Yea, wow, you can say that again!

Okay, I have so much to say but where to begin?
I'll start, here....

"I am not educated on LGAT or any cult-awareness tips"

This says a lot and begs the question, "then why are you here?"

In my opinion of what you said, you said a lot but a lot of nothing.
I expect that people who are involved are not going to reveal much, if anything, ever.

All I know is it is a highly secretive organization, with questionable methods and outcomes, that sucks tons of money away from its members (not to mention their time)--all in the name of personal growth.

Me=bah, humbug!!

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck; it's a duck!

*hands the glass of kool-aid back to her friend and changes the channel on the tv*

Hello All,

I'm reading the back posts and commenting on some things...

what2do wrote:

1. "RU?ing, I am fascinated with this material. Please keep it coming. I am so appreciative of this information. It gives me a handle on this group of nutcases. It makes me angry this bunch of crap cost $600.00. I hope the people at the top are enjoying the millions they must be raking in."


No one is raking in millions. ABsolutely no one. Again, for the majority of centers. they are lucky if they break even.

2. feldspar, how are you doing five years later. What made you want to join, and what made you leave MKP? Did you have any of the things I posted about happen to you? I was surprised by your post. You are the first person I have ever seen that actually was a member, then left. Most of what I have learned has been from posts here. However, they are from spouses, or people who have not physically been.

Actually, the majority of men that go through the weekend retreats do not stay invovled in the organization. The 80/20 rule applies, even in MKP. That is 80% of the work is done by 20% of the organization.

For me years there has always been and always will be a dialogue going on in the organization about “attrition”. Why is it that many do not stay involved and active?” Personally, when I was a chapter president, I didn’t bother wasting my time on whether or not someone wanted to stay with the local organization. Whatever their reasons was ok with me. I was only concerned with those who wanted to be active and invovled.
===============================================================================================

Crit

Hello All,

Well I just finished reading page # 6. hehe, you seemed to have had quite a "fun" time with seedjoe.

Yes, I do recognize who seedjoe is, by the name itself. I can assure you that he is no Nazi and as you can read, loves the MKP organization.

At a time when the organization seemed to be imploding (translation: men fighting with themselves (yeah, ego), Joe was instrumental in calming things down and getting men to work together. It's one of his talents.

Generally, he is a humble & very caring man.

I'm sorry that things got heated for all on this particular thread.

I'll keep reading. I'm hoping that things worked themselves out ok.

But.....

Crit

bcfreeman:

Please don't waste everyone's time here.

You seem to be an apologist here to defend MKP.

Hello all,

I'm still awake. I guess just worrying about my Mom. Reading here keeps my mind off of the home problems.

This has all been quite interesting to read.

RU?ing wrote: "How do you feel knowing that untrained men were using powerful gestalt and jungian psychology on you?"

I'll share with you my experience when I went through waaaaaaaaaaaay back in Jan. 1993.

Personally, I didn't want to know what went on during the weekend. Why? Because I was the type that if I knew what was going to happen I would "pre-plan" my responses. I wanted the experience to be completely fresh.

So, for me, I was in a group of 28 men, down around Houston, TX at a camp in the woods.

Friday night? 27 men were pissed off and 1 man was chuckling. I was that 1 man.

I saw through all of the "processes" and the way people were behaving was quite funny to me.

Sat. Morning when I woke up, I thought to myself "Is this why you came down here? To laugh at what's being said & done? Or didn't you want to learn more about yourself from this? So, I let go of my "ego arrogance" and started to push myself to participate more fully.

Keep in mind though that I'm not a "follow-the-leader" type.

However, at that time, I was still a very "shut-down" emotionally cut-off type of man. Never feeling quite able to speak my mind and judging it was OK to get my feelings out. I learned a few things from MKP that gave me, well, vocal & emotional freedom.

I found ways to open up and get out my thoughts and emotions. One tool was called a 4 quadrant communication model:
That is, expressing oneself in terms of feelings, data, judgements and wants". That tool really helped me to open up.

Later on, I'll share with you some of the conflicts that came up.

Have a good day!

Crit

Hello all,

Just finished reading Page 18. I believe the women are correct. I would say that the men on some weekends, in the past, may not have been given good advice on how to share with their spouses/wives/partners/etc on the question "What went on?"

And, it does require a bit of critical thinking for a person to realize that there are things/ways to explain what went on that do not break the confidentiality of the agreements. Make it a both/and as opposed to an either/or.

Ginah, what center/location did your husband's experiences occur in?

Crit

Hello,

It's 10:42AM.

I'm back from the hospital where I took my Mom to last nite. She's been diagnosed as having a very large blood clot in her left leg, that's basically the big concern right now. Beyond that, she was in great spirits.

