It's roughly a month since my b/f went to his NWT weekend. He called me as soon as he had cell service again, and then he called as soon as he got home. He wanted to share his feelings and experiences from the weekend with me. He did not feel prohibited from sharing - but did feel that he was still processing some things and was not ready to tell me. In a nutshell he thought it was the most transformative experience he had ever had in his whole life. He felt a greater connection to others than he had ever experienced before. He felt that he had felt empathy for the first time in his life - I would suggest this is more aspirational on his part rather than reality.

Overwhelmingly I feel that he is more self absorbed after returning from NWT than he was before.

At his invitation I attended his graduation. I was reminded of a bunch of little boys who had formed their own secret society and found it amusing that they were keeping everyone else out. Someone would make some bizarre comment and they would all snicker. The men did not seem to have any real interest in meeting/speaking with the women in the room, other than to make sure that the women were supportive of the program.

The graduation ended with everyone getting into a circle someone saying a prayer, and then the men all saying "we are not alone." I have never felt more alone in my whole entire life. After the formal part of the graduation there was more chit chat (as there had been before) and once again I was left standing on the side, not being included. During all our years together, my b/f had never excluded me like that before., at the very least he always made sure we were at each others sides. That night I was for all intents and purposes standing int he corner.

Last week he had his first i group meeting. He felt it was great, he felt supported, he felt the guys gave him really great advice - specifically on how to gain a relationship with his son (he would say repair, but I don't feel they have one). Interesting that they told him to do the same things I've been saying for years, me (who actually knows and has a realtionship with his son) he ignores, them he listens to.

I hope to heaven this group brings something to his life that he has been lacking. I am not sure how much longer I can stick it out with this man. But as long as I do, I will try to post updates (relating to MKP), certainly more regularly than once a month - please excuse that, but I had a bit of a crisis in my own life that I am still trying to deal with - on my own without any help from him, of course.

At the moment I am seriously toying with the idea of reaching out to the his friend's wife to find out why she thought this would have been a good thing for her husband to join and why she thought it would help her marriage. I don't want to be intrusive or pry, but I just don't understand how this group is supposed to lead men to a life of service (as they claim), when so far I've only seen it exclude and diminish others who are not involved.

All the best everyone!

Don't forget that MKP exists to extract increasingly large amounts of money from those who attend, their endless cycle of MKP seminars.

All of the marketing and sales talk about healing relationships is a sham, as can be seen time and time again, in how MKP damages relationships.

MKP is a very sophisticated LGAT seminar, which literally BOMBARDS men who have no training in these areas of sophisticated group persuasion, and can seriously mess up their lives.


Here is the deceptive and manipulative Mankind Project catchphrase which contains a leading question with an embedded presupposition:
"Are you ready to learn more about who you are in 48 hours than you’ve probably learned in the last 20 years?"

Stay the hell away from people who openly BRAG about being able to break down your IDENTITY in 48 hrs. To the trained eye, that MKP catchphrase is like a loaded gun being pointed directly at your forehead. [forum.culteducation.com]




The MKP faux-sweatlodge can lead to serious trouble. Look at what happened with the deaths in the case of James Arthur Ray faux-sweatlodges. [forum.culteducation.com]


Mankind project, DECEPTION, LIES, MANIPULATION, and more lies. [forum.culteducation.com]

Inattentional blindness [forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2010 10:39PM by The Anticult.

By the way, it appears that MKP at first used a little material from Robert Bly, Robert L. Moore, and Douglas Gillette, concerning the "men's movement".
In reality, that "men's movement" material is now a front, a distraction.

Obviously to the trained-eye, MKP has taken massive amounts of techniques from LGAT seminars, and other deceptive and manipulative methods, used to hook men into these escalating series of MKP seminars.

Unfortunately, the people they are targeting get seduced by the sales-pitch of the "men's movement" but that is just the superficial "content" that is used as a salespitch and a distraction, as that is how LGAT seminars operate.

MKP is something to be avoided at all costs.

