Good AFternoon everyone.

I've communicated with the MKP Executive Director, Carl Griesser, and my request to release training manuals has been turned down.

Here is his response:

At [... The MKP Annual Winter Meeting, we’ll be discussing the possibility of being much more transparent with our processes (which I favor), and I’m waiting to see where that discussion leads. If that approach is supported, I will probably approach Rick directly...

I am still able, though, to do my own research. However, I need to know what Center this occurred in.

Additionally, here is my response to the MKP Executive Director.

Crit
============================================================================================

Carl, Good afternoon. Yes, there is quite a bit of info on Ross' website. 87 pages representing about 3 years worth of discussion. Hmmm. I guess The Annual Winter meeting coming up in a few weeks ia a good time for discussion on this.

If you will, as an ex-CD, I would like to make a proposal (for what it's worth coming from an ex-member).

I believe that a situation as what I shared below, would warrant:

1. An update to the MKP Ethics Policy
2. A discussion and announcement to the LKS, Leader & CD bodies
3. Perhaps a protocol written.

And Carl, what amazes me (and maybe it shouldn't) is that a Leader of the sweat could do this and the 5 other volunteers of the sweat would say nothing to anyone!!!

I'm glad to hear that you're in support of making the processes more available to the public. Perhaps since it's the year 2009, your organization may not need to be so stringent and adhering to past pre-christianity models.

Signing off on this thread and Happy New Year.

Crit

All,

It worries me that there have been no posts to this forum other than mine.

I'm unsure as to what your intentions are. Are they positive or are they negative? Are they helpful or are they hurtful?

I need to hear from you.

Crit

Hello All,

Crit here. Back from a trip. And there are no posts here.

So, I go no further.

Rick, do you have any suggestions?

Crit

bcfreeman:

Maybe no one wishes to dialog with you?

Perhaps they see you as an MKP apologist.

In any event it's up to them to post or not to post.

Given the length of this thread maybe the general sentiment is that there is nothing left to say that has not been already said?

All,

I realize that I forgot to update you all on my Mom first.

She was in the hospital until Friday at which time her doc released her. He said that she would be on the meds for a long time until the clotting resolved itself. Unfortunately, she was feeling ill last nite and has now been placed back in the hospital as of this writing. I had taken pictures of her leg and sent them to her doc. One is attached here.

Rick, thank you for your response.

I'm drawn to resolutions. I believe that I've made a good faith effort to help and assist in doing so.

If you are correct in your assumptions, than that makes me sad. I am capable in resolving issues and as you can see from the posts from Carl Griesser, MKP Exec Director, he seems to be interested in reaching out also. Where that might go? I pray towards resolution.

Of course, I am not a part of MKP since 2006 and I have no idea what is going on.

Anyway, as you can tell I have other priorities right now. And Mom is NUMBER ONE!!!

So, I must say goodbye to this thread and I wish you all good luck and a prosperous 2009.

Rick you may now remove my id.

Crit

P.S. Wasn't that some Inauguration!!!???!!! IT WAS DA BOMB!!!!

The Mankind Project is a cult - a white collar cult. It's crazy that a bunch of men who like sitting naked around a fire and hanging out with dildos think they know how to turn boys into men. Come on, how stupid can people be? Mankind Project supporters are either power hungry, unaware they have been brainwashed, or just completely insane and enjoy playing with a person's psyche. The Mankind Project is the devil's playground. And the devil can be slick - look how he's got supporters fooled. It's very, very sad.

Bumpitity bump!!! Wonder what the latest scam is with MKP?

A men's weekend years ago changed my life. It put me in touch with my Male energy. Previously, I was the guy that woman loved to be friends with.
But nothing more. It helped transform me in a good way. On the other hand it could be a cult. I avoid the organizational crap. I just belong
to a small group of men that meet once every two weeks. We support each other in life difficulties. We work on some of our emotional stuff.
I trust them and they trust me.
I was part of the cult Emissaries of Divine Light for twenty five years. So I understand cultic thinking. I am still working on exploring the idea
that mankind project could be a cult.

Goldman:

Personal attacks will not be allowed.

Hello everyone,

I have been reviewing these posts for the last couple of days. I came on here about a year ago to try to get some perspective and yes, to vent but my sponsor threatened to stop talking to me if I continued. Well I'm back and I get to decide. I spent 4 very active years in the MKP/WW organization. Like so many, I poured myself into it and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread - until I got divorced from my abusive MKP husband. I will credit Ww for helping me with some things - I learned to reconnect and empathize with other women, learned how to face conflict (and how not to!), and to get in touch with me feelings/body. I also credit it with helping me to find the spirituality that works for me.