Ok. I'm up to page 38 of the postings. So, I'm gonna hold off on making any more comments, keep reading until the end and wait for you guys to ask any questions you may have of me.

Thanks and have a great day!

Crit

Quote
bcfreeman
Hello all,

Just finished reading Page 18. I believe the women are correct. I would say that the men on some weekends, in the past, may not have been given good advice on how to share with their spouses/wives/partners/etc on the question "What went on?"

And, it does require a bit of critical thinking for a person to realize that there are things/ways to explain what went on that do not break the confidentiality of the agreements. Make it a both/and as opposed to an either/or.

Ginah, what center/location did your husband's experiences occur in?

Crit

As I have been threatened by MKP I will not give out any such information Crit.

I completely agree with ILike2WatchTV, if something walks like a duck, quacks like a duck; it's most likely a duck!
*hands the glass of kool-aid back to Crit saying she does not want it thank you very much.

Hello All,

Whew!!!! OK, first things first.

My Mom was diagnosed with a very large blood clot in her left leg and she is now on an ordered "Bed Rest". That means she can't even get up to walk to the toilet. She MUST use the bed pan. LOL, as stubborn as my Mom is, you know she doesn't like that!!! They'ver wrapped up her leg and have it propped up on a pillow. A surgeon has come and reviewed her and decided "NO" to surgery. So, it looks like they will be relying on the anticoagulants to dissolve the clot.

Yeah, she's cranky (hehe).

Second. I've now gone through the entire 87 pages of posts and made some decisions.

1. I'm not going to defend MKP.
2. I'm not going to try to clarify or explain anything unless someone asks me to.
3. You've all been through a lot here on this thread and don't need another "MKPer" or "ex-MKPer" doing the "same ole, same-ole"
I'm sure that would be quite boring.
4. It was interesting in that I could tell by the names (or handles), who 2 of the men were you had been communicating with.
One man was a "New Warrior Executive Director" (before the organization changed its name to MKP).
5. Another was a "Weekend Leader".

Anyway, a statement was made to me about sharing on this list MKP training manuals. I've given that some thought and I've put out a request to the MKP Executive Director, requesting permission to share a trianing manual here on this forum. I'll let you know what he says.

Clearly there have been people hurt via MKP. I'm not going to deny these events and I'm not going to call anyone a liar.

On the issue of a "Sweat Lodge" leader who put forth a invitiation of men to grab the dick of the man next to him. I'm very glad that your husband reported this behavior. I believe more should have been done. I believe that "Sweat Lodge" facilitator should have been suspended for a time. However, I honestly don't know any real details. But, I'd like the group's (or however it works) permission to pursue this with the organization.
By pursuing, I mean requesting of the men at the top to make it a part of the organization's Ethics Policy that such nonsense does not happen again and that there is awareness in the org as to what things are "oof-limits".

Beyond that, I'm a bit frazzled running to the hospital twice a day.

You know, My Mom and I had just ordered a "Stair Lifter" for her because of the difficulty she was having in climbing the stairs. That's about $3,500. And now it looks like the heater is leaking. That may mean another $4,000 for a water boiler replacement heater.

Life!!! When it rains it pours!!!

LOL

Have a great day everyone.

Crit

Good Morning all,

First things first.

My Mom is getting better. When I saw her today, she was more energetic and didn't seem to be as cold and much more aware. The swollenness of her left leg seem much less. She will still be in the hostpital probably into Tuesday of this week.

Now, I've decided to investigate the incident of the leader of the sweat lodge who put out an invitation to men to touch another's genitals.

As there are at least 5 other men present in a sweat lodge, I am VERY surprised that THEY did not report his behavior.

My investigation will include finding out what that particular community did to ensure that such an incident did NOT ever occur again. I have already make the MKP Executive Director aware of this incident and that it was NOT a fanciful story. I believe that he will investigate further at this point. I will keep in touch with him.

I believe that such an incident requires an update to the MKP Ethics Policy AND a directive to the Sweat Lodge Body (of MKP) that such invitations WHICH ARE A SEVERE crossing of human boundaries must NEVER occur again AND that all center directors are aware of such an incident and also given a directive.

The MKP Executive Director had an idea of where the incident occurred. However, I would like to know exactly which chapter, so that I may contact them directly.

This requires trust on the part of the people here to take a risk.

Are there any other incidents that anyone would like me address. Specific incidents!

Thank you.

Crit.

BTW, to give you more information about me...
My name is Barry Crittenden Freeman. Born in New Brunswick, NJ. I am 54 years old and Black American (picture attached to this msg). I have a website (not a business one) that tells a little more about me and my interests and background. It is www.website37.com. Everyone calls me by my middle name and that is what I answer to. I inform people my name is Crittenden (or Crit). That's all for now.

Ciao and enjoy your Sunday