Anticult I appreciate your passion on this subject, however I have not been able to find any factual documentation to support that MKP is a pyramid scheme, multi level marketing, or any other profit making enterprise. If you have proof of such I would appreciate your sharing it.

Please also explain how the tragic deaths in another oganization's sweat lodges can be attributed to this or any other group. The reality is that MKP has been in existence and using these techniques since 1983 and there have been no deaths during their weekends. There has been one suicide after the weekend - but I would question if that poor young man should have been participating in such an event.

I am not an apologist, I am very keenly interested in seeing facts on either side of the discussion. I believe the facts support the conclusion that MKP is an LGAT and the lack of training of the "staff" (in quotes because they are volunteers) makes that fact scary. I also agree that the Michael Scinto incident proves that they don't have adequate prescreening of participants, which indicates there is even greater risk.

However irrelevant, inflammatory statements only discredit your position in my opinion.

Sorry

curiousnycgirl, I'm so, sooo sorry for your experience at the graduation / "homecoming".

I definitely felt VERY upset when my husband came home talking a lot about 'not being alone any more.' We've been married for over 10 years, I gave birth to his two children, seriously, was he really "alone"? And if so, shouldn't he be talking to me and not them? He's clarified several times that he just meant 'alone as a man', that he didn't have any good male friends to draw on, but kept using the same language of being alone. Certainly I can understand that based on my close women friends, but the language itself is infuriating. I wonder if it's a common part of MKP-speak. Anyway, after getting really upset (crying or yelling) numerous times, he's stopped using that language ("I was alone", full stop), so that is better.

I was also incredibly uncomfortable at the homecoming. All these men my husband seemed to know so well, having long intimate conversations with them, big loving hugs, and I'd never seen them before in my life. I spoke with several of the men (ironically, and unhappily, none of the women seemed interested in talking with me at all) and I was very direct in how unhappy I was and my specific issues. So I did my own circulating, much to some of their chagrin, but I'm not leaving my husband, I'm ready to take on all of MKP!! Even if there are pockets where they do positive things, it seems that across the board men's partners are left in a ditch unless they can "have faith" and hope that something good will happen somehow, someday.

It sounds like you're going through a very rough time, and neither your boyfriend nor these men are doing anything at all to help your family. I'm so sorry. If you'd ever like to talk to another person who's excluded and unhappy, email me off-list and I'll send you my cell number. I'd be happy to chat. Otherwise, I look forward to your next update and really hope things look up for you.

Also, forgot to include...

The handbook I have says that families are supposed to be welcomed at the door, and also refers to a toast. I wonder if there is a new version of the handbook that leaves these out, or if people just stopped doing it. Neither of these things happened when I went:

"Recruit a team of men to greet all New Warrior Brothers and their guests... Toasting & Blessing: Clear chairs, graduates & staff form a circle (include guests if space permits). Leader introduces this experience as an opportunity for warrior brothers to give a toast "To the Women in Our Lives". Staff leader steps out and models the toast."
- 1998 New Warrior Initiation Adventure Protocol Book

@ curiousnycgirl

How many reported deaths are enough?

How do you know how many suicides have occured related to MKP events, and the depression that can hit after these types of LGAT seminars?
There are many suicides/psychoses/hospitalization that occur after these types of abusive seminars, its just that most of them never hit the media, and are only known by the family, and reported by them.


James Arthur Ray was warned about in these threads more than 2 years BEFORE 4 people ended up dead from his seminars. [forum.culteducation.com]

The faux "sweatlodges" of ManKind project have been shown to be the exact same bogus set-up as James Arthur Ray, using plastic in the roofing which causes oxygen deprivation, and pushing people to endure extreme heat.
James Arthur Ray / Mankind Project - Deaths from Sweatlodges [forum.culteducation.com]
That can cause internal organ damage, and cause problems for life.
That is not going to make the newspapers.

These threads are ahead of the curve, unlike the news media which reports on deaths after the fact, without looking into the causes.

No one said MKP was a pyramid scheme or MLM. That is misdirection.
Its an LGAT seminar system, and people need to do some serious research into LGAT seminars, and how they operate.