Like so many others, I got to my woman within weekend through 12-step recovery. My ex went to his MKP weekend first and relentlessly pushed me until I went less than a year later. At my core, I knew that things would change. I viewed these women as strong, no BS women and knew that once I went through, I would have the strength to leave him. I "enjoyed" the weekend so much that I began immediately staffing and doing as much as I could withing the organization. I flew to other regions to staff. I was on a high. I finally "belonged" to a group that was trying to better themselves. I soon figured out that getting mentally, physically, sexually, financially and psychologically abused wasn't what I wanted for my life and left the bastard. I had been in lots of denial and never really saw it as "abuse" before. So I was angry - very angry. I tried to let people in the community know what he had been doing to me. After all, it was a "safe container" and I needed to "have my feelings about it all" and they all loved me right? Yeah, for about a month. Then, they started turning blind eye and didn't want to hear it. I felt crazy. I'd go to graduations/celebrations and see all these people hugging on my ex and shunning me. He spent tons of money staffing locally and all over the world. He continued to do other seminars offered by MKP and those associated with it. He spent $2,500 going to ABC (Advanced Behavior Change) towards the end of our marriage. This is done co-ed and over 6 weekends through a 6 month period. My ex was and still is a horrible sex addict and ABC is run by another sex addict and was passed down by one. So my husband began having an affair with one of his "sisters" in ABC. When I tried to address this with my ex, he of course, denied it. The leader of ABC told him to take it to the group and the group decided that the things he was doing were ok. I had an hour phone conversation with this "leader" and his response was, "Well if I find he is having an affair, I will personally apologize to you". Well that made me feel SO much better!

The next woman my ex started seeing (while we were still married) got involved with WW. Not long afterward, I was called to the presidents of the board's house where I was berated, shamed, belittled and told that I was pretty much no longer welcomed. Some of the things I was told was that I was not whole, had too many issues, was full of drama. I am certain the final straw came when I questioned one of the leaders who was showing favoritism to some women over the others. Apparently you don't question the old guard.

One of the things I had a problem with is that there is a staffing committee. It is not made public who is on the staffing committee and members of the community are not allowed to go to or have access to minutes of the board meetings. So if anyone has a complaint, there is no place to take it besides to one of the leaders who may just dismiss you. So I challenged the selection of the committee. The same old, crusty, political women have been on the committee forever. There are apparently "guidelines" to selecting staff, but those are followed when they feel like being followed. These women have NO LIMITS on the amount of time that they serve and no one to keep them in check. When I asked about term limits and said that even the president has them, it went largely ignored, but apparently pissed off the old cronies. This is a glorified sorority. It is stagnant. Numbers and $ is dwindling. It looks good on the outside. THere are LOTS of therapists and community leaders, BUT if you are poor or have limited income, you're shit out of luck.

I thought that surely the women at the top of the organization, Tosi and the board would want to know that there was a kink in the armour and fix it, but my e-mails got dismissed. If you go onto their website and look at the boards minutes, their only concern is getting more women to join and making more money. They will not address problems in the organization.

In the recent story about the man that committed suicide in Houston and the claim that MKP-Houston would change the wording on their website, I am not surprised that they are not. This is the same thing that is going on with my ex. He was represented by another warrior brother and has violated the decree on numerous occasions. While I think there are some people in the organization that may be genuinely good people, there are many, many more that are not. It's all very, very political. My ex is now married to a woman who comes from a place where women are docile and obedient. He hits her and leaves bruises on her and is even worse than he was with me. I was encouraged by a member of the MKP "ethics committee" to write a letter to the committee. I have NEVER heard back from them and this violent psycho is moving up through the ranks and now has various leadership duties.

I really helped me to read where someone posted so many of the men there hit their wives. In my opinion in being highly involved for a number of years, I think MKP members are taught to hate strong women.

If I seem angry, I still am to a point and I fear retaliation b/c of all the pretty specific information I've been given. I was at a graduation the other day and a new "brother" said there was a lot of BS on the internet about MKP and told those in attendance not to listen. I know people will call me bitter and f'd up and all of the other things, but I want to bring this cult into the light.