP.

MKP just wants to try to distance themselves from the New Age exploitation of native american ceremonies.
But what MKP is doing is a SERIOUS form of "blasphemy", if you will.

It would be like anyone from the street putting on the robes of a priest, and handing out communion in exchange for money.
Or anyone from the street putting on the sacred traditions of any sacred ceremony, and then play-acting it, and charging money. Its outrageous.

The MKP faux sweatlodge is at minimum "blasphemy", and its a serious insult to those who cherish the tradition as part of their culture. Hopefully MKP will be forced to stop it by public pressure.
Do the native american organizations even know that MKP also runs these faux sweatboxes for profit? Someone could let them know what is going on, even with some blog comments so they can be notified of what MKP has been doing for years.


__________QUOTE__________________________
James Arthur Ray / Mankind Project - Deaths from Sweatlodges
[forum.culteducation.com]
============

An ex-MKP Warrior reports:

Make no mistake, the type of sweat lodge used in Arizona, air tight and lightless, is very much like the sweat lodges run by MKP.

I have been to MKP sweat lodges with 40 men in them, a number that is close to the 50 number of people in the lodge in Arizona, and I have been in sweats that have lasted well over an hour. The MKP time line leaves almost two hours for the sweat.

At my NWTA, I left the sweat lodge because I couldn't breathe. A couple of other guys left also. There was no oxygen tank around, nor a first aid kit, as MKP claims. Yes, there most likely was a man who knew how to do CPR on the weekend but was he even by the sweat lodge? He could have been a mile away back at the camp.

Once I got out of the sweat lodge, I could finally breathe. I told the leaders that I couldn't breathe in there and they said to me, "haven't you ever been to a steam room at a gym?" Well, the air tight and lightless MKP sweat lodge is hardly a steam bath!

I was wet, naked and shivering cold. I asked to go to the fire and warm myself and I was told "NO!" by the leaders. They said I had to stand next to the sweat lodge and put my hands on the outside of the plastic covering so that I could "feel the positive energy inside."

I did that for a while shivering and shaking in the cold NOVEMBER moring air which created patches of frost on the ground. I eventually went by the fire to warm myself anyway. I told them that I didn't give a &*$% about their "positive energy!"

Don't be fooled by MKP. Their sweat lodges are not exactly the "safe" and pleasant experiences that they claim them to be.
______________________________________

This post and comments address some of the secrecy and damage waivers people sign.
But they are not going transparent, just trying to appear more so.
[wthrockmorton.com]


the suicide of Michael Scinto
[wthrockmorton.com]

Here are some of the activities described:

• Blindfolded walking tours in the nude;

• People blowing sage smoke in his face while 50 or so naked men danced around candles;

• Men sitting naked in a circle discussing their sexual histories while passing a wooden dildo called “The Cock”;

• Naked men beating cooked chickens with a hammer.