Because MKP says its "non-profit" means nothing.
All that means is they don't pay tax, the PROFITS are controlled by the few people who run MKP.
Where are the IRS 990 Forms for MKP?
A search online shows many of them don't even file those reports, so where they are spending the money cannot be monitored.

Search Google:

"mankind project" "form 990"



MKP is dangerous.
Someone's spouse attending one intial event, is only the beginning.
Some men are vulnerable and get sucked into these groups for years.

Those who have carefully studied these groups for years, can see very quickly what they are really trying to do.
The public needs to a serious warning.

The secrect and lies from MKP need to be exposed.
The MKP tactic of breaking down people's identity in 48 hrs is extremely dangerous, it can lead to a mental breakdown in certain people.
They are doing a similar scam as Landmark Education, but just with a different "content".

MKP is the one running a pattern of DECEPTION, from top to bottom. They deceive the men on purpose so they can "initiate" them.
The amount of lies that come out of the mouths of MKP apologists is right up there with the best. They deliberately lie to their new recuits and others, and feel justified doing so.



Still looking to locate all the actual WAIVERS for serious damages and harm that MKP forces people to sign on-site before attending.
Below are some excerpts.
It says that if MKP is negligent, and you end up with permanent trauma or disabilty, psychological damage or DEATH, then you have paid MKP to sign your life away to MKP.

No one should EVER sign such a outrageous "release" as the one from MKP excerpted below.
That is the deal-breaker right there. No one should ever sign such an obscene "release" as this one by MKP.

Notice the MKP obsession with "confidentiality", that is all about keeping their tactics SECRET, a standard LGAT technique.

MKP ManKind Project DEATH CLAUSES:

QUOTE: "The same elements which contribute to the unique character of the NWTA and the associated Activities can cause loss or damage to personal property, accidental injury, illness, or, in extreme cases, permanent trauma, disability, or death."
"I understand that this list is not complete and that other unknown or unanticipated risks may result in property loss, serious injury, illness, or death."
"In consideration of being able to participate in the NWTA, I, for myself and my Heirs, release and discharge MKP from all claims or causes of action, present or future, arising from physical, emotional, or psychological injury, death and/or property damage suffered by me or any other person, resulting directly or indirectly from my participation in the NWTA and the associated Activities, including, without limitation, injury or damage caused in whole or in part by errors in judgment and/or any other negligence of MKP."



----------------------

Participant Agreements:
Assumption of Risk, Indemnification & Release
New Warrior Training Adventure

....

1. Risks. I am participating in a program of personal growth and training for men sponsored and operated by MKP, known as the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA or the Training), the dates and location of which are given above. The NWTA will involve a variety of activities, including, but without limitation, strenuous, vigorous and challenging physical, mental, emotional and intellectual activities conducted indoors and outdoors during day and night (the Activities). The same elements which contribute to the unique character of the NWTA and the associated Activities can cause loss or damage to personal property, accidental injury, illness, or, in extreme cases, permanent trauma, disability, or death.
...

The risks discussed above include, but are not limited to:

- risks associated with outdoor physical activities (such as walking or running on uneven ground) including slips and falls, bruises, sprains, lacerations, fractures, and concussions;
- contact with plants, animals, snakes or insects that could cause stings, bites, allergies, or disease ;
- exposure to fire or heat from natural or manmade causes that could cause burns, dehydration, and fainting;
- exposure to cold, wet weather, and to other unpredictable forces of nature;
- exposure to the conduct of other NWTA participants;
- damage to property owned by me or by others;
- the failure or malfunction of equipment;
- inherent risks associated with being in a remote location, distant from medical facilities, where evacuation and medical care could be delayed;
- risks associated with traveling by land or air to and from the NWTA site or to and from a site of emergency medical care.

I understand that this list is not complete and that other unknown or unanticipated risks may result in property loss, serious injury, illness, or death.

...

I understand that certain medical and psychological conditions may increase the risk of my participation in the NWTA. I release and forever discharge MKP from any liability or claims for any injuries to me which are a direct or indirect result of my medical or psychological condition.



