good morning mr. ross and all,

ok, i've read thoough some of the items mr. ross posted and some additional posts. thank you mr. ross.

and some are valid and some do not apply (in my opinion).

i don't want to be redundant and bore you all with what i've stated before.

so, i'll just say, thank you for the time and attention.

keep up the good work on giving people information so they can make their best decisions on LGAT attendance.

i appreciate your kindness and courtesy and i wish you all the best.

ffb

(sigh)

I haven't been here for awhile, and I hoped, hoped, that this cult had been put out of business. I am sad to see that it is still preying on the vulnerable.

midwest.momma;

As we both (sadly) know, as long as money is flowing ($$$) from insecure men (and modern society has made a TON of them) then this abomination will continue.

To all men out there thinking of the MKP...

"You are all MEN. Pay attention. You do NOT NEED to "play injun" (apologies to native americas) to be a man...YOU ARE ALREADY!"

Thank you

Love

Sparky

In case you all haven't figured it out yet, floatingfreebear is another mkp apologist. He thinks his nice words can cover up his denial of a sick, sick programme.

MKP ManKind Project also needs be exposed as abusing the native american traditions for profit.
MKP uses the native american and other traditions as a FIG-LEAF to hide behind.
When in fact, MKP runs the powerful and dangerous LGAT wilderness seminar techniques, and conceals them behind their faux sweat-lodges, and other perversions of sacred traditions. MKP uses these sacred traditions as a way to misdirect people from the real techniques being used, as explained here.
Inattentional blindness [forum.culteducation.com]

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Lakota Nation files lawsuit against parties in sweat lodge incident
[www.sedona.biz]

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[www.anorak.co.uk]
....
This time it’s the Lakota Indian nation of North and South Dakota that’s piling on.

The tribe has filed suit against the U.S. government, the State of Arizona, James Ray and the Angel Valley Retreat where Ray’s fatal sweat lodge ceremony was held on October 8th.

According to the lawsuit, the Lakota Nation considers its sweat lodge ceremony, the Oinikaga, one of the seven sacred rites of the Lakota.

The suit refers to the Treaty of Fort Laramie between the United States and the Lakota Nation from 1868, which says “if bad men among the whites or other people subject to the authority of the United States shall commit any wrong upon the person or the property of the Indians, the United States will (…) proceed at once to cause the offender to be arrested and punished according to the laws of the United States, and also reimburse the injured person for the loss sustained.”

The Lakota say Ray and the Angel Valley Retreat Center “violated the peace between the United States and the Lakota Nation.”

The lawsuit also claims Ray and the retreat center committed fraud by impersonating Indians and must be held responsible for causing the deaths of the victims and injuries of the survivors, and for the destruction of evidence through the dismantling of the sweat lodge.
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The Anticult
MKP ManKind Project also needs be exposed as abusing the native american traditions for profit.
MKP uses the native american and other traditions as a FIG-LEAF to hide behind.
When in fact, MKP runs the powerful and dangerous LGAT wilderness seminar techniques, and conceals them behind their faux sweat-lodges, and other perversions of sacred traditions. MKP uses these sacred traditions as a way to misdirect people from the real techniques being used, as explained here.
Inattentional blindness [forum.culteducation.com]

____________________

Absoooolutely. This really bothered me a great deal, too, when I first read of MKP. They were using spiritual rites without the spiritual intent. These ceremonies by the American Indian were very sacred and a part of their every day life--not some "weekend" thing to be done on occasion.

Quote
Sparky
midwest.momma;

As we both (sadly) know, as long as money is flowing ($$$) from insecure men (and modern society has made a TON of them) then this abomination will continue.

To all men out there thinking of the MKP...

"You are all MEN. Pay attention. You do NOT NEED to "play injun" (apologies to native americas) to be a man...YOU ARE ALREADY!"

Thank you

Love

Sparky

Yep. I am becoming more and more suspect of anyone who says you gotta pay the $$$ in order for them to help you spiritually. It doesn't make sense in the Jesus sort of way--I can't imagine Jesus saying "You gotta pay the dough out in order for me to help you." or Ghandi for that matter. Or Martin Luther King.

Regarding the money:

Apparently the MKP leaders don't experience any cognitive dissonance over the fact that while the Indians from whom they draw their "sacred" MKP rituals felt that no man was entitled to sell the vast land underneath them that belonged to God, The Mankind Project is perfectly justified to charge $600 smackers for a BAG OF GRANOLA and somemagic beans the call the New Warrior Training Experience.