3. Assumption of risk. ...

I accept and assume full responsibility for all of the risks and hazards associated with participation in the NWTA, whether known or unknown, including, but not limited to, 1) injury, death, or loss of personal property and related expenses which I may suffer as a direct or indirect result of those inherent risks and dangers described in this Agreement as well as those not specifically described; and 2) any injury that I may cause to any other person or any damage that I may cause to the property of others, as a result of my negligence or wrongful conduct. I elect to participate in the NWTA with full knowledge of all known or unknown risks.
...

5. Release. In consideration of being able to participate in the NWTA, I, for myself and my Heirs, release and discharge MKP from all claims or causes of action, present or future, arising from physical, emotional, or psychological injury, death and/or property damage suffered by me or any other person, resulting directly or indirectly from my participation in the NWTA and the associated Activities, including, without limitation, injury or damage caused in whole or in part by errors in judgment and/or any other negligence of MKP.

I understand that by signing this Agreement, I surrender all rights to make a claim or file a lawsuit against MKP for personal injury, property damage, wrongful death, products liability (including strict liability), breach of warranty or contract, or under any other legal theory, unless the claim arises from the intentional wrongful act, recklessness, or gross negligence of MKP.

6. Nature of Release. This release, waiver, and indemnity Agreement is intended to be as broad and inclusive as permitted by the laws of the State of Illinois. If any portion of the Agreement is held invalid, the remainder of the Agreement will still continue in full legal force and effect.

7. Indemnification. I agree to indemnify and defend MKP against and hold MKP harmless from any claims arising out of my participation in the NWTA. The terms indemnify and defend mean that I will defend and protect MKP by payment or reimbursement for any costs or expenses incurred by MKP. This indemnification includes reimbursing MKP for reasonable attorneys fees and related costs of litigation, including discovery.

8. Confidentiality. I have signed the MKP Confidentiality Agreement which is incorporated into this Agreement by reference.

9. Health and Liability Insurance. I affirm that I have adequate health and/or other insurance to cover any injury or damage I may cause or suffer while participating in the Activities, or that I am financially able and agree to bear the costs of such injury or damage to myself, property, or others.

10. Medical Authorization. I hereby authorize MKP to obtain any reasonably necessary emergency, surgical, or other medical care for me, including hospitalization. I understand that MKP does not provide medical services during the NWTA weekend and is not responsible for ensuring the presence of any medical professionals at the NWTA. In the event that any representative, volunteer, affiliate or agent of MKP voluntarily administers emergency medical care to me, I hereby release such individual(s) from any and all liability with respect to such emergency medical care.

11. Mediation, Arbitration, Waiver of Right to Sue. I expressly agree that any claim or cause of action of any kind against MKP as a direct or indirect result of my participation in the Activities or NWTA, must first be submitted to mediation by a neutral third party, preferably a mediator who practices regularly under the auspices of the courts of the state where the MKP Center facilitating the NWTA is located. If after four (4) sessions, mediation is unsuccessful, the matter must then be submitted for a final and binding arbitration of my claims. Any such arbitration will be held in the state where the MKP Center facilitating the NWTA is located, and Illinois substantive law will apply in all such proceedings without regard to choice of law principles. I agree that any resulting arbitration award is final and binding upon both MKP and upon me and my Heirs, and by executing this Agreement I am expressly waiving any and all rights to litigate any such claim in any state or federal court. Any cause of action to enforce any arbitration award or any cause of action brought against MKP notwithstanding the waivers contained in this Agreement, must be brought in a court of competent jurisdiction in the state where the MKP Center facilitating the NWTA is located, and Illinois substantive law will apply. Any arbitrator chosen pursuant to this paragraph will be chosen from a list or lists supplied by the American Arbitration Association (AAA), with AAA rules to apply, and/or the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, or from any other mutually agreeable source.

12. Agreement Controlling. This release contains the entire agreement between MKP and me, and supersedes any and all other agreements or representations, written or oral.