One thing that made my ears perk up was when the leader was extolling the powerful virtues of this manly brotherhood (cough, cough). He said that the staff who outnumbered the initiates 2:1 felt so strongly about MKP that had to APPLY to be volunteers and pay their own entrance fee.

Then consider that another bunch of MKP "Brothers" drive in from hundreds of miles just to participate in the Saturday night dance like a big naked sock hop for a bunch of closeted fatties.

Yech. Itoccurred to me that my counselor had reffered me to be part of the nights entertainment. That bum is soooooooo fired. Good thing I can laugh about it. Seeing firsthand, the creepy looks on these mens faces while they rationalize their titillation as a male ritual was something I will never forget. I will be able to tell my children exactly what a predator looks and sounds like and how they weave a convincing alibi.

Ironically, they did say they'd make us better fathers.

If anyone thinks Seeking Truth's account is the least bit exaggerated, I am here to tell you that I swear before God and all I consider holy that what happened to me is not just "alot" like his account.....it was damn near EXACTLY like this. The only difference is that we didn't have anyone go completely bonkers. We did have a few guys really start wailing like wounded animals.

I got chills when he said the vast majority had been sexually abused, because 13of 18 men in my group had been sexually abused (either that or they saw fit to lie about it).........stunning.

Seeking Truth is obviously smarter than the average MKP bare, as am I, but wouldn't you think these poor abused bastards would recognize the modus operandi at play? Lies, coercion and rationalizations for secrecy?

And who really think these fat bastards drive in from all over to help these troubled unfortunates? They come to watch them and get pleasure from their coerced degredation.

MKP isn't looking for men who will serve others. They are looking for men who might consider servicing others. Wake up folks.

Another observation:

This "training" had a strange propensity to repeat some of the "processes". When time is short, that cannot be an accident. The first night they lined us up and blindfolded us and made us hold hands to march into the big lodge to come face the members.

They did the exact same thing the next night.....except this time they had us take off our clothes. Hmmmm.

The first night they had us close our eyes and listen to a reading of one of the Grimm's Fairy tales Iron John that had lots ofman boy imagery and conquering hero stuff....yada yada yada....

On Sunday, the creepy leader had us close our eyes and listen to the exact same story except this time our clothes were off and after the story they wanted us to hold hands and dance around naked again......see a pattern? They attach the nudity to something you've already done before so you'll be psychologically more apt to go along. (I had spotted the pattern already and said "check please" by Sunday.

Now.....I may not be a nuero surgeon, but I guarantee you noone from this outfit has a prayer of ever outwitting me. I deal with huge amounts of money every day and compete with far foxier Wall Street sneaks to win for my clients. I eat schmucks like these MKP dolts for lunch.

The deal with MKP is this:

It is just vague enough so that people can get many different things from it. There are some folks who I am sure actually dofindsome clarity and direction. There are some that find some catharsis. There are somethat find something to belong to..........those are all things for public consumption.

But if you follow the money and the actions you can see another purpose that meets a need. It provides an outlet with built in cover for men in the closet. This is the angle I have not seen discussed in all these pages. but I would bet a large amount of money that its true.

There are plenty of cheaper ways to get good therapy.
There are plenty of ways to make friends
There are plenty of ways to vent emotionally and physically
Now granted, there are men who will pay money for these benefits.....but not as much as MKP draws in.....in't ain't that good in these areas......so what is the other demand that they are meeting with supply? Here it is:


There just ARE NOT that many ways for a closeted man to scratch his secret itch with privacy and plausible deniability.....This may not be the only service they provide, but I guarantee you it is at least partly an unstated service with strong demand and few competitors.

Really quite brilliant, when you think about it.
It has all the elements you need to maintain secrecy, maintain demand, maintain supply and provide ample plausible deniability.

But if anyone doubts my asessment, consider this:

They talk about about a life of integrity, honesty and pride, but they lie to you to get you in camp, they hide all these suprises from you and spring weird suprises on you in sneaky ways and then tell you to keep it all secret from everyone including your wife. They tell you this is necessary because they don't want to "ruin the experience for others".....my ass. They keep it a secret because not as many would go if they advertised it as a strip club for closeted men. The IRS would strip them of their tax exempt status, and everyone would know the little secret that I'd say 40%-60% of the membership hides.