I understand fully that by signing this Agreement, I waive my legal rights both to assert certain claims against MKP and to sue or otherwise assert any claims in a court of law. I agree that any dispute between MKP and me, or anyone representing me, or otherwise arising out of my participation in the Activities and the NWTA, must be submitted to final and binding arbitration. I fully understand the consequences of this waiver and acknowledge that I have had ample opportunity to ask questions regarding this Agreement. I have read the Agreement in its entirety, I understand the content and implications of the document, I sign this Agreement freely and voluntarily, and I agree to be legally bound by all of the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

The ManKind Project
Confidentiality Agreement
New Warrior Training Adventure



Participant Promise of Confidentiality

While participating in the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA), I will learn details of customs, protocols, traditions, exercises, rituals, processes and other information, in both oral and written form, which are proprietary and owned exclusively by The ManKind Project (the "Proprietary Information"). In addition, I may learn during the course of the NWTA information about other participants which is confidential (the "Confidential Information"). As an express condition of my participation in the NWTA, I agree that I will not reproduce, duplicate, copy, or otherwise disclose, in any form or manner, written or oral, any Proprietary Information without the express written permission of The ManKind Project (MKP). I further agree that I will not disclose in any form or manner, written or oral, any Confidential Information which I learn as a result of my participation in the NWTA. I may, however, share my personal experience of the NWTA as long as the confidentiality of both the Proprietary Information and the Confidential Information is maintained.

...

The ManKind Project
On-Site Agreement
...
I agree to respect the confidentiality of everything that occurs during the training, including all processes and everything the participants and staff say and do. I will keep all such information private and confidential.

--------------------------------------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 03:45AM by The Anticult.

Notice how these very damaging LGAT seminars all use similar methods in how they damage their own customers, as proven in the waivers they force their own people to sign before attending their LGAT seminar.

MKP ManKind Project
Participant Agreements:
Assumption of Risk, Indemnification & Release
New Warrior Training Adventure

(link to release waivers)
[forum.culteducation.com]
James Ray International:
Waiver of Liability,Assumption of Risk, Indemnity Agreement and
Disclaimer BY SIGNING THIS AGREEMENT YOU ARE WAIVING ALL RIGHTS TO COMPENSATION IN CASE OF INJURY.

Landmark waiver.

PSI seminars waiver

THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY
[forum.culteducation.com]

You have to read the MKP waiver at least 5 times, very slowly. They deliberately make it long and complicated, as they know most people won't read it.
Read this MKP whopper they make people sign..

That means YOU get to PAY for the MKP attorney's to defend MKP.

How many of those who have signed this, have even read it?
How many have first taken it to their own attorney for advice?
If a husband signs his life/death/injury away to MKP, then get bankrupted by the MKP process, one would assume that applies to his wife, family and heirs too.

No sane attorney would advise their client to sign this type of outrageous release.


----------------------
Assumption of Risk, Indemnification & Release
New Warrior Training Adventure

QUOTE:
"7. Indemnification. I agree to indemnify and defend MKP against and hold MKP harmless from any claims arising out of my participation in the NWTA. The terms indemnify and defend mean that I will defend and protect MKP by payment or reimbursement for any costs or expenses incurred by MKP. This indemnification includes reimbursing MKP for reasonable attorneys fees and related costs of litigation, including discovery."
------------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2010 04:04AM by The Anticult.

Anticult -

Those are very standard agreements and basically unenforceable in court. You cannot sign away rights you don't know about yet. I agree they would give me pause, but to tell the truth they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

I agree there is a HUGE risk of people who should not particpate in weekends such as these doing so - it does not appear they have any adeuqate safeguards in place to ensure those who participate are "up to it" for want of a better phrase. This is especially true if they are recruiting from 12 step programs, where people already have issues. I also agree the risk is unacceptably significant in that they practice things they are not qualified to do.

As far as the money goes - I'm sorry it's just not significant enough to be as you say, they are not collecting large amounts of money - and they do have costs to cover, including subsidizing folks who cannot afford it otherwise.

Hope that helps.